Windhorst - "Sixers wouldn't give up Maxey"

[macNcheese3]

Maxey has somewhat come back down to earth. He’s either scoring a ton or not doing much. We’ve been able to contain him.

He appears to be just standing around and not getting the ball that much to me. If Doc Rivers adjusts, he should put the ball in his hands more and see if he can go off.

You nailed it. He’s not as involved. He cooled off a little which is a good thing. Let’s see how he comes out for game 5.

[WaltFrazier]

Maxey has somewhat come back down to earth. He’s either scoring a ton or not doing much. We’ve been able to contain him.

He appears to be just standing around and not getting the ball that much to me. If Doc Rivers adjusts, he should put the ball in his hands more and see if he can go off.

You nailed it. He’s not as involved. He cooled off a little which is a good thing. Let’s see how he comes out for game 5.

Yeah I'd say the Sixers coaches have to do with Maxey being less involved. It's a big decision because Harden has the ball so, to send James off ball would be a big change.

[macNcheese3]

He appears to be just standing around and not getting the ball that much to me. If Doc Rivers adjusts, he should put the ball in his hands more and see if he can go off.

You nailed it. He’s not as involved. He cooled off a little which is a good thing. Let’s see how he comes out for game 5.

Yeah I'd say the Sixers coaches have to do with Maxey being less involved. It's a big decision because Harden has the ball so, to send James off ball would be a big change.

That’s right. Harden with the ball in his hands can get everyone else involved, he’s a good playmaker. We’ve yet to see him have a huge scoring game though, Embiid has been taking care of most of the scoring.

[Los_29]

Anyone with eyes could see the long lineup was a huge factor in winning the game.

Anyone who's honest could see Fred could not guard Maxey in the first three games.

Even if we put Gary on Maxey and Fred on Danny, Green just sets a screen for Harden and they have Fred on Harden. They were hunting Fred for 3 games.

A healthy Fred is a different story but his knee has slowed his lateral defense for a couple months now

Walt, we aren't discussing how effective the long lineup was. We are discussing the fact that you blatantly made stuff up just so you can get a few cheap shots in on an injured Fred. That's the issue. LOL.

No one is discussing the first three games. Your comment was about game 4. Here is what you said again:

"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

This was false. Everything about it was false.

The funny thing is you don't even need to try hard to find stats that tell you how poorly Fred has played in these playoffs. And yet you didn't even try to find them. You just made them up.

I just laugh at your trolling, moving the goalposts every argument.

Maxey blew by Fred many times in three games. Whether Maxey scored in the short time Fred played or not, it's not a stretch to assume if Fred stayed in game 4 Maxey would have scored more. That's an informed opinion or prediction, based on recent past performance. I don't claim it's a fact, but a likelihood. To call that a lie or dishonest on my part is absurd. But that's the misleading way you like to argue.

Trolling? No, I’m pointing out YOUR trolling. Pointing out false statements and bad takes isn’t trolling.

So now you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4? Do you even realize what you’re saying right now? You’re not making any sense.

The fact you don’t think there is anything wrong with making stuff up just so you can continue kicking someone while they are down is frankly a bit disturbing.

You don’t post things as if they are facts when they are not. This should be common sense.

[WaltFrazier]

Walt, we aren't discussing how effective the long lineup was. We are discussing the fact that you blatantly made stuff up just so you can get a few cheap shots in on an injured Fred. That's the issue. LOL.

No one is discussing the first three games. Your comment was about game 4. Here is what you said again:

"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

This was false. Everything about it was false.

The funny thing is you don't even need to try hard to find stats that tell you how poorly Fred has played in these playoffs. And yet you didn't even try to find them. You just made them up.

I just laugh at your trolling, moving the goalposts every argument.

Maxey blew by Fred many times in three games. Whether Maxey scored in the short time Fred played or not, it's not a stretch to assume if Fred stayed in game 4 Maxey would have scored more. That's an informed opinion or prediction, based on recent past performance. I don't claim it's a fact, but a likelihood. To call that a lie or dishonest on my part is absurd. But that's the misleading way you like to argue.

