Official RJ Barrett Thread

[brownbobcat]

RJ is a lot of ways we wish GTJ would be. Drawing fouls, finishing above the rim.

RJ is a better passer.

I'm just sad that the Norm trade for Trent didn't pan out. We wasted 3 years of development on Trent and let him walk for nothing (no trade value and too expensive to re-sign for bench player)

It was the right move, but definitely disappointing. Every season since, Norm has played better, been paid less and has higher trade value today.

The only possible upside is maybe they keep him for MLE money and he transforms into a serviceable 3&D player. I still think there's potential for that

[MavCarter]

It seems like media guys ( or if you want to go deeper other front offices using the media as their mouthpiece) have always been salty at the front office for not taking poo poo platter offers centered around late firsts for OG/Pascal. Getting two 25 and under starters for OG doesn't fit the "their front office is killing their players value" narrative

[Brinbe]

As others have said, it's all about environment and expectation.

The Knicks are trying to make deeper playoff push and RJ has the burden of trying to live up to a top 3 draft selection after they missed out on Zion and Ja, plus the other prospects they could've drafted instead and he doesn't present the best of fits next to their stars in Brunson/Randle. That sort of thing will naturally play into how he's seen by that market and fanbase. He's not toxic but he patience will run thin and he definitely needed a change of scenary.

And here, there's absolutely no real expectation of superstardom being placed upon him here. We just want him to turn into a positive starting level player and anything more would be a sweet bonus. That seems like an achievable goal for a 23-year-old who just needs to polish up his game and hit a few more developmental strides. That seems realistically possible, doesn't it?

We literally saw all this play out with Demar too.

That being said, all that front office media stuff is some weak BS but not entirely surprising.

[SFour]

It seems like media guys ( or if you want to go deeper other front offices using the media as their mouthpiece) have always been salty at the front office for not taking poo poo platter offers centered around late firsts for OG/Pascal. Getting two 25 and under starters for OG doesn't fit the "their front office is killing their players value" narrative

ya imo IQ/RJ/31st pick is better than any other package that I've seen offered for OG from the Knicks/Pacers/Grizzlies in the previous season.

I think the only better package would've been from the Blazers.....but imo it was the Blazers that backed out of that OG deal. They realized it was better just to stick with a real rebuild instead of doing a short-sighted trade.

[720]

It seems like media guys ( or if you want to go deeper other front offices using the media as their mouthpiece) have always been salty at the front office for not taking poo poo platter offers centered around late firsts for OG/Pascal. Getting two 25 and under starters for OG doesn't fit the "their front office is killing their players value" narrative

ya imo IQ/RJ/31st pick is better than any other package that I've seen offered for OG from the Knicks/Pacers/Grizzlies in the previous season.

I think the only better package would've been from the Blazers.....but imo it was the Blazers that backed out of that OG deal. They realized it was better just to stick with a real rebuild instead of doing a short-sighted trade.

Had we traded OG to the Grizzlies their pick this year would have been ours right? That’s a good pick. No one could have predicted the Morant gun suspension but that’s one of the things people aren’t taking into consideration. 3 1st round picks years into the future can also be good picks due to injuries, trades etc. That’s how those Nets picks became great for Boston. When they traded KG, Pierce to a team that had Deron Williams and Joe Johnson no one thought the team would break apart so quickly.

[hyper316]

As others have said, it's all about environment and expectation.

The Knicks are trying to make deeper playoff push and RJ has the burden of trying to live up to a top 3 draft selection after they missed out on Zion and Ja, plus the other prospects they could've drafted instead and he doesn't present the best of fits next to their stars in Brunson/Randle. That sort of thing will naturally play into how he's seen by that market and fanbase. He's not toxic but he patience will run thin and he definitely needed a change of scenary.

And here, there's absolutely no real expectation of superstardom being placed upon him here. We just want him to turn into a positive starting level player and anything more would be a sweet bonus. That seems like an achievable goal for a 23-year-old who just needs to polish up his game and hit a few more developmental strides. That seems realistically possible, doesn't it?

We literally saw all this play out with Demar too.

That being said, all that front office media stuff is some weak BS but not entirely surprising.

It's the high expectation of playing in NYC and I heard he #3 pick was the highest since Ewing draft. Knicks' stars for a long time post-Ewing have been acquired not drafted (Carmelo, Marbury, Amar'e, Allan Houston, Sprewell)

[brownbobcat]

As others have said, it's all about environment and expectation.

The Knicks are trying to make deeper playoff push and RJ has the burden of trying to live up to a top 3 draft selection after they missed out on Zion and Ja, plus the other prospects they could've drafted instead and he doesn't present the best of fits next to their stars in Brunson/Randle. That sort of thing will naturally play into how he's seen by that market and fanbase. He's not toxic but he patience will run thin and he definitely needed a change of scenary.

