Shams: Fred VanVleet has agreed to a four-year, $85M deal to re-sign with the Toronto Raptors

[Steelo Green]

Then go enjoy being a fan of any one of those franchises on their boards. You will not be missed.

I think we have a good core and a better outlook than half of the ones you mentioned.

You mentioned 11. Which is better than 18 teams. Which is above the exact average. Again you’re more than welcome to go any of their boards and be a miserable fan there. I’ll stay here enjoying this core, hope we can build and improve as we’ve constantly done for the last 8 years.

This is such a poor argument, I don't even know where to begin.

You keep changing your stance. First I listed the best of the best and you said it was stupid to argue, now you've dropped down to what, top 15 in the NBA? Not being even in the top 10 is a pretty mediocre team, you know that right. it's a 6-9 seed in the conference.

I didn't even list some teams that are arguably the same or better, Utah has a better two players than our best, Sacramento actually looks good for the future, I actually forgot Miami, and then Philly again, has a superstar.

Don't tell me to root for other teams when I am critiquing my own. This is the silliest logic. My team is not exciting to me moving forward, I should not critique them and go cheer for anther team?

You've lost the plot of your argument and its hilarious.

First - Listing those teams is stupid and trolling
Second - Okay we are just outside the leagues best
Third - We are in the top 15 so that's above average

You just keep switching goalposts whenever your original argument fails and make up a new one as you go lol.

For some reason, there's an odd juxtaposition with being miserable and critiquing your team. Being a Jays fan, its exciting to see your team build the right way, with home grown talent, whereas the Raptors have a bunch of middling talent that will be a middling playoff team at best like it was pre-Kawhi.

My seven year olds daughter literally has better reading comprehension than you but please tell me how I’m moving the goal posts. I could always use a good laugh and youre hilarious with these trolls attempts so it’s great entertainment. You keep arguing against these straw men you put up and different claims you throw around.

I think raps have a good young core with potential to be great. If I had to rank them I’d easily put them in the top 10 best situations moving forward to contend over the next 10 years. You’d prefer Sacramento, Utah, Portland, pacers, Atlanta, Philly, Denver, lal, lAc, bucks, Houston, Miami, Boston, brk, thunder and Dallas. I think you should go cheer for those teams or just bandwagon from team to team. Or stay here and entertain me with your garbage takes. I really don’t care.

I’ll enjoy cheering a management and the core we have developed mostly internally and produced the most consistent (of top 3) contention over the better part of the last decade the main part of core moving forward that we are in no immediate danger of losing.

Your 7 year old daughter*

These straw man*

I literally just told you how you moved goal posts and you just said how did I move goal posts. Instead of responding you just said “how did I do what you said what I did”.

It’s trolling, then it’s serious, then it’s trolling again which one is it, have you decided or when you don’t have an answer you just jump back when you don’t know how to respond.

We have not put a top 3 team over the better part of a decade lol. Are you really going to say that.

Anyways - discussing with you is a comical waste of time.

[Steelo Green]

How's it a poor argument? He just said we have an above average core. You're trying to make it a bad argument by literally strawmanning him lmao and now that you got dumpstered you lack the awareness to see it

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using RealGM mobile app

Uhh, no.

That’s why the joining in is hilarious.

He said that me listing 5 better cores which are easily better to start was a troll, then I said let me delve deeper and there’s probably almost 10-15. His OP saying that we have one of the best cores locked up for years to come, which again, isn’t true. We have a mediocre code - no matter how much everyone wants to spin it. I listed off 10+ cores that most would take.

Once again - when Kyle is done/gone is OG, Siakam and Fred really that great.

But yeah, everything is great for us moving forward, let’s pretend a superstar is running to join us. This place is a joke. People have stopped reading and just are ready to be cult like in their support for Masai.

[Clay Davis]

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using RealGM mobile app

Uhh, no.

That’s why the joining in is hilarious.

He said that me listing 5 better cores which are easily better to start was a troll, then I said let me delve deeper and there’s probably almost 10-15. His OP saying that we have one of the best cores locked up for years to come, which again, isn’t true. We have a mediocre code - no matter how much everyone wants to spin it. I listed off 10+ cores that most would take.

Once again - when Kyle is done/gone is OG, Siakam and Fred really that great.

But yeah, everything is great for us moving forward, let’s pretend a superstar is running to join us. This place is a joke. People have stopped reading and just are ready to be cult like in their support for Masai.

I read the original post. He just said it was a good young core and that there are some that are better. You drew some arbitrary lines since you don't like the definition of 'above average'.

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[Valard]

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using RealGM mobile app

Uhh, no.

That’s why the joining in is hilarious.

