Who do you support?

[redred9]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

you guys have it bent out of shape. The whole point is not that the players don't deserve to be rich- they deserve it as much as a rock star or famous artist or anyone who gets rich from people admiring them. All that stuff is beside the point- the whole argument is based on the fact that the owners of these teams are losing money. The NBA is a business.

The players are going to be rich regardless just like a lot of people who do things at an elite level.

[roundhead0]

So you don't think NBA players were their asses off?

Comparing ANY standard profession to pro athelete is silly. It's an entertainment industry. They get paid based on the popularity and ability to raise revenues, not based on how hard they work.

If Jordan Bird and Magic did not work hard and did not bust their asses and live up to every last ounce of potential that they could possibly muster, the NBA would be making about 1/3rd the revenues they make today.

Jordan, Bird, and Magic could have worked just as hard--if not harder--playing professional soccer in North America and soccer players on this continent would still mostly make a fraction of what their basketball counterparts make.

Soccer players work a lot harder than baseball players. Pro baseball players in North America make what, 50 times more than pro soccer players?

It's an entertainment industry. You need to work hard to make it to the pros, but the general level of compensation is not really based on how hard you work.

[Ditchweed]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

Not that stupid "hate and jealousy" nonsense again.

Why am I or most people not in the NBA? We are not 84 inches tall nor in the 0.00001% physical freak category. We have no illusions about being in the NBA and we are also not jealous of not being in the NBA. Besides, a lot of us did have scholarships, just not for basketball.

However, how about you, how come you are not in the NBA? It sounds like you tried but were not good enough to make it? Just a street ball groupie maybe? It seems like you are the one who is wishful and envious of their success.

[Ponchos]

Jordan, Bird, and Magic could have worked just as hard--if not harder--playing professional soccer in North America and soccer players on this continent would still mostly make a fraction of what their basketball counterparts make.

Soccer players work a lot harder than baseball players. Pro baseball players in North America make what, 50 times more than pro soccer players?

It's an entertainment industry. You need to work hard to make it to the pros, but the general level of compensation is not really based on how hard you work.

Uhh if Jordan worked as hard at playing soccer as he did at basketball he would've played for Man U or Real Madrid and made gazillions of dollars and be remembered as the best soccer player of all time..

Not really sure at all what your point is.

My point was that the hard work of Jordan, Bird and Magic directly resulted in billions of dollars in revenue for the NBA. If Jordan, Bird and Magic mailed it in, the NBA would have nowhere even close to its current value. Hence a direct correlation between work and revenues. One you seemed to struggle with.

[7-Day Dray]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

+1. It sounds like most of these guys making these comments are bitter that NBA players have more than they have.

And I am also on the players side. The owners are the ones that keep on overpaying mediocre players, and they're trying to make money back that they gave out without thinking.

[ruckus]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

you guys have it bent out of shape. The whole point is not that the players don't deserve to be rich- they deserve it as much as a rock star or famous artist or anyone who gets rich from people admiring them. All that stuff is beside the point- the whole argument is based on the fact that the owners of these teams are losing money. The NBA is a business.

The players are going to be rich regardless just like a lot of people who do things at an elite level.

These teams are not losing money because of the salaries that are being paid. These teams are losing money because of bad decision making. Moving teams to cities that can't support it. Giving ludicrous contracts to players who don't deserve it. Making bad draft pick after bad draft pick. I honestly find it ridiculous that the league has to put rules in place to save the owners from themselves.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that that many teams are losing money. If they were, why aren't more teams up for sale? Isn't that what occurs in the real world? A franchise is losing money, the owners can do one of a few things. One, shut it down. Two, put it up for sale. Three, bring in someone who can turn it around. Obviously, shutting an NBA team down is not an option.

[ruckus]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

Not that stupid "hate and jealousy" nonsense again.

Why am I or most people not in the NBA? We are not 84 inches tall nor in the 0.00001% physical freak category. We have no illusions about being in the NBA and we are also not jealous of not being in the NBA. Besides, a lot of us did have scholarships, just not for basketball.

However, how about you, how come you are not in the NBA? It sounds like you tried but were not good enough to make it? Just a street ball groupie maybe? It seems like you are the one who is wishful and envious of their success.

Questioning the hard work that NBA players put in doesn't come off as hate and jealousy to you?

I'm not in the NBA because one, I'm neither talented or athletic enough and two, I didn't work hard enough at it. I'm not sure how my comments made it seem that I am wishful and/or envious of their success. Maybe you can elaborate?

Also, I am now curious, what did you receive a scholarship for?

[7-Day Dray]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

you guys have it bent out of shape. The whole point is not that the players don't deserve to be rich- they deserve it as much as a rock star or famous artist or anyone who gets rich from people admiring them. All that stuff is beside the point- the whole argument is based on the fact that the owners of these teams are losing money. The NBA is a business.

The players are going to be rich regardless just like a lot of people who do things at an elite level.