And here, there's absolutely no real expectation of superstardom being placed upon him here. We just want him to turn into a positive starting level player and anything more would be a sweet bonus. That seems like an achievable goal for a 23-year-old who just needs to polish up his game and hit a few more developmental strides. That seems realistically possible, doesn't it?

We literally saw all this play out with Demar too.

That being said, all that front office media stuff is some weak BS but not entirely surprising.

There are definitely some similarities with DeRozan. Aside from skill development on the handles/jumper, he's also got to get used to swinging the ball sooner when he isn't creating an advantage and cutting into space.

[StopitLeo]

Paying RJ 25 TO 29 million isn't that big of a difference from paying Poeltl 20 million. It's not ideal but it's not crippling. Having multiple of these contracts however starts to become a huge problem.
FO needs to start being really careful.

It all has to be considered relative to the cap. Good teams are going to have a roster with 1-2 players in the max 30% tier (25% for those coming off rookie deals). They will probably have another 1-2 making around 20-25%, a few in the~10-15% range (the MLE is ~9%), with the rest being <5%. Looking at the Raptors:

Pascal is making 28% and will re-sign (somewhere) for 30%.
Poeltl and Trent JR are making 14%.
Schroder and Boucher are making 9%.
Scottie is making 6% and Quickley is making 3% (both set to get big raises soon).

Barrett is making 18% of the cap. That's maybe a bit high for what his role is going to be but it isn't outlandish. If he was getting 25% of the cap we'd have a problem, which is precisely the issue we were going face with OG's free agency. You can't be paying your 3rd-4th option on offence 25% of the cap.

[MavCarter]

It seems like media guys ( or if you want to go deeper other front offices using the media as their mouthpiece) have always been salty at the front office for not taking poo poo platter offers centered around late firsts for OG/Pascal. Getting two 25 and under starters for OG doesn't fit the "their front office is killing their players value" narrative

ya imo IQ/RJ/31st pick is better than any other package that I've seen offered for OG from the Knicks/Pacers/Grizzlies in the previous season.

I think the only better package would've been from the Blazers.....but imo it was the Blazers that backed out of that OG deal. They realized it was better just to stick with a real rebuild instead of doing a short-sighted trade.

Had we traded OG to the Grizzlies their pick this year would have been ours right? That’s a good pick. No one could have predicted the Morant gun suspension but that’s one of the things people aren’t taking into consideration. 3 1st round picks years into the future can also be good picks due to injuries, trades etc. That’s how those Nets picks became great for Boston. When they traded KG, Pierce to a team that had Deron Williams and Joe Johnson no one thought the team would break apart so quickly.

The grizzlies traded for smart using their 23 FRP and GS 24 FRP so im assuming those two picks were involved in their OG offer. Which means we wouldn't have gotten their pick this year

[brownbobcat]

Paying RJ 25 TO 29 million isn't that big of a difference from paying Poeltl 20 million. It's not ideal but it's not crippling. Having multiple of these contracts however starts to become a huge problem.
FO needs to start being really careful.

It all has to be considered relative to the cap. Good teams are going to have a roster with 1-2 players in the max 30% tier (25% for those coming off rookie deals). They will probably have another 1-2 making around 20-25%, a few in the~10-15% range (the MLE is ~9%), with the rest being <5%. Looking at the Raptors:

Pascal is making 28% and will re-sign (somewhere) for 30%.
Poeltl and Trent JR are making 14%.
Schroder and Boucher are making 9%.
Scottie is making 6% and Quickley is making 3% (both set to get big raises soon).

Barrett is making 18% of the cap. That's maybe a bit high for what his role is going to be but it isn't outlandish. If he was getting 25% of the cap we'd have a problem, which is precisely the issue we were going face with OG's free agency. You can't be paying your 3rd-4th option on offence 25% of the cap.

Keep in mind that Quickley and Barrett are definitely going to be making more than OG combined.

[Dennis 37]

30% usage last night lmao

IQ had 4 fouls and was not tye same in the 4th.

[hyper316]

That fastbreak play in 4Q where he turned over, Barrett can't be the player bringing up the ball in the middle as the decision maker, he should be on the wings for 3pt shot or cutting to basket to finish. Either he leaks out after the shot or give it to IQ or Scottie on the rebound

That's the type of change in role for Wiggins would have faced from Minnesota to GSW. Steph or Draymond pushing the ball up.

[Madhouse]

30% usage last night lmao

IQ had 4 fouls and was not tye same in the 4th.

yeah that was not the usual game. I think Barrett was fine, just needs to limit the turnovers but he will have less responsibility with Quickley playing 30-35 minutes.

