Tank World Order

[mdenny]

Anyone think denver would take siakam for Harris, MPJ and Zeke?

Trade value doesn't swing wildly because of 5 to 10 game stretches. It would be a tank-like move depending on ur definition. Siakam and Jokic seems like a good combo and denver may need to make a bold move if their struggles continue. It works in the trade checker.

The potential cap hold on MPJ looks delicious in two years. Doing this combined with converting Lowry into a late first+prospect in addition to our existing picks and Flynn probably puts us at year 3 in a typical 5 year rebuild.

[mtcan]

Anyone think denver would take siakam for Harris, MPJ and Zeke?

Trade value doesn't swing wildly because of 5 to 10 game stretches. It would be a tank-like move depending on ur definition. Siakam and Jokic seems like a good combo and denver may need to make a bold move if their struggles continue. It works in the trade checker.

The potential cap hold on MPJ looks delicious in two years. Doing this combined with converting Lowry into a late first+prospect in addition to our existing picks and Flynn probably puts us at year 3 in a typical 5 year rebuild.

Porter is a much bigger trade chip than Siakam. I wouldn't make the move if I am Denver.

[mdenny]

Anyone think denver would take siakam for Harris, MPJ and Zeke?

Trade value doesn't swing wildly because of 5 to 10 game stretches. It would be a tank-like move depending on ur definition. Siakam and Jokic seems like a good combo and denver may need to make a bold move if their struggles continue. It works in the trade checker.

The potential cap hold on MPJ looks delicious in two years. Doing this combined with converting Lowry into a late first+prospect in addition to our existing picks and Flynn probably puts us at year 3 in a typical 5 year rebuild.

Porter is a much bigger trade chip than Siakam. I wouldn't make the move if I am Denver.

You might be right. But would you say that before the season started? Again....I don't think GMs assessments of players swing wildly with streaks and droughts. Also....denver will have no choice but to make a bold move of their struggles continue. They're not giving up on Jokic/Murray. I think siakam is a really good fit. Also works in trade checker.

[JaysRule25]

Yea, I'm all for tanking this season. But OG should absolutely be part of the next core. People forget that he's still only 23 and his best years are ahead of him. I don't think OG is ever gonna be that guy who fully comes into his own offensively and becomes a top scoring option on the team, but I do think OG has it in him to be a top 3 3+D guy in the NBA. There's always room for a guy like that on a modern NBA roster.

Imo OG should be the only untouchable on the team right now.

[mtcan]

Anyone think denver would take siakam for Harris, MPJ and Zeke?

Trade value doesn't swing wildly because of 5 to 10 game stretches. It would be a tank-like move depending on ur definition. Siakam and Jokic seems like a good combo and denver may need to make a bold move if their struggles continue. It works in the trade checker.

The potential cap hold on MPJ looks delicious in two years. Doing this combined with converting Lowry into a late first+prospect in addition to our existing picks and Flynn probably puts us at year 3 in a typical 5 year rebuild.

Porter is a much bigger trade chip than Siakam. I wouldn't make the move if I am Denver.

You might be right. But would you say that before the season started? Again....I don't think GMs assessments of players swing wildly with streaks and droughts. Also....denver will have no choice but to make a bold move of their struggles continue. They're not giving up on Jokic/Murray. I think siakam is a really good fit. Also works in trade checker.

Based on upside alone...and his performance since the second half of last season...especially to Siakam's bubble performance...the answer is absolutely YES. Porter has big shot maker potential...which is a step above Siakam's potential.

[mdenny]

Porter is a much bigger trade chip than Siakam. I wouldn't make the move if I am Denver.

You might be right. But would you say that before the season started? Again....I don't think GMs assessments of players swing wildly with streaks and droughts. Also....denver will have no choice but to make a bold move of their struggles continue. They're not giving up on Jokic/Murray. I think siakam is a really good fit. Also works in trade checker.

Based on upside alone...and his performance since the second half of last season...especially to Siakam's bubble performance...the answer is absolutely YES. Porter has big shot maker potential...which is a step above Siakam's potential.

Fair enough. I still think denver is the list likely destination. What about harris, Zeke, salary filler and picks? (Maybe 1 first, 1 second)

I've been trying to think of two major moves for siakam and lowry which would kickstart a rebuild. Rhe other being the bandied about philly trade sending Lowry for green/scott/thybulle/First rounder.

Those two trades would net us the following for the start of 2023 season (only 2 years away):

Thybulle
Flynn
Zeke
Our 2022 first
Our 2023 first
Denver 2022 first
Philly 2023 first

That's alot of spins at the roulette wheel and it all comes into fruition 2 years from now. Not some painfully long process.

