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History tells us that if you start the season with a 1-6, 97.7 percent of the time you will miss the playoffs, 2.3 percent of the time you make the playoffs, and 7 percent of the time you’ll make what is now a play-in seed spot. Not a lot of hope to gather here if you’re a Raptors fan.
T-d0t wrote:I think Raptors FO will not let this team be .500God Squad wrote:Metallikid wrote:
I see them being around .500%. That's nowhere near a top 5 pick.
Being .500 makes you happy as a Raptor fan? I'll take the bet because I see moves being made to make sure we bottom out and if we don't make moves I just see a lackluster roster without any cohesion.
They are letting this play out right now but I would bet that players on this team are going to start being showcased and eventually traded.
MixxSRC wrote:https://raptorsrapture.com/2021/01/08/toronto-raptors-past-years/
Toronto Raptors playoff chances? Teams who’ve made the playoffs starting 1-6 in past 20 yearsHistory tells us that if you start the season with a 1-6, 97.7 percent of the time you will miss the playoffs, 2.3 percent of the time you make the playoffs, and 7 percent of the time you’ll make what is now a play-in seed spot. Not a lot of hope to gather here if you’re a Raptors fan.
Metallikid wrote:T-d0t wrote:I think Raptors FO will not let this team be .500God Squad wrote:Being .500 makes you happy as a Raptor fan? I'll take the bet because I see moves being made to make sure we bottom out and if we don't make moves I just see a lackluster roster without any cohesion.
They are letting this play out right now but I would bet that players on this team are going to start being showcased and eventually traded.
Like who? Because I would also guarantee that unless Kyle directly asks for a trade, which he won't, there is not a single solitary chance Masai moves him. He won't move Kyle, or Fred, or Pascal, so who exactly is going to be showcased and eventually traded? Norm? OG? You've got yourself believing a pipe dream. And you don't even want us bottoming out, believe me. If we did it would mean we're losing Masai, Bobby, Dan, everyone.
Except we're missing Kawhi, Gasol and Serge. Not sure if you're trolling.Metallikid wrote:MixxSRC wrote:https://raptorsrapture.com/2021/01/08/toronto-raptors-past-years/
Toronto Raptors playoff chances? Teams who’ve made the playoffs starting 1-6 in past 20 yearsHistory tells us that if you start the season with a 1-6, 97.7 percent of the time you will miss the playoffs, 2.3 percent of the time you make the playoffs, and 7 percent of the time you’ll make what is now a play-in seed spot. Not a lot of hope to gather here if you’re a Raptors fan.
We've got the core from the 6th team to ever come back down 0-2 in the conference finals and the 6th team to beat both #1 seeds on the way to the title. We've beaten a lot worse odds than that.
T-d0t wrote:Metallikid wrote:T-d0t wrote:I think Raptors FO will not let this team be .500
They are letting this play out right now but I would bet that players on this team are going to start being showcased and eventually traded.
Like who? Because I would also guarantee that unless Kyle directly asks for a trade, which he won't, there is not a single solitary chance Masai moves him. He won't move Kyle, or Fred, or Pascal, so who exactly is going to be showcased and eventually traded? Norm? OG? You've got yourself believing a pipe dream. And you don't even want us bottoming out, believe me. If we did it would mean we're losing Masai, Bobby, Dan, everyone.
Firstly, we don't need to "bottom out" we need to be in a position where we can get a top5 pick.
Secondly, if we are a bottom team at seasons end, I have a hard time believing that MLSE will fire any of the core FO. This is the same MLSE that let Leafs FO tank for Austin Matthews because they were reinsured that it was a necessary evil.
As for the potential players being showcased I would say Lowry & Norm because they are vets that are on expiring deals and could help a contending team. Boucher is a potential sell high but I doubt it. TD, because of his legal situation, contract situation and the fact that we have so many guards could also be traded.
alienchild wrote:Again, I hope the basketball gods give us the 14th pick in the draft. I hope OG asks for a trade, Birch signs elsewhere and GTJ signs an offer sheet and Raptors don't match. Frankly Masai is dead to me.
