Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[LoveMyRaps]

i think scottie is just a draymond green, not the worst

He’s nowhere near as good as Draymond. Please stop this foolish comp.

[PushDaRock]

It's been very ugly aesthetically and his finishing has been really poor combined with a lot of turnovers but he's really putting more of an effort into drawing fouls lately, also looks to have lost confidence in his jumper as he's not even looking to take his mid range J anymore.

[Tripod]

It's been very ugly aesthetically and his finishing has been really poor combined with a lot of turnovers but he's really putting more of an effort into drawing fouls lately, also looks to have lost confidence in his jumper as he's not even looking to take his mid range J anymore.

Or he is working on trying to finish inside. They said he was working on his left with RJ.

[PushDaRock]

It's been very ugly aesthetically and his finishing has been really poor combined with a lot of turnovers but he's really putting more of an effort into drawing fouls lately, also looks to have lost confidence in his jumper as he's not even looking to take his mid range J anymore.

Or he is working on trying to finish inside. They said he was working on his left with RJ.

Probably is, but he's forcing a lot of really bad drives that aren't even close to going in and relying on a bail out whistle. If he gets those calls all the time, I guess it's fine though and better than the alternative of bricking jumpers.

[Tripod]

It's been very ugly aesthetically and his finishing has been really poor combined with a lot of turnovers but he's really putting more of an effort into drawing fouls lately, also looks to have lost confidence in his jumper as he's not even looking to take his mid range J anymore.

Or he is working on trying to finish inside. They said he was working on his left with RJ.

Probably is, but he's forcing a lot of really bad drives that aren't even close to going in and relying on a bail out whistle. If he gets those calls all the time, I guess it's fine though and better than the alternative of bricking jumpers.

I agree...lots of ugly drives.

[tsherkin]

He seems to be a good PnR roll man, but all these are for bigs, and hard to imagine he plays the C or we got a stretch 5.

They aren't all for bigs, that's weird, honestly. Those can be used for anyone. And yeah, he'll end up playing a bunch at the 4.

It is more a must for him to develop that 3

That isn't likely to happen. Unless, as I said, we take his crap-ass corner 3 and make that ALL he shoots. In which case, he's got a 36% 3ball raring to go for us already.

[XTC]

He seems to be a good PnR roll man, but all these are for bigs, and hard to imagine he plays the C or we got a stretch 5.

They aren't all for bigs, that's weird, honestly. Those can be used for anyone. And yeah, he'll end up playing a bunch at the 4.

It is more a must for him to develop that 3

That isn't likely to happen. Unless, as I said, we take his crap-ass corner 3 and make that ALL he shoots. In which case, he's got a 36% 3ball raring to go for us already.

Unless the Raptors are ready to take the ball out of his hands, I don't see his corner 3's attempts going up. How many ball dominant players are actually shooting corner 3's?

[tsherkin]

Unless the Raptors are ready to take the ball out of his hands, I don't see his corner 3's attempts going up. How many ball dominant players are actually shooting corner 3's?

Oh, I agree. But we're going to have to take the ball out of his hands a bunch anyway for Ingram and Quickley. And so it only makes sense that for at least a few possessions each time he's out on the floor that Scottie should get off-ball to get some easier, more-efficient looks, while reducing his overall shooting volume. And then we begin the process of juggling that with extracting playmaking value out of him so we don't tank his offensive value even compared to where it is now.

[ishoy123]

11th most expensive contract in the league. yikes

That's not correct. He will be the 36th highest paid player in the league next year.

[MikeM]

Easy trade candidate for a real star. Masai saying all the right things but would deal him in a heartbeat I think

[PushDaRock]

Easy trade candidate for a real star. Masai saying all the right things but would deal him in a heartbeat I think

If they ever got in on a Giannis deal, Scottie would certainly be going the other way.

[tsherkin]

Easy trade candidate for a real star. Masai saying all the right things but would deal him in a heartbeat I think

If they ever got in on a Giannis deal, Scottie would certainly be going the other way.

I mean, he did it with Demar. Not that it's coming, but I'd take a couple years of Giannis at the cost of Scottie, no problem.

[Indeed]

He seems to be a good PnR roll man, but all these are for bigs, and hard to imagine he plays the C or we got a stretch 5.

They aren't all for bigs, that's weird, honestly. Those can be used for anyone. And yeah, he'll end up playing a bunch at the 4.

It is more a must for him to develop that 3

That isn't likely to happen. Unless, as I said, we take his crap-ass corner 3 and make that ALL he shoots. In which case, he's got a 36% 3ball raring to go for us already.

Unless the Raptors are ready to take the ball out of his hands, I don't see his corner 3's attempts going up. How many ball dominant players are actually shooting corner 3's?

But are we efficient with him having the ball? I don't see it.
He is a good connector, but he needs someone to attract and shift the defense before he shows his good connector skill.