Trolling? No, I’m pointing out YOUR trolling. Pointing out false statements and bad takes isn’t trolling.

So now you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4? Do you even realize what you’re saying right now? You’re not making any sense.

The fact you don’t think there is anything wrong with making stuff up just so you can continue kicking someone while they are down is frankly a bit disturbing.

You don’t post things as if they are facts when they are not. This should be common sense.

Gee I explained it so clearly and you still misrepresent. You know the word prediction, right, what it means? Maxey was 0-3 in the short time Fred played. I don't recall if Fred guarded him, nor have you mentioned it. But obviously, clearly, I was saying that if Fred HAD played the whole game, ie not got hurt, then Maxey likely would have scored more than the 11 he got. Is that a fact? No. Is it a lie I made up? No, It's my opinion, my projection, based on the other 3 games. If you want to say no Fred's defense was just fine, then that's not fact either, it's your opinion. If you want to project that if Fred had played the whole game, Maxey would have scored the same or less, that would be your opinion.

Just to make it even clearer:

you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4?

No, I was saying he beat Fred a lot in the first 3 games, and if Fred had played all of the game, his normal minutes instead of 15 minutes, Maxey would have scored more. And having 5 bigs, or 4 bigs and Gary the rest of the game helped hold him down.

You created a straw man, a false narrative, in saying I said he was scoring on Fred in game 4. That's what you do.

[WaltFrazier]

Walt, we aren't discussing how effective the long lineup was. We are discussing the fact that you blatantly made stuff up just so you can get a few cheap shots in on an injured Fred. That's the issue. LOL.

No one is discussing the first three games. Your comment was about game 4. Here is what you said again:

"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

This was false. Everything about it was false.

The funny thing is you don't even need to try hard to find stats that tell you how poorly Fred has played in these playoffs. And yet you didn't even try to find them. You just made them up.

I just laugh at your trolling, moving the goalposts every argument.

Maxey blew by Fred many times in three games. Whether Maxey scored in the short time Fred played or not, it's not a stretch to assume if Fred stayed in game 4 Maxey would have scored more. That's an informed opinion or prediction, based on recent past performance. I don't claim it's a fact, but a likelihood. To call that a lie or dishonest on my part is absurd. But that's the misleading way you like to argue.

Are there any possessions in particular where OG/Gary/Siakam/Barnes were able to keep Maxey in front of them and the spacing was the same as when Fred was on them? Honestly, I think Maxey blows by most of the league and it's not just because he's quick but because the offensive player always has the advantage in these situations.

That being said I recall some possessions where Maxey was trying to bring the ball up court but had Scottie picking him up at full court. Obviously Fred is able to do this really well (ask Curry ) but it's really physically grueling and I don't think he can handle it very easily

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Yeah that's fair, you'd have to look at a game replay each possession to see. For sure a healthy Fred could do better guarding a quick guard than Fred now. I do feel like Fred is best at chasing Curry around without the ball, probably THE best at guarding him. But not so good at keeping a guy like Trae, Morant etc in front of him on the dribble. But you're right, who can. In any case, Fred recently even before the hip injury, has lost lateral quickness due to his balky knee. I think that's fairly clear. He was still effective sometimes at helping out, digging at the ball, but everything is affected by being a step slow. I'd love Fred to be healed miraculously overnight, 100% healthy tomorrow. But realistically I don't think his knee is getting better till the off season. No idea about the hip.

[Los_29]

I just laugh at your trolling, moving the goalposts every argument.

Maxey blew by Fred many times in three games. Whether Maxey scored in the short time Fred played or not, it's not a stretch to assume if Fred stayed in game 4 Maxey would have scored more. That's an informed opinion or prediction, based on recent past performance. I don't claim it's a fact, but a likelihood. To call that a lie or dishonest on my part is absurd. But that's the misleading way you like to argue.