Mark_83 wrote:If we get a late first for Kyle, who are some of the players you guys have interest in taking?
Of the guys I've seen so far I'm intrigued by:
Scottie Lewis
Chris Duarte
Charles Bassey
Keyontae Johnson
Corey Kispert
Ibou Dianko Badji
MixxSRC wrote:The fact that New Orleans Pelicans lost Davis and then next year won the lottery even though they were not Top 5 bottom teams is so suspect. Wonder if Silver can help us out lol
PrinceAli wrote:MixxSRC wrote:The fact that New Orleans Pelicans lost Davis and then next year won the lottery even though they were not Top 5 bottom teams is so suspect. Wonder if Silver can help us out lol
And New Orleans getting the 1st pick to even get AD right after CP3 was gone. And cavs with Kyrie when Lebron left. Almost feels like a trend...
Metallikid wrote:T-d0t wrote:Metallikid wrote:
Like who? Because I would also guarantee that unless Kyle directly asks for a trade, which he won't, there is not a single solitary chance Masai moves him. He won't move Kyle, or Fred, or Pascal, so who exactly is going to be showcased and eventually traded? Norm? OG? You've got yourself believing a pipe dream. And you don't even want us bottoming out, believe me. If we did it would mean we're losing Masai, Bobby, Dan, everyone.
Firstly, we don't need to "bottom out" we need to be in a position where we can get a top5 pick.
Secondly, if we are a bottom team at seasons end, I have a hard time believing that MLSE will fire any of the core FO. This is the same MLSE that let Leafs FO tank for Austin Matthews because they were reinsured that it was a necessary evil.
As for the potential players being showcased I would say Lowry & Norm because they are vets that are on expiring deals and could help a contending team. Boucher is a potential sell high but I doubt it. TD, because of his legal situation, contract situation and the fact that we have so many guards could also be traded.
Everything you are saying is self-contradictory; a top 5 pick means you had a bottom five record and that is by definition bottoming out. If you think the roster as it currently exists can get a top 5 pick then there's no way we're in the position as a franchise for any sort of 'quick rebuild,' we would have to do a full tear-down. So of course MLSE wouldn't be firing anybody - they wouldn't want to be a part of our franchise anymore you dingbat!! You think great executives are going to stay through five plus years of losing? Or maybe you haven't paid attention to our FO's MO that has always been anti-tanking. Kyle is making more than 30 million, he cannot be traded so easily and he means much more to our franchise than to anyone else. We would not get worthwhile value for him. It would be seen badly by him and by players across the League to trade Kyle like that, not to mention you guys in your tWo bubble don't even realize that most Raptors fans would CRUCIFY Masai for pursuing a move like that. Norm has virtually no value at the moment he is underplaying his $10 mil salary.
I've looked at this very logically. The best option is to upgrade our roster using draft assets and remaining competitive. For every Tracy, Vince, Chris and DeMar we've had there's been two Stoudamires, Cambys, Benders, Araujos, Villeneuvas, Bargnanis, Valanciunas, Rosses, Poeltls.
Mark_83 wrote:If we get a late first for Kyle, who are some of the players you guys have interest in taking?
Of the guys I've seen so far I'm intrigued by:
Scottie Lewis
Chris Duarte
Charles Bassey
Keyontae Johnson
Corey Kispert
Ibou Dianko Badji
PrinceAli wrote:MixxSRC wrote:The fact that New Orleans Pelicans lost Davis and then next year won the lottery even though they were not Top 5 bottom teams is so suspect. Wonder if Silver can help us out lol
And New Orleans getting the 1st pick to even get AD right after CP3 was gone. And cavs with Kyrie when Lebron left. Almost feels like a trend...
billy_hoyle wrote:Metallikid wrote:T-d0t wrote:
Firstly, we don't need to "bottom out" we need to be in a position where we can get a top5 pick.
