Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[Johnny Bball]

Will Lou basically said he would do an AD trade for the Raptors if Poeltl's contract is part of it, in his react pod for yesterday's game.

He also threw out an oddly specific framework that he thinks the Raptors would have to consider.

Poeltl
RJ
1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey
1 FRP

Considering how plugged in he seems to be with Bobby, and this oddly specific proposal only has 1 FRP in it (a Masai/Bobby special as this FO has yet to move multiple FRPs in 1 trade), I have a gut feeling Bobby would actually pull the trigger something like this.

Although the Mavs are reportedly looking for and valuing draft capital in an AD trade, so I doubt just 1 FRP cuts it for them at the moment.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47262180/anthony-davis-trade-guide-five-deals-mavericks-warriors-spurs-pistons-hawks-raptors

Probably from here.

edit; and I caught up and see you saw exactly the same

The podcast that Will Lou first mentioned his AD proposal was actually before ESPN put out that article. The proposal ESPN put out is also surprisingly more favourable for the Raptors than Will Lou's proposal, because he thinks we would have to give up 1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey as the 3rd outgoing player, while ESPN thinks it only takes Ochai's expiring.

If they were to do this, Ochai would be ideal because you don't actually want to have to pay hi when he succeeds. Gradey 2nd. Ja'kobe keep. And not CMB. Prefer Quickley went as opposed to RJ, Dallas is eventually trading Kyrie to rebuild.

I would like to see AD, Barnes and CMB together with basically 3 guys that can play 3-5 as smallball centres all able to defend the rim.

But I'm not sure AD fits this timeline so I don't think we will see any of it. The deal would be pretty cheap as structured.

[YogurtProducer]

I guess I’m just not sure that AD puts us over the top.

Entirely agree. Even if you magic 8 ball it and tell me AD plays every single game for the rest of the season, I am not convinced we are a real contender. IQ/???/Ingram/Barnes/Davis still lacks the elite go-to scorer ever contender has.

Might be crazy, but if you get Davis do you try and get like Harden or something as well and just say **** it, lets just go hard for 2 years then tank? I know his playoff history and everything, but the dude is putting up 26/5/8 on 63TS% and in theory, a Harden/Davis PnR sounds insane.

Raptors - Harden/AD

Mavs - Poeltl / RJ / Dick

LAC - IQ / Mogbo / Exum

Harden / Shead
Agbaji / Walter
Ingram / Battle
Barnes / CMB
Davis / Mamu

Then if you want, trade Temple + 2nd for Tony Bradley as your traditional backup C

[TorontoBarneys]

Might be able to buy low on Garland now.

[Jerry Lucas]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47262180/anthony-davis-trade-guide-five-deals-mavericks-warriors-spurs-pistons-hawks-raptors

Probably from here.

edit; and I caught up and see you saw exactly the same

The podcast that Will Lou first mentioned his AD proposal was actually before ESPN put out that article. The proposal ESPN put out is also surprisingly more favourable for the Raptors than Will Lou's proposal, because he thinks we would have to give up 1 of Ja'Kobe/Gradey as the 3rd outgoing player, while ESPN thinks it only takes Ochai's expiring.

If they were to do this, Ochai would be ideal because you don't actually want to have to pay hi when he succeeds. Gradey 2nd. Ja'kobe keep. And not CMB. Prefer Quickley went as opposed to RJ, Dallas is eventually trading Kyrie to rebuild.

I would like to see AD, Barnes and CMB together with basically 3 guys that can play 3-5 as smallball centres all able to defend the rim.

But I'm not sure AD fits this timeline so I don't think we will see any of it. The deal would be pretty cheap as structured.

Who would be the IQ rotation replacement at PG if they move him instead of RJ? Also who would be the IQ replacement in terms of being literally the only guy in the entire rotation that shoots the 3 both efficiently and at a high volume?

And while the AD timeline fit may seem questionable, it seems like the Raptors main motivation here would be upgrading massively on Poeltl at the starting 5 spot (for a relatively low acquisition cost), and getting AD the Alex McKechnie experience (notice how startlingly available Ingram has been so far, not even having to rest 1 back-to-back?).