[Bruin]

Yea, I'm all for tanking this season. But OG should absolutely be part of the next core. People forget that he's still only 23 and his best years are ahead of him. I don't think OG is ever gonna be that guy who fully comes into his own offensively and becomes a top scoring option on the team, but I do think OG has it in him to be a top 3 3+D guy in the NBA. There's always room for a guy like that on a modern NBA roster.

Imo OG should be the only untouchable on the team right now.

Yeah I think OG and Malachi (at least until we see what we have with him) should be the only pieces that we have to keep. Anyone else should be available for assets in a rebuild

[KL78192020]

Some of yall really have zero patience to see things through.

What exactly are you trying to see through? Everyone knew once Gasol/Ibaka were gone this team would suffer. There really isn't anything unknown about this team that's going to suddenly make them a contender. I think the majority predicated a 6-8 seed, which is still possible if thats the direction Masai/Webster want the team to go in.

[Yeezus_]

Not core agreed, but still need to extend... we have no bigs...OG is not core.... nor is Pascal.... but we may be stuck with them short term ...

OG is definitely a part of the core, not sure why you think otherwise. He's a top 5 defender in the league and is 23 years old averaging 12/7/2 even while he's struggling. Relax.

People are impatient. Even last night, despite the poor shooting, OG was a positive on the floor. 17, 7 and 3 on 5/11 shooting.

Once his shooting starts to normalize, there's ZERO reason to get rid of a 23 year old SF like that.

Funny part is, you would typically be happy to draft someone like OG with a lottery pick right now but some people want to get rid of him. It makes zero sense to me.

[Yeezus_]

Some of yall really have zero patience to see things through.

What exactly are you trying to see through? Everyone knew once Gasol/Ibaka were gone this team would suffer. There really isn't anything unknown about this team that's going to suddenly make them a contender. I think the majority predicated a 6-8 seed, which is still possible if thats the direction Masai/Webster want the team to go in.

Well I was always with the belief that the 2019-2020 team and this years team were always bridge years for internal growth and to eventually retool the team this coming summer with our cap space. I highly doubt Masai wants to tank.

[KL78192020]

Some of yall really have zero patience to see things through.

What exactly are you trying to see through? Everyone knew once Gasol/Ibaka were gone this team would suffer. There really isn't anything unknown about this team that's going to suddenly make them a contender. I think the majority predicated a 6-8 seed, which is still possible if thats the direction Masai/Webster want the team to go in.

Well I was always with the belief that the 2019-2020 team and this years team were always bridge years for internal growth and to eventually retool the team this coming summer with our cap space. I highly doubt Masai wants to tank.

That would be great if the team had promising you players/assets to develop, which we don't outside of Flynn. Masai took a good risk hoping to sign Giannis, it didn't work and we lost two of the key guys from 2019-2020 team. There really isn't much room left for internal growth. FVV/Siakam are what they are, both will be 27 soon. OG might still have some growth left in him, but outside of that there isn't much internal growth left.

[mdenny]

What exactly are you trying to see through? Everyone knew once Gasol/Ibaka were gone this team would suffer. There really isn't anything unknown about this team that's going to suddenly make them a contender. I think the majority predicated a 6-8 seed, which is still possible if thats the direction Masai/Webster want the team to go in.

Well I was always with the belief that the 2019-2020 team and this years team were always bridge years for internal growth and to eventually retool the team this coming summer with our cap space. I highly doubt Masai wants to tank.

That would be great if the team had promising you players/assets to develop, which we don't outside of Flynn. Masai took a good risk hoping to sign Giannis, it didn't work and we lost two of the key guys from 2019-2020 team. There really isn't much room left for internal growth. FVV/Siakam are what they are, both will be 27 soon. OG might still have some growth left in him, but outside of that there isn't much internal growth left.

Yah....for some perspective....we had a great 7 year run including a chip and THEN we had a puncher's shot at Giannis. There's no way Masai would have planned for it if there was NO chance.

The Giannis risk shouldn't be so heavily criticized. We didn't actually lose anything. Ibaka doesn't contribute anything except PERHAPS A final outcome of one seed higher in the bottom 4. Giannis was a potential 3 year serious contender.

Whatever we could have got for flipping Ibaka is what we risked for a chance of 3 years of Giannis without losing anyone on the roster. That's a chance you take. Especially given the personal relationship. The price for the Giannis gamble is probably not even a late first round pick. More likely 2 second rounders.

[Steelo Green]

The third best player on Denver is more valuable than the first best player here, and people don't even believe in them to win a title.

We should def keep going with what we have.

Winning culture is a farce, winning a title led by Kawhi blinded people to the Derozan days when we were a laughing stock.

[omar36]

The third best player on Denver is more valuable than the first best player here, and people don't even believe in them to win a title.

We should def keep going with what we have.

