2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[ItsDanger]

Coward only played 6 games, mostly against weak competition. From the highlights, didnt go right, not much at rim, no sign of good handles. Honestly looks more like off ball player.

[ArthurVandelay]

Coward only played 6 games, mostly against weak competition. From the highlights, didnt go right, not much at rim, no sign of good handles. Honestly looks more like off ball player.

Denim’s first 6 games had him going top 3

I’m a coward for Coward

[dohboy_24]

Something about watching Coward almost had me wishing Maluach won't drop so we could pick him. It's hard to wrap my mind around him being the pick because of his lack of rim pressure and being older while playing weaker competition. He just has that aesthetic to his game, especially his mid range jumper, that reminds of Kawhi. His measurements are like a SG version of Kawhi too and he sounds great in interviews. Just so scary taking a guy that looked like good value at 39, 9th because he shot up due to a combine.

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

[Grew]

Something about watching Coward almost had me wishing Maluach won't drop so we could pick him. It's hard to wrap my mind around him being the pick because of his lack of rim pressure and being older while playing weaker competition. He just has that aesthetic to his game, especially his mid range jumper, that reminds of Kawhi. His measurements are like a SG version of Kawhi too and he sounds great in interviews. Just so scary taking a guy that looked like good value at 39, 9th because he shot up due to a combine.

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

10 probably not. Obviously Dame comes to mind immediately. So it's at least possible.

[bballsparkin]

LOL if its RJ to the Kings to bring Demar back. We do save like $2M, and if we are serious about making the playoffs, I guess Demar is better than RJ right now.

Would DeMar even want to come back? Think I'd rather just keep RJ if that's the trade.

[dohboy_24]

Something about watching Coward almost had me wishing Maluach won't drop so we could pick him. It's hard to wrap my mind around him being the pick because of his lack of rim pressure and being older while playing weaker competition. He just has that aesthetic to his game, especially his mid range jumper, that reminds of Kawhi. His measurements are like a SG version of Kawhi too and he sounds great in interviews. Just so scary taking a guy that looked like good value at 39, 9th because he shot up due to a combine.

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

10 probably not. Obviously Dame comes to mind immediately. So it's at least possible.

Dame was selected in the 2012 draft. Including that year, there have been 13 drafts since then. 30 first round picks x 13 drafts = 260 players.

1/260 = 0.38% of the players drafted. Dame is a one in 260 example.

Despite his combine performance and rising draft stock, the odds are not in Coward's favor to replicate what Dame and few others before or after him have managed to achieve.

[Indeed]

With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...

Kawhi was projected to be more a 3&D, so I think it depends.
But we definitely missed Siakam, where our Barnes (bottom 20 efficiency in the league who so called 20PPG), Poeltl (hardly able to create), Quickley and Dick can really create and get you points (particularly in playoffs).

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

;t

Kawhi wasn't really just a 3&D guy he had a mid range jumper and a solid ability to create his own shot + A post up fade or attack game....Kinda like Coward in a way.....I don't see Bryant/Noa/Fleming at this kinda level....

Kawhi should have went higher in the draft but if my memory is correct people questioned his athletic ability since he wasn't the best leaper in college and looked a little slow footed....And his jumpshot did not look the smoothest....But he looked like he had the ability to be a 3 level scorer in college And had a little bit of a dribble package...

At 9th i don't see a "Big wing Defender" in this class having that trait....Noa looks more like a slasher without much of an offnsive package, Bryant to me looks like a Catch & Shoot Corner guy without a Middy or get to the basket skills, Fleming who i like out of all the 3&D guys looks like he can't really self create as well...

Think at 9th the defenders are all pretty raw on the offensive side of things but i like Fleming the most if i had to choose one...

Think at 9 if a guy who can self create and looks to have 3 level scoring upside + Defend i think its worth it more to gamble on that...

Leonard can't create his shot. He might able to get to his spot and take a jump shot in his second year, but his shooting was rather bad. His TS% was 51% in college.

[Buff]

First of all, I want to make clear that Im not a CB bandwagoner, not sure if I would take him at 9 or whatever. But let's play.

I think dynamic scorers are more valuable than a utility player....For example....What does Bryant for example do better on the court than Coward/Jase.....How many things can you name he is better at?....