Also since the start of the 2022-23 season (last full 3 seasons before this one and including the start of this season) AD and Poeltl have actually missed an eerily similar amount of games due to injuries. Might be more of a glass for glass swap than some people realize, and the Raptors might not mind taking on AD's money if Poeltl's money is off the books.

[Gavin_TDThree]

Might be able to buy low on Garland now.

this would be a really interesting move

[Jerry Lucas]

I guess I’m just not sure that AD puts us over the top.

Entirely agree. Even if you magic 8 ball it and tell me AD plays every single game for the rest of the season, I am not convinced we are a real contender. IQ/???/Ingram/Barnes/Davis still lacks the elite go-to scorer ever contender has.

Might be crazy, but if you get Davis do you try and get like Harden or something as well and just say **** it, lets just go hard for 2 years then tank? I know his playoff history and everything, but the dude is putting up 26/5/8 on 63TS% and in theory, a Harden/Davis PnR sounds insane.

Raptors - Harden/AD

Mavs - Poeltl / RJ / Dick

LAC - IQ / Mogbo / Exum

Harden / Shead
Agbaji / Walter
Ingram / Battle
Barnes / CMB
Davis / Mamu

Then if you want, trade Temple + 2nd for Tony Bradley as your traditional backup C

Why would the Clippers trade Harden to us for only IQ and Mogbo?

OKC is already about to break the NBA with a historic season and Clippers unprotected FRP as is, trading Harden for only IQ and Mogbo would cement it (OKC already has tied for the best lotto odds via the Clippers FRP).

Also the continued love affair you have for Ochai is hilarious.

[YogurtProducer]

I guess I’m just not sure that AD puts us over the top.

Entirely agree. Even if you magic 8 ball it and tell me AD plays every single game for the rest of the season, I am not convinced we are a real contender. IQ/???/Ingram/Barnes/Davis still lacks the elite go-to scorer ever contender has.

Might be crazy, but if you get Davis do you try and get like Harden or something as well and just say **** it, lets just go hard for 2 years then tank? I know his playoff history and everything, but the dude is putting up 26/5/8 on 63TS% and in theory, a Harden/Davis PnR sounds insane.

Raptors - Harden/AD

Mavs - Poeltl / RJ / Dick

LAC - IQ / Mogbo / Exum

Harden / Shead
Agbaji / Walter
Ingram / Battle
Barnes / CMB
Davis / Mamu

Then if you want, trade Temple + 2nd for Tony Bradley as your traditional backup C

Why would the Clippers trade Harden to us for only IQ and Mogbo?

OKC is already about to break the NBA with a historic season and Clippers unprotected FRP as is, trading Harden for only IQ and Mogbo would cement it (OKC already has tied for the best lotto odds via the Clippers FRP).

Also the continued love affair you have for Ochai is hilarious.

Because obviously there would be some level of draft compensation involved. The real question is why would LAC hold onto 36 year old Harden in a lost season (seasons?).

I don't understand your Ochai comment either. Literally didn't even bring him up at all

[tsherkin]

Might be able to buy low on Garland now.

Seems unlikely. Cleveland knows what they have. He's dealing with injuries, but has been a 21/3/7 player for most of half a decade, with elite shooting.

Can't imagine they'd want to get rid of him just because of a rough start to one season. A year ago, they were a 64-win team and the best offense in the league, and he WILL normalize eventually.

[Jerry Lucas]

Entirely agree. Even if you magic 8 ball it and tell me AD plays every single game for the rest of the season, I am not convinced we are a real contender. IQ/???/Ingram/Barnes/Davis still lacks the elite go-to scorer ever contender has.

Might be crazy, but if you get Davis do you try and get like Harden or something as well and just say **** it, lets just go hard for 2 years then tank? I know his playoff history and everything, but the dude is putting up 26/5/8 on 63TS% and in theory, a Harden/Davis PnR sounds insane.

