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WaltFrazier wrote:kirkwood wrote:Has anyone even seen or heard from management, what management?
Masai speech coming soon: We will win in Toronto.
Just may take longer than we thought
Duffman100 wrote:ItsDanger wrote:Duffman100 wrote:
Because they aren't coming out and making public statements, you think they aren't actively doing their jobs?
Given the product on the court, it's seriously in question right now. If their record was 15-30 or worse, saying nothing to the fanbase is disrespectful.
What do you want them to say? What can they say that doesn't potentially hamstring them in conversations around acquisitions and moves.
The only thing that would come out is "We're not happy and we're figuring things out" which would be so vague that would bring more frustration.
The time for FO public statements is after the season or after they've made acquisitions that show their intended path.
DelAbbot wrote:Good points.dagger wrote:There are a lot of possibilities between "blow it up" and "stand pat", a lot of shades of grey between white and black. The Raptors do have some nice assets, and you have to manage those well. The salary cap/tax line are heading up, and are expected to take a dramatic leap in the summer of 2025. You have to manage against that as well as an organization. I mean, Fred at $25 million next season might be very rich, but if the cap rises to $200 million and the tax line to about $220 million in 2025-26, and he's two years into a new four year deal, that's a different outlook - he can be traded for backup work at that point on such a contract. For this trade deadline, there is a question of what do you get in return that would constitute good asset management? How many 2023 or 2024 picks could you get from teams - 2027 or 2029 picks have less value and stretch out a retooling/rebuilding. Whose picks are you getting? A late first round, or a mid-to-late lottery pick. Big difference.
Teams get seduced by tanking, but you look at some of them, and rebuilding has been a long, long journey of terrible teams. Think five years or more unless they get lottery luck. And you need to hope you not only draft well, but your foundational picks don't lose big time from injuries. Philly lost the first two years of Joel Embiid. That helped make the process that much longer. Now, Detroit has lost a year of Cade Cunningham's development. There are just so many things to consider heading into this deadline, including the possibility that there would be better trade offers on draft night and at the start of free agency this summer.
I doubt Masai and Bobby will bring the same team back next season, and they know that now. Tipping their hand about their intentions serves no purpose.
(As an aside, I wonder what MLSE plans to do to keep the season ticket base and current pricing intact. They have brought prices up to a level that reflects their belief this team would be at least a dark horse contender. They might have to not only freeze prices if they go into some sort of retooling, they might have to go back to offering some real perks to season ticket holders to hang on.)
But you dont think Fred knows salary cap is going up and thus adjust his demands accordingly? He said the baseline he is willing to accept is 130M over 4 years which is 32.5M per year.
dagger wrote:DelAbbot wrote:Good points.dagger wrote:There are a lot of possibilities between "blow it up" and "stand pat", a lot of shades of grey between white and black. The Raptors do have some nice assets, and you have to manage those well. The salary cap/tax line are heading up, and are expected to take a dramatic leap in the summer of 2025. You have to manage against that as well as an organization. I mean, Fred at $25 million next season might be very rich, but if the cap rises to $200 million and the tax line to about $220 million in 2025-26, and he's two years into a new four year deal, that's a different outlook - he can be traded for backup work at that point on such a contract. For this trade deadline, there is a question of what do you get in return that would constitute good asset management? How many 2023 or 2024 picks could you get from teams - 2027 or 2029 picks have less value and stretch out a retooling/rebuilding. Whose picks are you getting? A late first round, or a mid-to-late lottery pick. Big difference.
Teams get seduced by tanking, but you look at some of them, and rebuilding has been a long, long journey of terrible teams. Think five years or more unless they get lottery luck. And you need to hope you not only draft well, but your foundational picks don't lose big time from injuries. Philly lost the first two years of Joel Embiid. That helped make the process that much longer. Now, Detroit has lost a year of Cade Cunningham's development. There are just so many things to consider heading into this deadline, including the possibility that there would be better trade offers on draft night and at the start of free agency this summer.
I doubt Masai and Bobby will bring the same team back next season, and they know that now. Tipping their hand about their intentions serves no purpose.
(As an aside, I wonder what MLSE plans to do to keep the season ticket base and current pricing intact. They have brought prices up to a level that reflects their belief this team would be at least a dark horse contender. They might have to not only freeze prices if they go into some sort of retooling, they might have to go back to offering some real perks to season ticket holders to hang on.)
