Has it not become overwhelmingly clear (even to management) it's time to blow this up?

[TorontoBarneys]

It’s really not worth it Johnny. Somehow the entire league improved so much it’s accounted for us losing 11 more games (if we continue this pace). We’re the only team who didn’t improve.

Also lol at saying half a season isn’t a small sample. We’ve seen teams (like us) go 27-14 in a half season sample (literally last year) but I don’t see anyone claiming we were a 54 win team.

We certainly not a 55 win team, but we’re also not a 35 win team. I don’t know what to say to anyone If they truly think we’re as bad as our record shows

Lol you still think this core is good? No Gobert No KAT on a back to back and can't even win. Terrible. And I'm the delusional one?

Terrible losses against the bucks and hawks just to go with this one tonight.

At this point some of these posters are genuinely trending into blatant delusion territory. It's sad to watch.
"We're not as bad as our record shows" is the most empty statement I've seen in a long time, and I've sadly seen it repeated here. It's pure cope and nothing else.

[YogurtProducer]

It’s really not worth it Johnny. Somehow the entire league improved so much it’s accounted for us losing 11 more games (if we continue this pace). We’re the only team who didn’t improve.

Also lol at saying half a season isn’t a small sample. We’ve seen teams (like us) go 27-14 in a half season sample (literally last year) but I don’t see anyone claiming we were a 54 win team.

We certainly not a 55 win team, but we’re also not a 35 win team. I don’t know what to say to anyone If they truly think we’re as bad as our record shows

Lol you still think this core is good? No Gobert No KAT on a back to back and can't even win. Terrible. And I'm the delusional one?

Terrible losses against the bucks and hawks just to go with this one tonight.

At this point some of these posters are genuinely trending into blatant delusion territory. It's sad to watch.
"We're not as bad as our record shows" is the most empty statement I've seen in a long time, and I've sadly seen it repeated here. It's pure cope and nothing else.

It really is not empty. You can look at how historically net rating, SRS, etc. is a better indicator of a teams actual production than just record. The fact is we have lost a loooot of close games this year (2-8 in 1 possession games, 4-12 in 2 possession games) which are more luck based than most people would like to admit.

http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/W - expected win % of .502 (no-mans-land territory, but still better than our record)
basketball ref has our SRS at 0.31 (16th in NBA)

Now obviously part of that is late game execution, poor offense, etc., except that last year this same core was 7-6 in 1 possession games, and 18-16 in 2 possession games. Now obviously that would be only 4-5 more wins this year, but a 24-22 record looks a hell of a lot better than 20-26.

Now, I do not think or know if a 23-23 or 24-22 record even puts us in a better spot than being 20-26, because at least being 11th in a conference takes us out of the no-mans-land territory and firmly into a rebuild situation. But there are stats and evidence that if you replay these first 46 games again there's a very good chance 20-26 is about our floor and not what you would expect.

[Dirk]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

[sca]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

[Dirk]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

[will]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

Pascal is good. Very very good. Simply not good enough to be considered elite and move the needle to make the Raptors a contender.

Great wingman to ride shotgun.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

It's a horrific trade regardless of us being bad. Rudy Gobert nets an amazing package and Siakam will net this? I don't think so.. you guys don't have the assets

[Dirk]

Pascal is good. Very very good. Simply not good enough to be considered elite and move the needle to make the Raptors a contender.

Great wingman to ride shotgun.

It's strange. The Raptors generally "overachieved" the last few years. This season feels the opposite. In theory the roster is much better than the record.

Some of these results where they blow leads or even some plays like in the Knicks game, almost feel like intentionally tanking.

Anyway, the two Siakam threads are interesting:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2258194

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2257915

And helped me get a better feel for my cheap question from before.

[Dirk]

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

It's a horrific trade regardless of us being bad. Rudy Gobert nets an amazing package and Siakam will net this? I don't think so.. you guys don't have the assets

You may have a point to feel that the trade is bad. However, I don't think it makes much sense to bring up an objectively horrible trade and say that's the Siakam price because one team was dumb enough to pay that much for Gobert.