Trolling? No, I’m pointing out YOUR trolling. Pointing out false statements and bad takes isn’t trolling.

So now you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4? Do you even realize what you’re saying right now? You’re not making any sense.

The fact you don’t think there is anything wrong with making stuff up just so you can continue kicking someone while they are down is frankly a bit disturbing.

You don’t post things as if they are facts when they are not. This should be common sense.

Gee I explained it so clearly and you still misrepresent. You know the word prediction, right, what it means? Maxey was 0-3 in the short time Fred played. I don't recall if Fred guarded him, nor have you mentioned it. But obviously, clearly, I was saying that if Fred HAD played the whole game, ie not got hurt, then Maxey likely would have scored more than the 11 he got. Is that a fact? No. Is it a lie I made up? No, It's my opinion, my projection, based on the other 3 games. If you want to say no Fred's defense was just fine, then that's not fact either, it's your opinion. If you want to project that if Fred had played the whole game, Maxey would have scored the same or less, that would be your opinion.

Just to make it even clearer:

you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4?

No, I was saying he beat Fred a lot in the first 3 games, and if Fred had played all of the game, his normal minutes instead of 15 minutes, Maxey would have scored more. And having 5 bigs, or 4 bigs and Gary the rest of the game helped hold him down.

You created a straw man, a false narrative, in saying I said he was scoring on Fred in game 4. That's what you do.

Walt, you're digging yourself an even deeper hole here. You made a statement that was wrong. Your statement suggested it was a fact. When I pointed out that it was wrong, YOU moved the goalposts (not me) and brought up irrelevant points such as "Anyone with eyes could see the long lineup was a huge factor in winning the game" or "Anyone who's honest could see Fred could not guard Maxey in the first three games." This has nothing to do with the statement you made. The statement you made was referring to game 4. Maxey was 0-3 when Fred was in the game. Then you backtracked and stated that you were just making assumptions based on Fred's play in games 1 and 2. You made this statement because you wanted to pile on Fred.

And no, there is no strawman or false narrative being created here. I've quoted you directly numerous times and I will quote you again. This is what you said:
"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

It literally could not be any more clear as to what you were implying with this statement. This statement was wrong and I proved it.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

[WaltFrazier]

Only halftime, but the long lineup defense is containing guys tonight, giving them trouble.

[Los_29]

This is why Precious has a higher ceiling. Their ceilings aren't even comparable.

[ash_k]

Only halftime, but the long lineup defense is containing guys tonight, giving them trouble.

You put some length on him and he is History

[Basketball_Jones]

Maxey has somewhat come back down to earth. He’s either scoring a ton or not doing much. We’ve been able to contain him.

He appears to be just standing around and not getting the ball that much to me. If Doc Rivers adjusts, he should put the ball in his hands more and see if he can go off.

You nailed it. He’s not as involved. He cooled off a little which is a good thing. Let’s see how he comes out for game 5.

Welp, Maxey got the ball and attacked a lot more tonight and still nothing. Just contained a lot better on the close outs and having Gary and OG guarding him on ball.

[kalel123]

Been refraining from getting involved in this debate but I'll say this. If Precious Achiuwa can cut down on dumb mistakes, there's no question who's the better prospect. He's worlds apart from where he was at the beginning of the season.

[Madhouse]

Maxey looking extremely mortal without FVV on the court.

[Los_29]

Only halftime, but the long lineup defense is containing guys tonight, giving them trouble.

You put some length on him and he is History

And not making 70% of his open threes anymore. Who would've thought?

[TrustFundBaby]

Achiuwa can play both ends, Maxey can't

A small scoring combo guard is a dime a dozen in this league. Achiuwa types are super rare.

[TeamDisgruntled]

Trolling? No, I’m pointing out YOUR trolling. Pointing out false statements and bad takes isn’t trolling.

So now you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4? Do you even realize what you’re saying right now? You’re not making any sense.