[StopitLeo]

It all has to be considered relative to the cap. Good teams are going to have a roster with 1-2 players in the max 30% tier (25% for those coming off rookie deals). They will probably have another 1-2 making around 20-25%, a few in the~10-15% range (the MLE is ~9%), with the rest being <5%. Looking at the Raptors:

Pascal is making 28% and will re-sign (somewhere) for 30%.
Poeltl and Trent JR are making 14%.
Schroder and Boucher are making 9%.
Scottie is making 6% and Quickley is making 3% (both set to get big raises soon).

Barrett is making 18% of the cap. That's maybe a bit high for what his role is going to be but it isn't outlandish. If he was getting 25% of the cap we'd have a problem, which is precisely the issue we were going face with OG's free agency. You can't be paying your 3rd-4th option on offence 25% of the cap.

Keep in mind that Quickley and Barrett are definitely going to be making more than OG combined.

True, but they should be producing more than OG. Scottie at most can get 25% and he'd be worth it the way he is playing and developing. I read that Quickley was looking for $25M. That sounds crazy at first but it would only be 16% of the projected cap next year. That seems very reasonable if he maintains his level of play with starter minutes. I mean, if we are looking at a Barnes-Quickley future IQ should definitely be worth at least 16% of the cap.

[720]

ya imo IQ/RJ/31st pick is better than any other package that I've seen offered for OG from the Knicks/Pacers/Grizzlies in the previous season.

I think the only better package would've been from the Blazers.....but imo it was the Blazers that backed out of that OG deal. They realized it was better just to stick with a real rebuild instead of doing a short-sighted trade.

Had we traded OG to the Grizzlies their pick this year would have been ours right? That’s a good pick. No one could have predicted the Morant gun suspension but that’s one of the things people aren’t taking into consideration. 3 1st round picks years into the future can also be good picks due to injuries, trades etc. That’s how those Nets picks became great for Boston. When they traded KG, Pierce to a team that had Deron Williams and Joe Johnson no one thought the team would break apart so quickly.

The grizzlies traded for smart using their 23 FRP and GS 24 FRP so im assuming those two picks were involved in their OG offer. Which means we wouldn't have gotten their pick this year

They offered three 1sts to us though. OG is also better than Smart. So the value of the picks could have been different. That warriors pick is a great pick as well btw (even with top 4 protection). I would have gladly taken that. Ultimately though I am fine with this trade because I think Quickley has a real shot at being great

[lebron stopper]

RJ is a lot of ways we wish GTJ would be. Drawing fouls, finishing above the rim.

RJ is a better passer.

I'm just sad that the Norm trade for Trent didn't pan out. We wasted 3 years of development on Trent and let him walk for nothing (no trade value and too expensive to re-sign for bench player)

It was the right move, but definitely disappointing. Every season since, Norm has played better, been paid less and has higher trade value today.

The only possible upside is maybe they keep him for MLE money and he transforms into a serviceable 3&D player. I still think there's potential for that

Agreed on everything, except right move.

I would instead say right idea but wrong move: they went after the wrong prospect+pick package and it was very likely going to be downhill from there IMO. There were signs before that trade that Gary Trent Jr. wasn't all that he was cracked up to be. Like, for example, the fact that he had a whopping total of 3 assists in a 5-game playoff series. Or the fact that he had trouble defending during his time with the Blazers. Look at his lack of physical tools and athleticism compared to Powell, as well as Powell's improbable development curve, and you really have to wonder how Trent got hyped as "soon to be better than Powell" back then. That imagined upside was just not there.

It's one thing to covet prospects who have actually shown serious upside to speed up your rebuild timeline, as Masai did with trading OG Anunoby for Immanuel Quickley. That kind of move is understandable, especially given the situation with OG's contract, as well as IQ's impressive track record in his first few seasons with the Knicks as a reserve. Masai did well there, and I doubt many will regret that trade whatsoever when we look back 2-3 years from now.

But it's another thing to completely gamble on guys like Trent, someone who has shown little before the Raptors acquired him, and has continued to show little since then (aside from a half-season stretch of getting away with gambling on defense, which predictably fizzled out). Not only do you have to pay those "proven prospects" much more for potential, but if they fail to show anything, you are totally screwed because you threw away good talent for much less value, and you have little recourse (can't get back more value in a trade) because those players are close to being realized. As we all know right now, a part of the reason why the Raptors are stuck is because they bet on Trent, which they lost so badly that there is no way to get any value for him anymore. My guess is he will end up walking this offseason or become a throw-in for a Siakam trade (just as Achiuwa was a throw-in for the Anunoby trade).

[WaltFrazier]

What really bothers me is that the way the announcing crew and tv crews hype RJ is as if Toronto fans are just morons. As if none of us have the internet and here comes this star that will save us. I think this is quite insulting to those of us that follow basketball.

