2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[BoyzNTheHood]

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[Syd-TK3]

That dallas pick is as good as gone already unless it's top 2

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

LOL you guys are busting a nut over me saying Wallace has a Butler-like profile when it was in response to Psubs claim that Cissoko has a Butler-like profile. Time to top up your cbd sprays boys.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

That's the kid we need to figure out how to acquire. I'm encouraged enough by his offensive output this year given the circumstances but moreso when you look at what he was doing before college and how everyone has raved about his 2 way impact and outstanding character. That video really does highlight how beautiful of a stroke he has, leading me to believe he can become a very good 3 point shooter.

You want a kid with a Jimmy Butler-like profile as a prospect, Cason Wallace is him. Very pure makes off of screens with the pull up.

Don't put that out there. Butler pretty much lives at the line. Wallace really struggled to draw fouls and get into the paint. It's not a good sign for a ballhandler, period. His game is going to be more off ball/transition. Should be a good player, but there's nothing remotely close to Butler. He's a coach's pet. Butler has had issues with every coach he's played for and tried to fight Spo last year

Believe me, Wallace has all the good signs he needs to develop into a very impactful two-way player. The only reason I have even entertained the idea of other players is because I'm assuming he will now be off the board. He will never be a #1 option on offense but will likely be a very efficient 3rd option while providing lockdown defense and doing tons of little things to help his team win. Wallace is a mentally tough as nails swiss army knife guard and the best is yet to come from him.

[Dalek]

I used this interesting draft tool which does per 40 stats and advanced stats comps: https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/

Keyonte George most similar player is Cole Anthony with a 85.5 similarity in advanced stats and 89.7 similarity in per 40 numbers. I actually really like Cole Anthony who seems to like George be caught in a situation where he is playing alongside a lot of other guards. Cole was draft 15 and was the hyped prospect at UNC.

Gradey Dick had Gary Trent Jr. in that 85 similarity range in both indicators which I found kind of funny. Maybe having a 6'8 version of Gary is better.

Anthony Black per 40 had Jrue Holiday and Scottie Barnes both in the 80 similarity but advanced stats he had no relevant comparable. Black is really his own type of player.

Cason Wallace at least in advanced stats had a near 90% similar to Jrue Holiday. Sign me up!

Kobe Bufkin had a 95% similarity in advanced stats and and 89% per 40 to Tyler Herro. Considering Herro was drafted at 13 this could make sense for Toronto because of the combos he looks to be the best and Herro is a starter on a playoff team.

[mademan]

Ya im in the camp of not overthinking it if Cason Wallace drops to us. He has clear translatable skills that will make him a starter in this league at the baseline.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I tried that tool and it seems a little sketchy. Can't even search Podziemski.

Wallace is an easy pass for me, and I'm a UK fan. He should be an good player but there's too many things that guards need in the the NBA that he won't be bringing, and smaller players that struggle to shoot are going to get the ball taken out of their hand. He shouldn't go top 10 for his own sake. I would take Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly over him without blinking.

[mademan]

I tried that tool and it seems a little sketchy. Can't even search Podziemski.

Wallace is an easy pass for me, and I'm a UK fan. He should be an good player but there's too many things that guards need in the the NBA that he won't be bringing, and smaller players that struggle to shoot are going to get the ball taken out of their hand. He shouldn't go top 10 for his own sake. I would take Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly over him without blinking.

He's not coming in as a ready made shooter, but his shot doesnt really look broken.

Watch on YouTube

I think the upside is there as a shooter. That said, i dont mind people here wanting to go away from developing another players shot

[Dalek]

I tried that tool and it seems a little sketchy. Can't even search Podziemski.

Wallace is an easy pass for me, and I'm a UK fan. He should be an good player but there's too many things that guards need in the the NBA that he won't be bringing, and smaller players that struggle to shoot are going to get the ball taken out of their hand. He shouldn't go top 10 for his own sake. I would take Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly over him without blinking.

I guess Podz wasn't added because he might not have been highly ranked at the time he created the database.

That is a strong opinion. Could you elaborate on the skills Cason doesn't bring? He is 6'4 and strongly built so I could see him guarding both the 1 and 2 easily. Height is great but you have to be able to have footspeed to guard all the athletes in the NBA. I don't see how Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly are better defenders compared to a guy who is clearly one of the best POA defenders to come out in years.

I mean to me I auto draft a guy who can bring Jrue Holiday or Marcus Smart type defense who can shoot it better than both coming in.

Maybe he is not a traditional PG, but with Scottie and Pascal you don't need a guy to be ball dominant. He is a rare perfect fit.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I tried that tool and it seems a little sketchy. Can't even search Podziemski.

Wallace is an easy pass for me, and I'm a UK fan. He should be an good player but there's too many things that guards need in the the NBA that he won't be bringing, and smaller players that struggle to shoot are going to get the ball taken out of their hand. He shouldn't go top 10 for his own sake. I would take Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly over him without blinking.

He's not coming in as a ready made shooter, but his shot doesnt really look broken.

Watch on YouTube

I think the upside is there as a shooter. That said, i dont mind people here wanting to go away from developing another players shot

I watched a lot of UK, and I felt like he was just too deliberate as a shooter. He's a lot craftier around the basket than people think, but overall low scoring outputs and some absolute no shows this year. You really have to be careful because non-scoring defensive guards will bust in the lotto. I talked about the similarities to Jrue almost immediately. Would be nice to see him reach that level, but the downside is someone closer to, like, Killian Hayes or Jaylen Suggs.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't see how Podz/Cissoko/Coulibaly are better defenders compared to a guy who is clearly one of the best POA defenders to come out in years.