These teams are not losing money because of the salaries that are being paid. These teams are losing money because of bad decision making. Moving teams to cities that can't support it. Giving ludicrous contracts to players who don't deserve it. Making bad draft pick after bad draft pick. I honestly find it ridiculous that the league has to put rules in place to save the owners from themselves.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that that many teams are losing money. If they were, why aren't more teams up for sale? Isn't that what occurs in the real world? A franchise is losing money, the owners can do one of a few things. One, shut it down. Two, put it up for sale. Three, bring in someone who can turn it around. Obviously, shutting an NBA team down is not an option.

[Kordic27]

Jordan, Bird, and Magic could have worked just as hard--if not harder--playing professional soccer in North America and soccer players on this continent would still mostly make a fraction of what their basketball counterparts make.

Soccer players work a lot harder than baseball players. Pro baseball players in North America make what, 50 times more than pro soccer players?

It's an entertainment industry. You need to work hard to make it to the pros, but the general level of compensation is not really based on how hard you work.

Uhh if Jordan worked as hard at playing soccer as he did at basketball he would've played for Man U or Real Madrid and made gazillions of dollars and be remembered as the best soccer player of all time..

Not really sure at all what your point is.

My point was that the hard work of Jordan, Bird and Magic directly resulted in billions of dollars in revenue for the NBA. If Jordan, Bird and Magic mailed it in, the NBA would have nowhere even close to its current value. Hence a direct correlation between work and revenues. One you seemed to struggle with.

I think everyone agrees that NBA players work hard, and that they deserve to be paid handsomely based on the revenue from what their profession brings in. The question is whether the amount of work they do, when compared to other professions, deserves that kind of compensation. I can say that I have trained with world class athletes at the national rowing centre in Victoria. Rowing is a sport with little flash, style or glory - I would say it's a hell of a lot less fun than basketball, and the people who take it to the top level train every bit as hard, if not harder, than NBA players. And, having had that experience training, and now having had the experience of working a real job, I'd prefer the training as a profession. Hell, I would take my equivalent pay now to train, let alone millions and millions of dollars, and I think most people would. And my point is that NBA work is preferable to normal work.

[Greg Stink]

One side keeps giving and the other is offering nothing but threats. This is not a negotiation.

Just imagine if the players suddenly demanded 7% more BRI and bigger, longer contracts. It could just as easily be the case. What if the players didn't accept just one year added to contracts and 3% more BRI. What if they thought they should make what they made 10 years ago? The owners are just flipping off everybody and counting on the public to turn on the players, who in reality are the only ones trying to make a deal.

What really bothers me is the "system is broken" argument. The finals happened, small market teams did well, no teams folded. It didn't break. The owners are choosing to break the system and reset it, or else- as if things could possibly get worse for anyone if the system broke than no basketball, which totally on them. It's a preposterous bluff by a side with no respect for the other.

If the owners were reasonable and took the concessions the players are willing to make, what's the worst that could happen? A couple sick-baby teams fold and bad players play elsewhere? The Pacers don't get paid on time? Who cares... Not the remaining owners, and not the fans who don't go. The owners would not stand united to prevent this. They just want more and think they can get it.

The only real truths are that Obama loves basketball and greasing big business. He's got his best man on the case.

[redred9]

These teams are not losing money because of the salaries that are being paid. These teams are losing money because of bad decision making. Moving teams to cities that can't support it. Giving ludicrous contracts to players who don't deserve it. Making bad draft pick after bad draft pick. I honestly find it ridiculous that the league has to put rules in place to save the owners from themselves.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that that many teams are losing money. If they were, why aren't more teams up for sale? Isn't that what occurs in the real world? A franchise is losing money, the owners can do one of a few things. One, shut it down. Two, put it up for sale. Three, bring in someone who can turn it around. Obviously, shutting an NBA team down is not an option.

bad decision making is always going to be a part of sporting teams in any code because so much of GMing a ball club relies on guesswork and chance. I believe only 8 teams made profit last season out of 30. The San Antonio Spurs, often held up as a model small market franchise, has apparently mostly broke even the entire Duncan era according to their fans. If they rebuild and make a wrong decision they will be bleeding money and would be a good possibility to relocate. These small market teams need to be protected unless the NBA wants to become a 10 team league just in the major markets which the players union would certainly be the first to oppose.

The same bad decisions have always been made in the NBA and yet the product was profitable. Now it's not. Thus the lockout.

[Ponchos]

I think everyone agrees that NBA players work hard, and that they deserve to be paid handsomely based on the revenue from what their profession brings in.

Everyone does not agree on those points. Read this thread. Lots do not think NBA players work hard, and lots do not think they deserve to be paid handsomely.

The question is whether the amount of work they do, when compared to other professions, deserves that kind of compensation. I can say that I have trained with world class athletes at the national rowing centre in Victoria. Rowing is a sport with little flash, style or glory - I would say it's a hell of a lot less fun than basketball, and the people who take it to the top level train every bit as hard, if not harder, than NBA players. And, having had that experience training, and now having had the experience of working a real job, I'd prefer the training as a profession.

I would agree that there are many people who work very hard at sports that are not lucrative. However, if the players do not deserve their agreed upon share of the revenues, who does? It has to go somewhere. Should even more go to the owners? Over 20% of those guys inherited their wealth, should they get a lil more?