This team needs a lot more than RJ and IQ. To act like this was worth loosing a talent like OG, is straight out lying to the fans about where this squad is heading. It's overhyping what RJ brings to the table. IQ I see the potential in, he actually looked good as a defender, and did not turn the ball over once.... but if you were new to basketball and relied on what our TV hosts are saying, you would think that RJ is the best part of the trade, and to me the message they are pushing is grade A propaganda and insulting to anyone who actually follows basketball.

I wish they would just be honest and say, that OG most likely wanted out of Toronto. He was our best 2 way player, with skills that are difficult to find in this league and the Raptors did their best to get something for him rather than be stuck with nothing. Our team most likely has gotten worse overall. However, there is light at the end of the tunnel, as IQ looks like a player that will break out if given sufficient playing time, and may end up balancing this trade. Also, the pick from Detroit is a high 2nd rounder, one spot out of the 1st round. Considering how good Masai has been at spotting talent, it is possible that we will find a very capable player at the position. This of course is not going to be easy, but, if our scouting puts in the maximum effort that they are capable of, I have a feeling that we can turn that pick into something worth while, maybe even great.

So in short, unless you are new to basketball or a teenager, this team did the best back-peddling it could do with what was about to happen in free agency, knowing what we know about OG's mindset and his desire for change, we made the best move we could make to keep our heads above the water.... but we are not making the playoffs! Anyone that thinks this team just needed to dump OG and Precious and replace them with RJ and IQ to be successful is smoking some seriously good stuff.

Even if you like the trade and aren't too pessimistic about RJ, the first part of the post about the way the local media hypes up the local hero angle, as if RJ is the star we've been waiting for, is true. It does come off as insultingly homerish propaganda. They act as if Jamal Murray or SGA has arrived.

[Bruin]

Rooting for this kid. He’s so happy to be home playing for the team he grew up watching. Would be awesome to see him turn his career around and get back on track to becoming a good and valued player in this league. No better place to turn it around then here at home

[Statistician MK]

Barrett > Anunoby

OG Anunoby
33.3 minutes per game
26.7 fantasy points

RJ Barrett
29.5 minutes per game
27.6 fantasy points

[Boogie!]

RJ is a lot of ways we wish GTJ would be. Drawing fouls, finishing above the rim.

RJ is a better passer.

I'm just sad that the Norm trade for Trent didn't pan out. We wasted 3 years of development on Trent and let him walk for nothing (no trade value and too expensive to re-sign for bench player)

It was the right move, but definitely disappointing. Every season since, Norm has played better, been paid less and has higher trade value today.

The only possible upside is maybe they keep him for MLE money and he transforms into a serviceable 3&D player. I still think there's potential for that

Agreed on everything, except right move.

I would instead say right idea but wrong move: they went after the wrong prospect+pick package and it was very likely going to be downhill from there IMO. There were signs before that trade that Gary Trent Jr. wasn't all that he was cracked up to be. Like, for example, the fact that he had a whopping total of 3 assists in a 5-game playoff series. Or the fact that he had trouble defending during his time with the Blazers. Look at his lack of physical tools and athleticism compared to Powell, as well as Powell's improbable development curve, and you really have to wonder how Trent got hyped as "soon to be better than Powell" back then. That imagined upside was just not there.

It's one thing to covet prospects who have actually shown serious upside to speed up your rebuild timeline, as Masai did with trading OG Anunoby for Immanuel Quickley. That kind of move is understandable, especially given the situation with OG's contract, as well as IQ's impressive track record in his first few seasons with the Knicks as a reserve. Masai did well there, and I doubt many will regret that trade whatsoever when we look back 2-3 years from now.

But it's another thing to completely gamble on guys like Trent, someone who has shown little before the Raptors acquired him, and has continued to show little since then (aside from a half-season stretch of getting away with gambling on defense, which predictably fizzled out). Not only do you have to pay those "proven prospects" much more for potential, but if they fail to show anything, you are totally screwed because you threw away good talent for much less value, and you have little recourse (can't get back more value in a trade) because those players are close to being realized. As we all know right now, a part of the reason why the Raptors are stuck is because they bet on Trent, which they lost so badly that there is no way to get any value for him anymore. My guess is he will end up walking this offseason or become a throw-in for a Siakam trade (just as Achiuwa was a throw-in for the Anunoby trade).

I never understood why they traded powell who seemingly wanted to be here, and fit the timeline of both fvv and siakam, if their goal was to build with both fvv and siakam and even og. There was already chemistry in place and norman had turned a corner and became a lights out shooter with good finishing ability inside.

I knew trying to build with fvv would be a problem, but if they were gonna do it it made more sense to keep that group together. Instead they completely rucked everything up with their direction.