He said that me listing 5 better cores which are easily better to start was a troll, then I said let me delve deeper and there’s probably almost 10-15. His OP saying that we have one of the best cores locked up for years to come, which again, isn’t true. We have a mediocre code - no matter how much everyone wants to spin it. I listed off 10+ cores that most would take.

Once again - when Kyle is done/gone is OG, Siakam and Fred really that great.

But yeah, everything is great for us moving forward, let’s pretend a superstar is running to join us. This place is a joke. People have stopped reading and just are ready to be cult like in their support for Masai.

I agree. When Kyle is gone they will be garbage! This year when Kyle went down this scrub core only went 12-2 with wins over LA, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Utah, and the Blazers... to name a few. In nearly all instances they were led by Siakam, VV, and Powell. This core is trash and could not, I repeat, COULD NOT be one of the top teams with a top flight free agent signing.

[Lukeem]

What?

I literally said 5 cores to start and then he said oh that’s a troll, and then all of a sudden came down to we are just above average in the end, coming down from his high horse of it was a troll to list better cores than ours.

This place has a serious comprehension issue and then anyone who has any critique, they rush to defend the people who have no idea what they’re saying.

He spent 10 posts telling me OG was signed for two years which is factually incorrect and then switched to “well I guarantee he will be here”, which is a different argument entirely.

If you guys don’t understand - I suggest not thumping your chest with hubris when you’re just doubling down on falsehood and incorrectness because negativity hurts your feelings so much lol. It’s hilarious.

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using RealGM mobile app

Uhh, no.

That’s why the joining in is hilarious.

He said that me listing 5 better cores which are easily better to start was a troll, then I said let me delve deeper and there’s probably almost 10-15. His OP saying that we have one of the best cores locked up for years to come, which again, isn’t true. We have a mediocre code - no matter how much everyone wants to spin it. I listed off 10+ cores that most would take.

Once again - when Kyle is done/gone is OG, Siakam and Fred really that great.

But yeah, everything is great for us moving forward, let’s pretend a superstar is running to join us. This place is a joke. People have stopped reading and just are ready to be cult like in their support for Masai.

The “above average” was from the cores you listed that were better, which I stated I disagreed with half of them.

You arguing with your own straw men and contradicting yourself.

Thanks for making this thread comical.

[Vorticity]

''I'm excited about what we've got,'' VanVleet said. ''I think we're kind of headed back in a direction where we were pre-Kawhi, where people are overlooking us again - which is not a bad place to be in. So, we've got a lot of work to do and we've got to get a lot better as individuals. We'll roll out there and see what we can do. I'm excited. I can't wait to get back to work.''

https://sports.yahoo.com/vanvleet-says-hes-excited-raptors-time-tampa-213736331--nba.html

[douggood]

Confirmed: Fred VanVleet's deal dips to a low of $19.7 million for 2021-22

[casual_raps_fan]

Watch on YouTube

[casual_raps_fan]

Ok there's 5 cores better. He was just saying we're above average and are good. He wasn't saying the best. You're making a mountain out a molehill

Sent from my ASUS_X00PD using RealGM mobile app

Uhh, no.

That’s why the joining in is hilarious.

He said that me listing 5 better cores which are easily better to start was a troll, then I said let me delve deeper and there’s probably almost 10-15. His OP saying that we have one of the best cores locked up for years to come, which again, isn’t true. We have a mediocre code - no matter how much everyone wants to spin it. I listed off 10+ cores that most would take.

Once again - when Kyle is done/gone is OG, Siakam and Fred really that great.

But yeah, everything is great for us moving forward, let’s pretend a superstar is running to join us. This place is a joke. People have stopped reading and just are ready to be cult like in their support for Masai.

I agree. When Kyle is gone they will be garbage! This year when Kyle went down this scrub core only went 12-2 with wins over LA, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Utah, and the Blazers... to name a few. In nearly all instances they were led by Siakam, VV, and Powell. This core is trash and could not, I repeat, COULD NOT be one of the top teams with a top flight free agent signing.

[Steelo Green]

People using such a small sample size lol. Let’s see an 82 game season. But nevermind 13 game Bargs is a superstar!

[Valard]

Vs the make believe sample size you are using?

[Steelo Green]

Vs the make believe sample size you are using?

Yes, Fred, Pascal, OG, one mediocre all-star and two role players, great core.

Pascal fell off this year versus last year in a different role, but hey, when this happens don't pretend you knew, just like when people were all excited about Demar and his 50 win seasons of worthlessness and argued ad nauseum that that core could do it.

[lebron stopper]

Vs the make believe sample size you are using?

In principle, the larger the sample size, the more useful it is. Small sample sizes often carry a ton of variance, which makes them unreliable. So an 82 game sample will definitely give you more reliable data than a 14 game sample.