Secondly, if we are a bottom team at seasons end, I have a hard time believing that MLSE will fire any of the core FO. This is the same MLSE that let Leafs FO tank for Austin Matthews because they were reinsured that it was a necessary evil.
As for the potential players being showcased I would say Lowry & Norm because they are vets that are on expiring deals and could help a contending team. Boucher is a potential sell high but I doubt it. TD, because of his legal situation, contract situation and the fact that we have so many guards could also be traded.
Everything you are saying is self-contradictory; a top 5 pick means you had a bottom five record and that is by definition bottoming out. If you think the roster as it currently exists can get a top 5 pick then there's no way we're in the position as a franchise for any sort of 'quick rebuild,' we would have to do a full tear-down. So of course MLSE wouldn't be firing anybody - they wouldn't want to be a part of our franchise anymore you dingbat!! You think great executives are going to stay through five plus years of losing? Or maybe you haven't paid attention to our FO's MO that has always been anti-tanking. Kyle is making more than 30 million, he cannot be traded so easily and he means much more to our franchise than to anyone else. We would not get worthwhile value for him. It would be seen badly by him and by players across the League to trade Kyle like that, not to mention you guys in your tWo bubble don't even realize that most Raptors fans would CRUCIFY Masai for pursuing a move like that. Norm has virtually no value at the moment he is underplaying his $10 mil salary.
I've looked at this very logically. The best option is to upgrade our roster using draft assets and remaining competitive. For every Tracy, Vince, Chris and DeMar we've had there's been two Stoudamires, Cambys, Benders, Araujos, Villeneuvas, Bargnanis, Valanciunas, Rosses, Poeltls.
I couldn't disagree more with this stance.
You don't need to bottom out to get a bottom 5 pick. There has been a flattening of lottery odds for this exact reason. Add that this is a shortened season where we have started way slower than expected and we might be getting a high pick while also not being that far off from being a second round team.
Couple that with the max slot and the massive hole at C in our line-up. These things are all working to Help us quickly rebuild.
We have 3 players from a championship level core (FVV, Siakam and OG). I understand we are missing the superstar talent from the championship team recipe, but still having two-way complimentary starters is HUGE. I think this is suppressing current wins (obviously), but will enable a massive jump forward.
We have all our picks. We have veterans to trade off for more picks (Lowry, Norm).
And something that has not been discussed is the double draft next year. I think it plays right into a quick rebuild plan. We will hopefully draft high this year, then plug our center hole with our max slot, then vault into mediocrity with a young potential star trying to integrate into a veteran starting lineup.
If we are mediocre, we will have a mid teens pick, IMO this is incredibly valuable for a double draft with high schoolers. Our scouting staff will be put to the test, but I'd bet quite a bit there will be all-stars drafted in the teens and later in a double draft class.
Psubs wrote:Mark_83 wrote:If we get a late first for Kyle, who are some of the players you guys have interest in taking?
Of the guys I've seen so far I'm intrigued by:
Scottie Lewis
Chris Duarte
Charles Bassey
Keyontae Johnson
Corey Kispert
Ibou Dianko Badji
Late 1st is like drafting in 2020. So many possibilties.
Bassey (Mitchell Robinson)
Kispert (Joe Harris)
Kai Jones (Myles Turner)
Dosunmu
Garza
Jokubaitis
Daishen Nix
Butler
Franz Wagner (Mauritz's bro is like Mike Dunleavy Jr)
Clay Davis wrote:COMPOSED ONLY OF THE COOLEST WOMEN AND THE HOTTEST GUYS, THE TORONTO RAPTORS REALGM BOARD HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN FOR ITS HIGH-QUALITY DISCUSSION, PASSIONATE LOYALTY, TEMPERATE CELEBRATIONS OF VICTORY, AND GRACE IN DEFEAT.