But you dont think Fred knows salary cap is going up and thus adjust his demands accordingly? He said the baseline he is willing to accept is 130M over 4 years which is 32.5M per year.
I think at the end of the day, Fred may have to adjust his sights, not only in talks with Masai but with other teams. The guard position has changed over the years. Guards are taller, more athletic, and they are an easier find that ever. The mock drafts currently have two tremendous PG prospects in the top four slots - Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson. In the end, Fred may go to free agency this summer and find the teams that could use him now don't have the cap space or the stomach to pay him what he wants. He may also find Masai doesn't care to pay him what he might have been ready to offer last summer. That's what Fred and his agent will have to ponder as soon as the season is over - if he isn't traded at the deadline.
ItsDanger wrote:The worst thing you could do is charge higher prices for an increasingly inferior product. That is business suicide. Now I get the premise here that the higher prices means they want to contend annually. But the MLSE propaganda machine can only do so much. They have the benefit of having a big market here BUT has it really been tested for long period. Serious action was taken in the dark days of 2011 when attendance actually tanked for first time ever for this franchise. I don't see evidence of the hard core fan in current Raps fanbase. Loyal consumer maybe.
ItsDanger wrote:The worst thing you could do is charge higher prices for an increasingly inferior product. That is business suicide. Now I get the premise here that the higher prices means they want to contend annually. But the MLSE propaganda machine can only do so much. They have the benefit of having a big market here BUT has it really been tested for long period. Serious action was taken in the dark days of 2011 when attendance actually tanked for first time ever for this franchise. I don't see evidence of the hard core fan in current Raps fanbase. Loyal consumer maybe.
YogurtProducer wrote:It’s really not worth it Johnny. Somehow the entire league improved so much it’s accounted for us losing 11 more games (if we continue this pace). We’re the only team who didn’t improve.
Also lol at saying half a season isn’t a small sample. We’ve seen teams (like us) go 27-14 in a half season sample (literally last year) but I don’t see anyone claiming we were a 54 win team.
We certainly not a 55 win team, but we’re also not a 35 win team. I don’t know what to say to anyone If they truly think we’re as bad as our record shows
Brinbe wrote:management def giving them every chance to turn it around lol.
will be interesting to see how they react now that time's running short and their hand is being forced.
Brinbe wrote:management def giving them every chance to turn it around lol.
will be interesting to see how they react now that time's running short and their hand is being forced.
ChillPill wrote:Blowing it all up isn't a viable strategy, in my opinion. I'm just imagining the timeline. Next year having Scottie in his 3rd year, with a glut of other super young and raw players. They'd be trying to learn how to play in the NBA without the guidance and sheltering older players would give them. It'd be chaos.
The year after would be much the same. Another glut of rookies. There'd be a crop of players going into their second year but growth isn't linear. Look at Scottie this year. A good percentage of them would fail.
In barely any time, the pitchforks from the fans and media would come out. Imagine all the vitriol Fred is getting, directed at the young players. I mean, Scottie even got it a bit this year. There'd be all this added pressure and distraction, when development just takes time.
Blowing it up would give hope, that's all. The actuality would be far worse, an endless cycle of mediocrity. Look at the bad teams in the league who are at the bottom year after year after year.
ChillPill wrote:Blowing it all up isn't a viable strategy, in my opinion. I'm just imagining the timeline. Next year having Scottie in his 3rd year, with a glut of other super young and raw players. They'd be trying to learn how to play in the NBA without the guidance and sheltering older players would give them. It'd be chaos.
The year after would be much the same. Another glut of rookies. There'd be a crop of players going into their second year but growth isn't linear. Look at Scottie this year. A good percentage of them would fail.
In barely any time, the pitchforks from the fans and media would come out. Imagine all the vitriol Fred is getting, directed at the young players. I mean, Scottie even got it a bit this year. There'd be all this added pressure and distraction, when development just takes time.
Blowing it up would give hope, that's all. The actuality would be far worse, an endless cycle of mediocrity. Look at the bad teams in the league who are at the bottom year after year after year.
WaltFrazier wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:kirkwood wrote:Has anyone even seen or heard from management, what management?
Masai speech coming soon: We will win in Toronto.
Just may take longer than we thought
That's it Will, just ease back into it with some And-1s. Don't post till you're ready. We're gonna make this work.