The fact you don’t think there is anything wrong with making stuff up just so you can continue kicking someone while they are down is frankly a bit disturbing.

You don’t post things as if they are facts when they are not. This should be common sense.

Gee I explained it so clearly and you still misrepresent. You know the word prediction, right, what it means? Maxey was 0-3 in the short time Fred played. I don't recall if Fred guarded him, nor have you mentioned it. But obviously, clearly, I was saying that if Fred HAD played the whole game, ie not got hurt, then Maxey likely would have scored more than the 11 he got. Is that a fact? No. Is it a lie I made up? No, It's my opinion, my projection, based on the other 3 games. If you want to say no Fred's defense was just fine, then that's not fact either, it's your opinion. If you want to project that if Fred had played the whole game, Maxey would have scored the same or less, that would be your opinion.

Just to make it even clearer:

you’re making assumptions that Maxey was just beating Fred in game 4?

No, I was saying he beat Fred a lot in the first 3 games, and if Fred had played all of the game, his normal minutes instead of 15 minutes, Maxey would have scored more. And having 5 bigs, or 4 bigs and Gary the rest of the game helped hold him down.

You created a straw man, a false narrative, in saying I said he was scoring on Fred in game 4. That's what you do.

Walt, you're digging yourself an even deeper hole here. You made a statement that was wrong. Your statement suggested it was a fact. When I pointed out that it was wrong, YOU moved the goalposts (not me) and brought up irrelevant points such as "Anyone with eyes could see the long lineup was a huge factor in winning the game" or "Anyone who's honest could see Fred could not guard Maxey in the first three games." This has nothing to do with the statement you made. The statement you made was referring to game 4. Maxey was 0-3 when Fred was in the game. Then you backtracked and stated that you were just making assumptions based on Fred's play in games 1 and 2. You made this statement because you wanted to pile on Fred.

And no, there is no strawman or false narrative being created here. I've quoted you directly numerous times and I will quote you again. This is what you said:
"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

It literally could not be any more clear as to what you were implying with this statement. This statement was wrong and I proved it.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

You think this back and forth is some incredible gotcha.. but as an outsider looking in, it looks like Walt watched the games and came away with the right conclusions while you’re grasping at straws to defend the position that maxey’s success had nothing to do with Fred.

Let it go... Fred is hurt, he has looked like ass. It doesn’t mean we hate him and want him to banish him to the underworld, he’ll be fine. Maybe/maybe not again this season, but eventually.

[Los_29]

Maxey looking extremely mortal without FVV on the court.

That certainly helps but he's missing shots that he was making in games 1 and 2. People thought he and Harris would shoot 70% from the field all series.

[Los_29]

Gee I explained it so clearly and you still misrepresent. You know the word prediction, right, what it means? Maxey was 0-3 in the short time Fred played. I don't recall if Fred guarded him, nor have you mentioned it. But obviously, clearly, I was saying that if Fred HAD played the whole game, ie not got hurt, then Maxey likely would have scored more than the 11 he got. Is that a fact? No. Is it a lie I made up? No, It's my opinion, my projection, based on the other 3 games. If you want to say no Fred's defense was just fine, then that's not fact either, it's your opinion. If you want to project that if Fred had played the whole game, Maxey would have scored the same or less, that would be your opinion.

Just to make it even clearer: No, I was saying he beat Fred a lot in the first 3 games, and if Fred had played all of the game, his normal minutes instead of 15 minutes, Maxey would have scored more. And having 5 bigs, or 4 bigs and Gary the rest of the game helped hold him down.

You created a straw man, a false narrative, in saying I said he was scoring on Fred in game 4. That's what you do.

Walt, you're digging yourself an even deeper hole here. You made a statement that was wrong. Your statement suggested it was a fact. When I pointed out that it was wrong, YOU moved the goalposts (not me) and brought up irrelevant points such as "Anyone with eyes could see the long lineup was a huge factor in winning the game" or "Anyone who's honest could see Fred could not guard Maxey in the first three games." This has nothing to do with the statement you made. The statement you made was referring to game 4. Maxey was 0-3 when Fred was in the game. Then you backtracked and stated that you were just making assumptions based on Fred's play in games 1 and 2. You made this statement because you wanted to pile on Fred.