Metallikid wrote:billy_hoyle wrote:Metallikid wrote:
Everything you are saying is self-contradictory; a top 5 pick means you had a bottom five record and that is by definition bottoming out. If you think the roster as it currently exists can get a top 5 pick then there's no way we're in the position as a franchise for any sort of 'quick rebuild,' we would have to do a full tear-down. So of course MLSE wouldn't be firing anybody - they wouldn't want to be a part of our franchise anymore you dingbat!! You think great executives are going to stay through five plus years of losing? Or maybe you haven't paid attention to our FO's MO that has always been anti-tanking. Kyle is making more than 30 million, he cannot be traded so easily and he means much more to our franchise than to anyone else. We would not get worthwhile value for him. It would be seen badly by him and by players across the League to trade Kyle like that, not to mention you guys in your tWo bubble don't even realize that most Raptors fans would CRUCIFY Masai for pursuing a move like that. Norm has virtually no value at the moment he is underplaying his $10 mil salary.
I've looked at this very logically. The best option is to upgrade our roster using draft assets and remaining competitive. For every Tracy, Vince, Chris and DeMar we've had there's been two Stoudamires, Cambys, Benders, Araujos, Villeneuvas, Bargnanis, Valanciunas, Rosses, Poeltls.
I couldn't disagree more with this stance.
You don't need to bottom out to get a bottom 5 pick. There has been a flattening of lottery odds for this exact reason. Add that this is a shortened season where we have started way slower than expected and we might be getting a high pick while also not being that far off from being a second round team.
Couple that with the max slot and the massive hole at C in our line-up. These things are all working to Help us quickly rebuild.
We have 3 players from a championship level core (FVV, Siakam and OG). I understand we are missing the superstar talent from the championship team recipe, but still having two-way complimentary starters is HUGE. I think this is suppressing current wins (obviously), but will enable a massive jump forward.
We have all our picks. We have veterans to trade off for more picks (Lowry, Norm).
And something that has not been discussed is the double draft next year. I think it plays right into a quick rebuild plan. We will hopefully draft high this year, then plug our center hole with our max slot, then vault into mediocrity with a young potential star trying to integrate into a veteran starting lineup.
If we are mediocre, we will have a mid teens pick, IMO this is incredibly valuable for a double draft with high schoolers. Our scouting staff will be put to the test, but I'd bet quite a bit there will be all-stars drafted in the teens and later in a double draft class.
So your assertion is that we won't be bad enough to have a bottom five record, but that we'll get something like the 8th pick and move up? That's a total crapshoot.
And our capspace isn't **** worth dick if we're a bad team without Kyle Lowry, and him and Norm can't be moved so easily like everyone here apparently thinks they can. Sacrificing our chemistry for some crappy picks that won't even be developed by the time Pascal and Fred's contracts are over is a ludicrous strategy. High picks do not fit our timeline, and we aren't likely to get one in the first place.
You are giving yourself so many charitable assumptions that honestly, it is just as reasonable for me to suggest that we should do my move for Vucevic and that a couple years from now we'll be able to trade OG (18 mil) or Fred (21 mil) and Nikola (22 mil) for someone on a supermax deal as anything you are saying.
Reeko wrote:Psubs wrote:Mark_83 wrote:If we get a late first for Kyle, who are some of the players you guys have interest in taking?
Of the guys I've seen so far I'm intrigued by:
Scottie Lewis
Chris Duarte
Charles Bassey
Keyontae Johnson
Corey Kispert
Ibou Dianko Badji
Late 1st is like drafting in 2020. So many possibilties.
Bassey (Mitchell Robinson)
Kispert (Joe Harris)
Kai Jones (Myles Turner)
Dosunmu
Garza
Jokubaitis
Daishen Nix
Butler
Franz Wagner (Mauritz's bro is like Mike Dunleavy Jr)
I'm seeing Bassey being mocked in the lottery, but he might fall like Precious Achiuwa did. I like Kispert, I also like Gonzaga's center Timme, he's got a really crafty game although I'm not sure how it will translate at the next level.
Another guy we should keep an eye on is Lithuanian big man Azuola Tubelis from Arizona, he's considered the best European prospect to go to college in America. He's 6'11 and he's hitting 3's at 36% clip, averaging 11 and 6 in 21 mpg.