Here's another example, from the link:



See how a smaller sample (lower number of trials) is further away from the average, and a larger sample (greater number of trials) is very close to it.

[douggood]

Vs the make believe sample size you are using?

Yes, Fred, Pascal, OG, one mediocre all-star and two role players, great core.

Pascal fell off this year versus last year in a different role, but hey, when this happens don't pretend you knew, just like when people were all excited about Demar and his 50 win seasons of worthlessness and argued ad nauseum that that core could do it.

fell off?????? the guy made all nba 2nd team

[Gold Dragon]

Why isn’t Steelo Green on everyone’s ignore list. I cannot recall a single post that isn’t a negative troll post.

On the topic of sample sizes, we have 82 games of Fred being a regular season starter, 11 games as a playoff starter.

112 regular season games coming off the bench, most of those leading what was considered the best bench in the league and possibly better than our starting lineup for much of the 17-18 season. We also have 30 playoff games coming off the bench, much of it as a 6th man and in crunch time. Yes it started off terrible but by the end he earned a Finals MVP vote.

And his current contract averages 21M which is what you are getting for a quality starter like Fred and Brogdon. Both are entering their prime years with proven in demand skills in the modern NBA and the potential to make an all star game at some point in their careers. That is what 20-25M gets you in today’s cap.

[Steelo Green]

Vs the make believe sample size you are using?

Yes, Fred, Pascal, OG, one mediocre all-star and two role players, great core.

Pascal fell off this year versus last year in a different role, but hey, when this happens don't pretend you knew, just like when people were all excited about Demar and his 50 win seasons of worthlessness and argued ad nauseum that that core could do it.

fell off?????? the guy made all nba 2nd team

Making the all second team, did that make you feel any better with regard to his second half and playoffs?

Also - Pascals efficiency dropped more than any player last year and the others were all for different teams.

Yes - Pascal in an increased role fell off, and his hot start cooled down as defenders figured out his game and lack of a shot.

[Steelo Green]

Why isn’t Steelo Green on everyone’s ignore list. I cannot recall a single post that isn’t a negative troll post.

On the topic of sample sizes, we have 82 games of Fred being a regular season starter, 11 games as a playoff starter.

112 regular season games coming off the bench, most of those leading what was considered the best bench in the league and possibly better than our starting lineup for much of the 17-18 season. We also have 30 playoff games coming off the bench, much of it as a 6th man and in crunch time. Yes it started off terrible but by the end he earned a Finals MVP vote.

And his current contract averages 21M which is what you are getting for a quality starter like Fred and Brogdon. Both are entering their prime years with proven in demand skills in the modern NBA and the potential to make an all star game at some point in their careers. That is what 20-25M gets you in today’s cap.

It’s hilarious that I answer everyone with facts and correct points and it gets thrown around as trolling because people don’t agree with it.

Negativity is not the same as criticism and if you don’t have an answer for it, don’t put me in this troll paradigm. Either answer it or leave it entirely. If you don’t have the ability to answer with facts then why not just leave it, it would be a better showing of your intellect.

I haven’t even discussed Fred’s contract, which is the funny thing. Overpaid but tradable given the contracts out there - and yes overpaid because he plays the most saturated position in the league and is paid to be a star when he’s a three point shooter who has mediocre play making ability and has no scoring ability inside the two point arc.

He’s in the 10th percentile for finishing from two point range, and in the same percentile for finishing at the basket.

Don’t list APG either because that doesn’t show a good playmaker.

Pertaining to those other roles, yeah he’s a great sixth man and bench player, no one is denying he is a bad player but if he’s your 2-3 best player, you’re not going to be a very good team for very long, but let us see a prolonged time of Fred when the true star of this team leaves.

Fred FYI against Boston shot 10 points below league average efficiency, and if you think TS dropping in the playoffs is standard, it actually statistically increases very slightly. And again - Fred during the regular season is still, below average league efficiency.

Now tell me the myriad of trolling in there.

[kleatius_01]

Hey Steelo, I'm curious how many games you think this core that is 10-15th in the NBA will win this year? Where do you think Raps will rank this season?

[GLF]

Guys, question, how do you put someone on mute/ignore? Is there a way to do that on this forum?

[Steelo Green]

Hey Steelo, I'm curious how many games you think this core that is 10-15th in the NBA will win this year? Where do you think Raps will rank this season?

Depends on how Kyle goes but I’m guessing they take a step back.

Probably 5-8 seed depending on injuries.

Pascals step back and looking completely figured out on offense is a big part of it.

I talked about the mediocre core without Kyle so if he maintains his play from last year we should win 50.

My core excluded him because I don’t think he keeps this up for long and this is his final year as a Raptor.

Would love to be wrong though.