Hell, I would take my equivalent pay now to train, let alone millions and millions of dollars, and I think most people would. And my point is that NBA work is preferable to normal work.

That's all fine and good, but doesn't really matter. Many jobs are preferable to others. I would rather be a lawyer than a doctor (never much cared for blood), and there are many people who feel the exact opposite.

In fact, if I had the option to exchange my career for Kobe's work/training schedule (with my jobs pay), I would take my job any day of the week. I would find the workout grind mind numbing, I enjoy working out but only up to a point. Not to mention the horrific travel grind. I couldn't imagine having to fly around the continent as much as these guys do.

[Parataxis]

Most of the comments that seem to side with the owners just come off as hate and jealousy. If making the NBA was so easy and required so little work, why are none of you in the NBA? How many of you are going to or have attended a NCAA college on a full-ride scholarship?

I'm firmly on the players side. They have less than 5 years to make their money and, God forbid they get an injury that cuts it short. I'm all for them making as much as they can in that short timeframe.

Not that stupid "hate and jealousy" nonsense again.

Why am I or most people not in the NBA? We are not 84 inches tall nor in the 0.00001% physical freak category. We have no illusions about being in the NBA and we are also not jealous of not being in the NBA. Besides, a lot of us did have scholarships, just not for basketball.

However, how about you, how come you are not in the NBA? It sounds like you tried but were not good enough to make it? Just a street ball groupie maybe? It seems like you are the one who is wishful and envious of their success.

Questioning the hard work that NBA players put in doesn't come off as hate and jealousy to you?

I'm not in the NBA because one, I'm neither talented or athletic enough and two, I didn't work hard enough at it. I'm not sure how my comments made it seem that I am wishful and/or envious of their success. Maybe you can elaborate?

Also, I am now curious, what did you receive a scholarship for?

Logic.

[Firesphere]

I support the owners. Although it is largely due to their lack of "business" skills and more their greed to win that has brought them to losing money, I think it would make more sense if the league was set up in a way that would create a more competitive market without overpaying for talent, one which rewards superstars staying with their team which drafted them... What Lebron did to the Cavs was dirty, and it seems like none of the players care, what happened to basketball players getting drafted to a team and bleeding that color throughout their career?

[CPT]

At this point I don't particularly care any more how much the players make. To me, 50/50 sounds fair, but if it was 55/45 or 60/40, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

However, I do think steps need to be made to fix the system. What went down last summer in Miami was interesting, but I really believe it should not have been able to happen. A hard(er) cap, more incentive to stay with the team that drafted you (starting with longer but more lucrative rookie contracts), sign and trades replaced by a system of compensatory draft picks, with less money/years for the player who chooses to take his talents to South Beach, New York, LA or Chicago. I don't have all the ideas, but it shouldn't be too hard to create a system where teams like Indiana, Minnesota, and Milwaukee (and Toronto?) are not glorified farm systems.

[ItsDanger]

I support the people who rely on this sport to make a half-decent living.

I dont give a **** about the owners or players.

The players should get the remaining revenues after all overheads are taken out and a reasonable profit for the owners (i.e at least 10% factoring in franchise appreciation). Key point here is the arena costs. WHo do you think should pay for that? Owners? Players? Both? Or the taxpayers? I think you know who usually gets stuck with that bill.

[RapZilla]

Times are tough out there, we all gotta tighten our belts.

Fact is... the business owners are the ones who take the risk and should be making most of the revenue (or losing it if the business isn't successful). Players are employees and are paid like gods regardless of how much money the team makes.

[Fairview4Life]

Times are tough out there, we all gotta tighten our belts.

Times have never been better for NBA teams.

[roundhead0]

Times are tough out there, we all gotta tighten our belts.

Fact is... the business owners are the ones who take the risk and should be making most of the revenue (or losing it if the business isn't successful). Players are employees and are paid like gods regardless of how much money the team makes.

To be fair, in this case the revenues are generated primarily based on the fairly unique and very hard to replace skills of the employees, and so it is very fair that they get a healthy chunk of the revenues in return.

This isn't some semi-pro league with thousands of players that could step in and play. These are elite players, and the levels of revenues the teams generate are because of the elite level of talent (properly marketed and managed, of course). Owners have a right to have the revenues shared in a way where they get decent return for their investment, but players definitely deserve their fair share.

[Greg Stink]

Times are tough out there, we all gotta tighten our belts.

Times have never been better for NBA teams.

Right- the hard line is a joke. The league didn't fold when it was in far worse shape, things are trending upward and the way the players keep giving the owners are 2 CBAs away from what they want anyway.

This is a small group counting on a bigger group to implode first. It would be nice if the owners stood together on the issue of over-paying players, instead of out-bidding themselves or purposefully driving the market upward for one another and then crying about the state of the market.

The contracts which are limiting teams are usually stupid from minute one. Players are routinely turned from asset to liability with a contract that only one team would follow through with. The owners are the ones who put the NBAs middle-class in the penthouse... why can't bad businesses just fail?

I suggest the owners negotiate contracts better, like maybe hire a negotiator BEFORE you lock the players out for taking what you gave them and only agreeing to give back some of it for nothing... AGAIN.