Raptors - Harden/AD

Mavs - Poeltl / RJ / Dick

LAC - IQ / Mogbo / Exum

Harden / Shead
Agbaji / Walter
Ingram / Battle
Barnes / CMB
Davis / Mamu

Then if you want, trade Temple + 2nd for Tony Bradley as your traditional backup C

Why would the Clippers trade Harden to us for only IQ and Mogbo?

OKC is already about to break the NBA with a historic season and Clippers unprotected FRP as is, trading Harden for only IQ and Mogbo would cement it (OKC already has tied for the best lotto odds via the Clippers FRP).

Also the continued love affair you have for Ochai is hilarious.

Because obviously there would be some level of draft compensation involved. The real question is why would LAC hold onto 36 year old Harden in a lost season (seasons?).

I don't understand your Ochai comment either. Literally didn't even bring him up at all

If these proposals include unlisted draft comp, there was no need to swap out Ochai for Gradey because ESPN doesn't even think we need to give up any of CMB/Ja'Kobe/Gradey even with us including a pick, only Poeltl+RJ+Ochai as the outgoing salary filler.

Ochai (expiring who likely won't even be tendered a QO) is unquestionably a less valuable asset than Gradey (1 cheap season left on his rookie scale after this one).

[YogurtProducer]

Why would the Clippers trade Harden to us for only IQ and Mogbo?

OKC is already about to break the NBA with a historic season and Clippers unprotected FRP as is, trading Harden for only IQ and Mogbo would cement it (OKC already has tied for the best lotto odds via the Clippers FRP).

Also the continued love affair you have for Ochai is hilarious.

Because obviously there would be some level of draft compensation involved. The real question is why would LAC hold onto 36 year old Harden in a lost season (seasons?).

I don't understand your Ochai comment either. Literally didn't even bring him up at all

If these proposals include unlisted draft comp, there was no need to swap out Ochai for Gradey because ESPN doesn't even think we need to give up any of CMB/Ja'Kobe/Gradey even with us including a pick, only Poeltl+RJ+Ochai as the outgoing salary filler.

Ochai (expiring who likely won't even be tendered a QO) is unquestionably a less valuable asset than Gradey (1 cheap season left on his rookie scale after this one).

I am not convinced Dick has a brighter future than Ochai tho, tbh. At least Ochai plays one side of the floor on at least an average level. Dick is below on both sides.

[Shakril]

Because obviously there would be some level of draft compensation involved. The real question is why would LAC hold onto 36 year old Harden in a lost season (seasons?).

I don't understand your Ochai comment either. Literally didn't even bring him up at all

If these proposals include unlisted draft comp, there was no need to swap out Ochai for Gradey because ESPN doesn't even think we need to give up any of CMB/Ja'Kobe/Gradey even with us including a pick, only Poeltl+RJ+Ochai as the outgoing salary filler.

Ochai (expiring who likely won't even be tendered a QO) is unquestionably a less valuable asset than Gradey (1 cheap season left on his rookie scale after this one).

I am not convinced Dick has a brighter future than Ochai tho, tbh. At least Ochai plays one side of the floor on at least an average level. Dick is below on both sides.

Yeah. I am also ready to move one from gradey. I rather have Battle play instead of him as battle is simply more reliable/consistent. Ochai at least plays decent defense, something that you can never have enough.

[Jerry Lucas]

If these proposals include unlisted draft comp, there was no need to swap out Ochai for Gradey because ESPN doesn't even think we need to give up any of CMB/Ja'Kobe/Gradey even with us including a pick, only Poeltl+RJ+Ochai as the outgoing salary filler.

Ochai (expiring who likely won't even be tendered a QO) is unquestionably a less valuable asset than Gradey (1 cheap season left on his rookie scale after this one).

I am not convinced Dick has a brighter future than Ochai tho, tbh. At least Ochai plays one side of the floor on at least an average level. Dick is below on both sides.

Yeah. I am also ready to move one from gradey. I rather have Battle play instead of him as battle is simply more reliable/consistent. Ochai at least plays decent defense, something that you can never have enough.

Ochai has quite literally been the worst player on the team this season and it isn't even close.