Afterall, I don't feel he needs the ball in his hand. And to me, 3 ball is a must for that reason, because he is not attracting the defense.

[tsherkin]

But are we efficient with him having the ball? I don't see it.
He is a good connector, but he needs someone to attract and shift the defense before he shows his good connector skill.

This isn't entirely true. Scottie seems to be able to get into the paint without much issue. The problem is finishing when he shoots from there, and especially when he's outside of the paint. But based on his volume and shot distribution, him getting southbound isn't the problem. A screen, half a step and he can muscle forward to get on the spot he wants pretty well. That hasn't been the problem.

Afterall, I don't feel he needs the ball in his hand. And to me, 3 ball is a must for that reason, because he is not attracting the defense.

It isn't coming. So we need to pivot off that and find other ways to extract value.

[YogurtProducer]

Easy trade candidate for a real star. Masai saying all the right things but would deal him in a heartbeat I think

If they ever got in on a Giannis deal, Scottie would certainly be going the other way.

I mean, he did it with Demar. Not that it's coming, but I'd take a couple years of Giannis at the cost of Scottie, no problem.

Dream off-season would be Giannis demanding out and we somehow manage to get him and Portis for like Barnes/Poeltl

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Portis/Giannis
Shead/RJ/Walter/Boucher/Sign a C

+ 2025 1st

[tsherkin]

Dream off-season would be Giannis demanding out and we somehow manage to get him and Portis for like Barnes/Poeltl

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Portis/Giannis
Shead/RJ/Walter/Boucher/Sign a C

+ 2025 1st

That'd be wild, man.

[Indeed]

But are we efficient with him having the ball? I don't see it.
He is a good connector, but he needs someone to attract and shift the defense before he shows his good connector skill.

This isn't entirely true. Scottie seems to be able to get into the paint without much issue. The problem is finishing when he shoots from there, and especially when he's outside of the paint. But based on his volume and shot distribution, him getting southbound isn't the problem. A screen, half a step and he can muscle forward to get on the spot he wants pretty well. That hasn't been the problem.

Afterall, I don't feel he needs the ball in his hand. And to me, 3 ball is a must for that reason, because he is not attracting the defense.

It isn't coming. So we need to pivot off that and find other ways to extract value.

I don't call those "get into the paint" if those are just contested shots, particularly those with hands on the face. Most of his shots are hands on the face. And he has problem getting south bound, the last few games I watched, he can NOT muscle forward, because teams know he will bully, so their defenders are bigger (if against stronger teams).

Maybe watch again the recent games, I don't see him getting to the paint, because he doesn't have moves nor shooting. His only way is really shoot the ball from 3, so that he can get a better first step.

[PushDaRock]

Easy trade candidate for a real star. Masai saying all the right things but would deal him in a heartbeat I think

If they ever got in on a Giannis deal, Scottie would certainly be going the other way.

I mean, he did it with Demar. Not that it's coming, but I'd take a couple years of Giannis at the cost of Scottie, no problem.

It's a no brainer if he were to become available but I don't think it's likely. We are however positioned pretty well to capitalize if it were to become an actual opportunity.

[Jadoogar]

i think scottie is just a draymond green, not the worst

He’s nowhere near as good as Draymond. Please stop this foolish comp.

people just see the lack of scoring and good playmaking and make the Draymond comp. Draymond is one of the smartest defenders in history, he basically popularized the small ball center position. Scottie is a good defender but not transcendent.

[tsherkin]

It's a no brainer if he were to become available but I don't think it's likely. We are however positioned pretty well to capitalize if it were to become an actual opportunity.

I don't think it likely/realistic at all, but it's fun to think about!

I don't call those "get into the paint" if those are just contested shots, particularly those with hands on the face.

They are literally him in the paint. They count. Do they always collapse the D effectively? No, but that wasn't really what we were initially discussing, in fairness. The issue we were discussing was his ability to get there and generate a shot, which he can clearly do.

Most of his shots are hands on the face. And he has problem getting south bound, the last few games I watched, he can NOT muscle forward, because teams know he will bully, so their defenders are bigger (if against stronger teams).

It's exactly what he does, though. He gets fairly deep into the paint primarily on the basis of his shoulders and some developing hesitation moves, coupled to screen entry.

Maybe watch again the recent games, I don't see him getting to the paint, because he doesn't have moves nor shooting. His only way is really shoot the ball from 3, so that he can get a better first step.

Against Utah, he only took 4 shots OUTSIDE of the paint. He had 10 shots inside of 10 feet. He took 16 shots total.

Against Phoenix, 13 shots, 10 of them in the paint, 9 inside 10 feet, 7 of which came at 4 feet or closer.

Against Portland, 11 shots, 2 outside of the paint. One right on the FT line, 8 of them south of the bottom of the circle (9 feet and closer), 7 of them inside 6 feet.

He's been living in the key, man. His trouble is FINISHING; it really isn't an issue for him getting there.