Guard big wings. Not sure about the shooting but I did see all his attempts and quite liked that he would shoot whether he was guarded or not and the mechanics seemed very very close. If he's any better shooter than Jase or Coward not sure. You including Coward there makes it difficult for me to make the point since he is closer to CB than he is to Jase,

Bryant has height (Has nothing to do with on court production)....Maybe a little tad bit better defense....But its not like Bryant has best wing defender in the league upside here....

Hard to say if he has best in league potential... let's assume he's OG... height definitively works for defense so I'd say he will always be a better defender than Jase so his defense is way way more than "a tad bit better" than 6'0 Jase. Coward, again, much more difficult to compare.

Now lets see what he doesn't have....Does not attack the basket, Does not have a good handle to get past or break down defenders, Does not get to the FT line, Can not really self create at all....

Again, in my view not everybody ought to do everything (OG)... you can be a hell of player defending the oppo best player and sticking open threes, You can play that role on a championship team (see, Danny Green)

Now so many negatives ^ Hes also not a better shooter than Jase or Coward....So you can't use that one....So what does Bryant do better on the basketball court exactly?....If a good defender lets say Alex Caruso/Jaden McDaniels etc takes away Bryants 3 point shot?....What does he have in his offensive bag to combat that?....He does not have the ball handling skills to put the ball on the floor against these type of defenders or a mid range game...And is horrible at finishing in the paint ...(Fast break dunks not included or cutting dunks im talking about self created finishing in the paint)

If a Caruso-level defender left your best player to take your corner man's three you are winning. All he need to do is pass it out, looks like he can do that.

So at that point he becomes kind of useless on the court and a fast break guy....Our teams been the worst in Half court offense, Offense in general....Bryant does not really help our negatives enough to warrrent picking him 9th when there could be a guy available that can help them...

Two sides of the ball.

Thats my thought process on it anyways...

The only thing we're sure about is that there is no sure-fire way of knowing these things, take professionals with all the resources and their record is as close to 50% as it gets. I'd like to think Masai is a little better so I'll go with his stuff and try to see what he saw. In the meantime im absolutely certain I have 50% chance to be right about this.

[Grew]

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

10 probably not. Obviously Dame comes to mind immediately. So it's at least possible.

Dame was selected in the 2012 draft. Including that year, there have been 13 drafts since then. 30 first round picks x 13 drafts = 260 players.

1/260 = 0.38% of the players drafted. Dame is a one in 260 example.

Despite his combine performance and rising draft stock, the odds are not in Coward's favor to replicate what Dame and few others before or after him have managed to achieve.

So you're saying there's a chance

[dohboy_24]

10 probably not. Obviously Dame comes to mind immediately. So it's at least possible.

Dame was selected in the 2012 draft. Including that year, there have been 13 drafts since then. 30 first round picks x 13 drafts = 260 players.

1/260 = 0.38% of the players drafted. Dame is a one in 260 example.

Despite his combine performance and rising draft stock, the odds are not in Coward's favor to replicate what Dame and few others before or after him have managed to achieve.

So you're saying there's a chance

Yep and there's a chance you'll flip heads 100 times in row too...

[Mark_83]

Something about watching Coward almost had me wishing Maluach won't drop so we could pick him. It's hard to wrap my mind around him being the pick because of his lack of rim pressure and being older while playing weaker competition. He just has that aesthetic to his game, especially his mid range jumper, that reminds of Kawhi. His measurements are like a SG version of Kawhi too and he sounds great in interviews. Just so scary taking a guy that looked like good value at 39, 9th because he shot up due to a combine.

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

Here's at least 14:

Larry Johnson
John Starks
Derrick White
Damian Lillard
Danny Granger
Bruce Bowen
Ben Wallace
Kyle Korver
George Hill
C.J. McCollum
Paul Millsap
Pascal Siakam
Robert Convington
Hassan Whiteside

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

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[UnbelievablyRAW]

Haven’t really even bothered to look at Coward stuff. Just way to old

[RoteSchroder]

Haven’t really even bothered to look at Coward stuff. Just way to old

I would see if there are any win-now teams that are desperate to get Coward and use him as trade bait for a lopsided package (i.e. neuter Orlando/Houston/OKC of all their picks)

on another note..should we be looking at Ben Saraf

[dohboy_24]

Something about watching Coward almost had me wishing Maluach won't drop so we could pick him. It's hard to wrap my mind around him being the pick because of his lack of rim pressure and being older while playing weaker competition. He just has that aesthetic to his game, especially his mid range jumper, that reminds of Kawhi. His measurements are like a SG version of Kawhi too and he sounds great in interviews. Just so scary taking a guy that looked like good value at 39, 9th because he shot up due to a combine.