Not better defenders but better prospects.

I mean to me I auto draft a guy who can bring Jrue Holiday or Marcus Smart type defense who can shoot it better than both coming in.

I'm not a fan of Marcus Smart. He's still a negative on offense, still left wide open to put up 4 on 5s. Obviously if you could guarantee either at 13 that would be a lock, but range of outcomes for me is scary with a profile like that.

Maybe he is not a traditional PG, but with Scottie and Pascal you don't need a guy to be ball dominant. He is a rare perfect fit.

Don't see him as an off ball threat at this point.

[Psubs]

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It's something I've noticed about NBA. The SG position is experiencing a decline in talent similar to what the centre position went thru this past decade. Defensive centres and combo guards rarely play 30 + minutes per night. I'm leaning towards a wing @ 13 and trading into 2nd round for guard depth. (Sasser, Miles jr, Hodge)

Most teams right now are playing with a ballhandler, 3 wings and a big.

SG is like the running back in the NFL. It's easily replaceable as the size of the player is so prevalent in college and junior leagues.

[Psubs]

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... and those 3's are from NBA range or beyond.

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[ATLTimekeeper]

Overall 1/4 of > 20ppg shooters are under 6"4. League is getting bigger, so bias to bigger players.

[Backcountry]

Whomever it is, I'd rather they draft a guy who knows how to shoot now. Teach him how to play D. I keep hearing how we develop shooters but really, who have we developed who didn't already have a decent stroke? We've made Pascal, Precious and Scottie into barely acceptable 3-pt shooters. O.G. has become above average. We need a top-shelf kind of shooter, and the only way we are getting that is to draft someone who is already there (or trade for him, but this is about the draft)

So yeah, shooting. And some height. Teach him the rest of it.

[Psubs]

Whomever it is, I'd rather they draft a guy who knows how to shoot now. Teach him how to play D. I keep hearing how we develop shooters but really, who have we developed who didn't already have a decent stroke? We've made Pascal, Precious and Scottie into barely acceptable 3-pt shooters. O.G. has become above average. We need a top-shelf kind of shooter, and the only way we are getting that is to draft someone who is already there (or trade for him, but this is about the draft)

So yeah, shooting. And some height. Teach him the rest of it.

Just use the MLE on a shooter. Get Eric Gordon or someone younger if that's the direction they are going.

Or trade Boucher, Flynn or Precious for more shooting.

[Dalek]

Whomever it is, I'd rather they draft a guy who knows how to shoot now. Teach him how to play D. I keep hearing how we develop shooters but really, who have we developed who didn't already have a decent stroke? We've made Pascal, Precious and Scottie into barely acceptable 3-pt shooters. O.G. has become above average. We need a top-shelf kind of shooter, and the only way we are getting that is to draft someone who is already there (or trade for him, but this is about the draft)

So yeah, shooting. And some height. Teach him the rest of it.

I am with you on improving the shooting. To me the biggest hole is guys who get into the paint and collapse the defense. We just have not had a real at the rim threat that bends the floor.

Hopefully with a new coach(es) we have better luck on the shooting end. Guys like Juancho, Yuta, Svi all are guys who can shoot and do so on other teams but didn't do it at a high clip on Toronto. I swear they all had a lot of open looks and just couldn't make shots. I have said it many times, but Toronto needs to hire a truly elite shooting coach. Look at what Sacramento has done.

I mentioned it before, Miami always finds these good shooters who they develop into their system. Guys like Gabe Vincent, Herro, Max Strus, Duncan Robinson all could shoot it decently in college and managed to adapt to Miami's tough defensive schemes. Of course it helps to have Jimmy Butler and Bam Adebayo to anchor your team, but there is a possibility that defense can be taught. To me, it is more of an effort/focus thing so you need guys who compete.

[Dalek]

Spinella calling it a "Pro League" is a huge stretch. Damn I hate the G-League. The games are the absolute worst to watch (poorly coached, poorly officiated and a lot of these players are getting paid peanuts). These teams play like zero defense so every team is out and running getting easy transition buckets.

A league where Dalano Banton can average 30 PPG is not one I take seriously.

[Jadoogar]

Whomever it is, I'd rather they draft a guy who knows how to shoot now. Teach him how to play D. I keep hearing how we develop shooters but really, who have we developed who didn't already have a decent stroke? We've made Pascal, Precious and Scottie into barely acceptable 3-pt shooters. O.G. has become above average. We need a top-shelf kind of shooter, and the only way we are getting that is to draft someone who is already there (or trade for him, but this is about the draft)

So yeah, shooting. And some height. Teach him the rest of it.

Just use the MLE on a shooter. Get Eric Gordon or someone younger if that's the direction they are going.

Or trade Boucher, Flynn or Precious for more shooting.

Shooting is at a premium right now, look at how much Joe Harris got paid, they won't be available for cheap. Boucher/Flynn/Precious aren't getting you a good shooter.

[ItsDanger]

Spinella calling it a "Pro League" is a huge stretch. Damn I hate the G-League. The games are the absolute worst to watch (poorly coached, poorly officiated and a lot of these players are getting paid peanuts). These teams play like zero defense so every team is out and running getting easy transition buckets.

A league where Dalano Banton can average 30 PPG is not one I take seriously.

Yep, people can't use G League stats other than for generalizations about what their skills are. Everytime I see games, the quality is poor.