And no, there is no strawman or false narrative being created here. I've quoted you directly numerous times and I will quote you again. This is what you said:
"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

It literally could not be any more clear as to what you were implying with this statement. This statement was wrong and I proved it.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

You think this back and forth is some incredible gotcha.. but as an outsider looking in, it looks like Walt watched the games and came away with the right conclusions while you’re grasping at straws to defend the position that maxey’s success had nothing to do with Fred.

Let it go... Fred is hurt, he has looked like ass. It doesn’t mean we hate him and want him to banish him to the underworld, he’ll be fine. Maybe/maybe not again this season, but eventually.

You need to read the posts again. Walt made a statement that wasn't true. This is not up for debate.

[WaltFrazier]

Gee I explained it so clearly and you still misrepresent. You know the word prediction, right, what it means? Maxey was 0-3 in the short time Fred played. I don't recall if Fred guarded him, nor have you mentioned it. But obviously, clearly, I was saying that if Fred HAD played the whole game, ie not got hurt, then Maxey likely would have scored more than the 11 he got. Is that a fact? No. Is it a lie I made up? No, It's my opinion, my projection, based on the other 3 games. If you want to say no Fred's defense was just fine, then that's not fact either, it's your opinion. If you want to project that if Fred had played the whole game, Maxey would have scored the same or less, that would be your opinion.

Just to make it even clearer: No, I was saying he beat Fred a lot in the first 3 games, and if Fred had played all of the game, his normal minutes instead of 15 minutes, Maxey would have scored more. And having 5 bigs, or 4 bigs and Gary the rest of the game helped hold him down.

You created a straw man, a false narrative, in saying I said he was scoring on Fred in game 4. That's what you do.

Walt, you're digging yourself an even deeper hole here. You made a statement that was wrong. Your statement suggested it was a fact. When I pointed out that it was wrong, YOU moved the goalposts (not me) and brought up irrelevant points such as "Anyone with eyes could see the long lineup was a huge factor in winning the game" or "Anyone who's honest could see Fred could not guard Maxey in the first three games." This has nothing to do with the statement you made. The statement you made was referring to game 4. Maxey was 0-3 when Fred was in the game. Then you backtracked and stated that you were just making assumptions based on Fred's play in games 1 and 2. You made this statement because you wanted to pile on Fred.

And no, there is no strawman or false narrative being created here. I've quoted you directly numerous times and I will quote you again. This is what you said:
"Tonight he didn't have Fred to blow by, and the Sixers fell apart, no surprise he got 11."

It literally could not be any more clear as to what you were implying with this statement. This statement was wrong and I proved it.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

You think this back and forth is some incredible gotcha.. but as an outsider looking in, it looks like Walt watched the games and came away with the right conclusions while you’re grasping at straws to defend the position that maxey’s success had nothing to do with Fred.

Let it go... Fred is hurt, he has looked like ass. It doesn’t mean we hate him and want him to banish him to the underworld, he’ll be fine. Maybe/maybe not again this season, but eventually.

Thanks for the logical take on something quite obvious. . I drew a conclusion, that's all. His obsession with calling my conclusion a lie is laughable

[Los_29]

I actually don't think Maxey is a bad player. I think he's a good player and will have a good career in this league and he may very well have a better career than Precious. But this debate has always been about which player has the higher ceiling. And frankly, I don't even think it's really much of a debate. That's not to say that Precious is guaranteed to hit his ceiling but he has without question, the higher one.

If Maxey isn't hitting shots, what impact is he making out there? Precious can do nothing offensively and still make a positive contribution to the game.

I can see why Masai was interested in both players. I'm just glad Morey said no because I think ultimately Precious is the better fit long-term.