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

Here's at least 14:

Larry Johnson
John Starks
Derrick White
Damian Lillard
Danny Granger
Bruce Bowen
Ben Wallace
Kyle Korver
George Hill
C.J. McCollum
Paul Millsap
Pascal Siakam
Robert Convington
Hassan Whiteside

OK... so during the past 37 drafts only 14 of the more than 2,000 players drafted fit the criteria.

Since 1988, that's still less than 1% of the players drafted.

How many of those players were drafted in the lottery?

LJ
Lillard
McCullom

That's only 3 of the more than 2,000 players drafted, or a 1 in 666 chance that a player aged 22 years or older before the season starts who played in a weak conference is able to achieve those accolades.

How much are you willing to bet that Cedric Coward is going to become the fourth?

[LoveMyRaps]

Coward only played 6 games, mostly against weak competition. From the highlights, didnt go right, not much at rim, no sign of good handles. Honestly looks more like off ball player.

Don’t fall for the propaganda.

He’s being pushed by teams outside of the lotto so another player (a better prospect) ends up dropping.

[LoveMyRaps]

Haven’t really even bothered to look at Coward stuff. Just way to old

on another note..should we be looking at Ben Saraf

No we should not.

[Mark_83]

[BoyzNTheHood]

Haven’t really even bothered to look at Coward stuff. Just way to old

He’s 21, and will be 22 when the season starts. Way too old is exaggeration.

[Mark_83]

Before next season starts, Cedric Coward will be 22 years old. He played 2 seasons (66 games) at Eastern Washington (Big Sky Conference) and 1 season (6 games) at Washington State (West Coast Conference).

Can you or anyone else on this board name at least ten (10) players who played against sub-par competition in weak college conferences who were 22 years old before their rookie season began that have earned at least one (1) All-Star appearance OR one (1) All-NBA team nomination OR one (1) All-Defense team nomination OR one (1) end of season NBA award (Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Most Valuable Player) during their career?

Here's at least 14:

Larry Johnson
John Starks
Derrick White
Damian Lillard
Danny Granger
Bruce Bowen
Ben Wallace
Kyle Korver
George Hill
C.J. McCollum
Paul Millsap
Pascal Siakam
Robert Convington
Hassan Whiteside

OK... so during the past 37 drafts only 14 of the more than 2,000 players drafted fit the criteria.

Since 1988, that's still less than 1% of the players drafted.

How many of those players were drafted in the lottery?

LJ
Lillard
McCullom

That's only 3 of the more than 2,000 players drafted, or a 1 in 666 chance that a player aged 22 years or older before the season starts who played in a weak conference is able to achieve those accolades.

How much are you willing to bet that Cedric Coward is going to become the fourth?

I'm not sure if you understand how statistical probability works but the argument that only “3 of over 2,000” players drafted meet the criteria wrongly assumes that every one of those 2,000 players fits the specific background of being 22+ years old before their rookie season and playing in a weak conference. That’s a false denominator.

The accurate probability must be based only on players who fit the same profile as Cedric Coward, not all draftees.

Imagine someone says that only 4 players from San Diego State have ever made the NBA. Out of over 4,500 total players in NBA history, that’s less than 0.1%. So, clearly, any San Diego State player has basically no chance of making the league. That sounds convincing at first — but it’s deeply misleading.

Why? Because the proper comparison isn’t between San Diego State players and all NBA players. It should be between San Diego State players who were serious NBA prospects and the number who made it. If only 15 players from San Diego State have been drafted since the 1980s, and 4 made the NBA, that’s a 26.7% success rate — not 0.1%.

So the right question is: What proportion of [______] prospects were successful in the NBA?” Not: "What proportion of all NBA players come from [______] group?”

I'd imagine the number of players who were 22 or older entering their rookie years who won some sort of accolades is probably pretty high within that narrow sub group given that the total group who were even worthy of NBA consideration in the first place was itself very small.