Winning culture is a farce, winning a title led by Kawhi blinded people to the Derozan days when we were a laughing stock.

yeah, like i got last year we had no chance but it was still fun to watch these guys get the chance but the honeymoon period is over now. I want more championships and the sad reality is we arent ever going to win with this roster as it stands.

masai knows it, i think he thought ginanis was a possbility but thankfully he already signed instead of prolonging it which would have made masai hesitant to switch it up. now he really has no reason to worry bout that max cap space, thers no good FA out there that can help us get over the hump. we need a legit star and if we cant get harden, we are going to be a good team tht bows out of the first/2nd round for years.

[Hero]

Yea, I'm all for tanking this season. But OG should absolutely be part of the next core. People forget that he's still only 23 and his best years are ahead of him. I don't think OG is ever gonna be that guy who fully comes into his own offensively and becomes a top scoring option on the team, but I do think OG has it in him to be a top 3 3+D guy in the NBA. There's always room for a guy like that on a modern NBA roster.

Imo OG should be the only untouchable on the team right now.

The best highlight for the guy in your sig is an uncontested dunk?

[T-d0t]

Yea, I'm all for tanking this season. But OG should absolutely be part of the next core. People forget that he's still only 23 and his best years are ahead of him. I don't think OG is ever gonna be that guy who fully comes into his own offensively and becomes a top scoring option on the team, but I do think OG has it in him to be a top 3 3+D guy in the NBA. There's always room for a guy like that on a modern NBA roster.

Imo OG should be the only untouchable on the team right now.

The best highlight for the guy in your sig is an uncontested dunk?

My guy right here

Watch on YouTube

[Pooh_Jeter]

There shouldn't be a single untouchable on this roster. It's unlikely to make any sense to move Flynn given he is a rookie and we have no idea what he properly looks like. OG does still potentially fit in the timeline of a rebuild, but an elite role player doesn't help a rebuilding effort. He is completely reliant on others for his own offense and having a nice wing defender isn't much use on a team that isn't going to be very good. He has also looks exposed when asked to do anything more than his skillset allows. It makes much more sense to cash in on him like a Covington was. Get someone on a rookie deal who fits the timeline and you can even sign some short term FAs who can replicate most of what he brings.

[NinjaBro]

There shouldn't be a single untouchable on this roster. It's unlikely to make any sense to move Flynn given he is a rookie and we have no idea what he properly looks like. OG does still potentially fit in the timeline of a rebuild, but an elite role player doesn't help a rebuilding effort. He is completely reliant on others for his own offense and having a nice wing defender isn't much use on a team that isn't going to be very good. He has also looks exposed when asked to do anything more than his skillset allows. It makes much more sense to cash in on him like a Covington was. Get someone on a rookie deal who fits the timeline and you can even sign some short term FAs who can replicate most of what he brings.

We keep Flynn and Boucher because he's cheap and highly productive. Everyone else can go

[Pooh_Jeter]

There shouldn't be a single untouchable on this roster. It's unlikely to make any sense to move Flynn given he is a rookie and we have no idea what he properly looks like. OG does still potentially fit in the timeline of a rebuild, but an elite role player doesn't help a rebuilding effort. He is completely reliant on others for his own offense and having a nice wing defender isn't much use on a team that isn't going to be very good. He has also looks exposed when asked to do anything more than his skillset allows. It makes much more sense to cash in on him like a Covington was. Get someone on a rookie deal who fits the timeline and you can even sign some short term FAs who can replicate most of what he brings.

We keep Flynn and Boucher because he's cheap and highly productive. Everyone else can go

Boucher is cool, it will be interesting to see how he fares with consistent big minutes. The problem is he is on a 2 year deal and while it seems like he is part of a young core, he is already 27. If a team covets him, he can definitely go too. It's easy to find cheap and decent bigs and PGs.

[Yeezus_]

What exactly are you trying to see through? Everyone knew once Gasol/Ibaka were gone this team would suffer. There really isn't anything unknown about this team that's going to suddenly make them a contender. I think the majority predicated a 6-8 seed, which is still possible if thats the direction Masai/Webster want the team to go in.

Well I was always with the belief that the 2019-2020 team and this years team were always bridge years for internal growth and to eventually retool the team this coming summer with our cap space. I highly doubt Masai wants to tank.

That would be great if the team had promising you players/assets to develop, which we don't outside of Flynn. Masai took a good risk hoping to sign Giannis, it didn't work and we lost two of the key guys from 2019-2020 team. There really isn't much room left for internal growth. FVV/Siakam are what they are, both will be 27 soon. OG might still have some growth left in him, but outside of that there isn't much internal growth left.

If you dont think there's room for growth between Fred, Siakam, OG, Flynn, and Davis then I dont know what to say. Rather than complaining about the direction of the team, why cant we all just hope they get back on track and be competitive like last season. Clearly our front office thought we'd be fine without Ibaka/Gasol. Masai is probably the best executive in the league, lets see what happens this summer with our $30M+ in cap space. All i know is we arent tanking with this team.