He's already accumulated -0.3 VORP in only 264 mins (-5.8 BPM).

[tdotrep2]

AD is a massive gamble for sure... but also, keeping quick and rj and riding this out is a gamble... less of one but one none the less with a lower ceiling. In terms of putting us over the top, if the stars align we could definitely take out anyone in the east this year. No one is beating okc tho.

[RaptorPride]

AD for RJ,Jak and a first is not buy low. It's buy at normal price value. Superstar prices are coming down back to the early 2000 days. Most teams are not gonna be offering 5 first for most superstars nowadays after seeing the what could happen to them like the Clips and Suns.

If this was AD when he was like 28 then sure but he's gonna be 33 at the end of the season. We are definitely gonna have to deal with his injuries if we do get him here so we gotta keep that also into account. We also have BI so things can get real bad.

I just think superstars can now play good into their 30s and put up good numbers but their impact on winning on a daily basis is not there. So it a big risk having a player paid like superstar on your team in the mid 30s. Numbers might be there but impact for the superstar contract is not there.

[YogurtProducer]

I am not convinced Dick has a brighter future than Ochai tho, tbh. At least Ochai plays one side of the floor on at least an average level. Dick is below on both sides.

Yeah. I am also ready to move one from gradey. I rather have Battle play instead of him as battle is simply more reliable/consistent. Ochai at least plays decent defense, something that you can never have enough.

Ochai has quite literally been the worst player on the team this season and it isn't even close.

He's already accumulated -0.3 VORP in only 264 mins (-5.8 BPM).

Yep, thats what happens when a guy who genreally shoots 35ish% from 3 has a 9% stretch. Again, as I've said a 100 times already, there is absolutely 0 point to read that deeply into a 21 shot sample.

But either way, if you got Davis (and in my theoretical, Harden) Ochai is the best candidate to play the 2 for you as he is in theory the best fit as a 3+D guy.

The other option is dangling CMB as well for help at the 2. Maybe DAL bites on a CMB / Christie type swap (With DAL compensating us for that).

Harden / Shead
Christie / Ochai
Ingram / Battle
Barnes / Mamu
Davis / Bradley

Honestly, kind of an intriguing squad.

[ArthurVandelay]

For the record, if one is being kept, I wouldn’t trade for AD. RJ isn’t a chump as the raptors struggles without him show. Now RJ isn’t AD either. But an injured AD doesn’t help the team. Him showing up to camp at 268lbs is a major flag. The guy has always been Charmin soft and is coasting in the twilight of his career, imo. It’s too bad, but pass.

[VanWest82]

AD is turning 33. The history of athletic bigs who’ve been oft injured getting into their mid-30s is almost universally awful. No thanks!

Also, contrary to popular belief, AD has always functioned best as a PF (same as Scottie) next to a true big, and then you can go small with him at C to finish games against certain opponents. So IOW we’d still need a big and ideally one who can shoot given Davis is inconsistent to say the least.

It’s just a terrible idea all around, especially given we’d surely have to give up some draft compensation which is super risky because the timeline for the current group might be as short as two years.

AD's best position is Centre in the playoffs or closing.

Right but you have to get him to the playoffs or even just closing mins. In order to do that, he needs to spend significant time, especially starting halves, next to a big. Even then it's a crapshoot, but playing AD as your full time big is not going to work. He can't stay on the floor like that.

[MEDIC]

Here's my take on trading RJ vs. IQ:

I think the Raptors struggle a lot more without RJ.

RJ's replacement player (Walter/ Dick) leaves us in a much worse position than Shead taking over for IQ. In fact, I don't think we see all that big of a drop off overall if Shead takes over for IQ. I think long term the team would actually be better with Shead getting those development minutes.

At the end of the day, it seems RJ's impact on winning > IQ's impact on winning.

[WWSRD]

They should go after Colby White.

Need a dynamic guard that can score.

[mdenny]

It's tough for me to even consider this because i have ZERO idea why the mavs would want Poetl and RJ or IQ. I suppose it could be a 3 team deal.

The only angle i could see is taking Poetl's contract in return for futures. Which would mean multiple picks.