Doesn't feel like the Raptors will blow the team up and are desperate to trade him., so you're probably right in the sense that if Siakam is traded, it will end up feeling more like "an overpay" from the other team than an underpay.

[will]

Pascal is good. Very very good. Simply not good enough to be considered elite and move the needle to make the Raptors a contender.

Great wingman to ride shotgun.

It's strange. The Raptors generally "overachieved" the last few years. This season feels the opposite. In theory the roster is much better than the record.

Some of these results where they blow leads or even some plays like in the Knicks game, almost feel like intentionally tanking.

Anyway, the two Siakam threads are interesting:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2258194

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2257915

And helped me get a better feel for my cheap question from before.

Love the cheap questions.

[Kreamy]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

You're not getting a top 15 player for that. The picks will be crap. Wood and Green do nothing for us. Not even sure I'd move OG for that.

[Kreamy]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

Pascal is not the reason we're this bad but you can have VanVleet for that offer

[TorontoBarneys]

Mavs are a terrible trade partner. You're not getting Siakam for your late 1sts, my dude. You wouldn't get him if you tacked on 5 of those.

Maybe you can have Cuban suit up. I heard he hired a personal trainer to work on his jump shot.

[rocky_da_best]

Lol you still think this core is good? No Gobert No KAT on a back to back and can't even win. Terrible. And I'm the delusional one?

Terrible losses against the bucks and hawks just to go with this one tonight.

At this point some of these posters are genuinely trending into blatant delusion territory. It's sad to watch.
"We're not as bad as our record shows" is the most empty statement I've seen in a long time, and I've sadly seen it repeated here. It's pure cope and nothing else.

It really is not empty. You can look at how historically net rating, SRS, etc. is a better indicator of a teams actual production than just record. The fact is we have lost a loooot of close games this year (2-8 in 1 possession games, 4-12 in 2 possession games) which are more luck based than most people would like to admit.

http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/W - expected win % of .502 (no-mans-land territory, but still better than our record)
basketball ref has our SRS at 0.31 (16th in NBA)

Now obviously part of that is late game execution, poor offense, etc., except that last year this same core was 7-6 in 1 possession games, and 18-16 in 2 possession games. Now obviously that would be only 4-5 more wins this year, but a 24-22 record looks a hell of a lot better than 20-26.

Now, I do not think or know if a 23-23 or 24-22 record even puts us in a better spot than being 20-26, because at least being 11th in a conference takes us out of the no-mans-land territory and firmly into a rebuild situation. But there are stats and evidence that if you replay these first 46 games again there's a very good chance 20-26 is about our floor and not what you would expect.

Very insightful, thank you!

[Son Goku 25]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

Bench, injuries, hall of fame morale wins as a result.

[ruckus]

Considering how bad this team is playing as a whole, does it even need to be blown up? This team as is will take us to the lottery.

Just deal with the expirings and if there are signs of a turnaround, shut down Pascal with an "injury". That'll put us within striking distance of Victor and Scoot.

[YogurtProducer]

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

It's a horrific trade regardless of us being bad. Rudy Gobert nets an amazing package and Siakam will net this? I don't think so.. you guys don't have the assets

You may have a point to feel that the trade is bad. However, I don't think it makes much sense to bring up an objectively horrible trade and say that's the Siakam price because one team was dumb enough to pay that much for Gobert.

Doesn't feel like the Raptors will blow the team up and are desperate to trade him., so you're probably right in the sense that if Siakam is traded, it will end up feeling more like "an overpay" from the other team than an underpay.

Look at what Donovan Mitchell got. Anthony Davis. Rudy Gobert. etc. Siakam is closer to that tier of trade than whatever it is you posted from that tweet.28 years old, putting up 25/8/6 on 57.2TS% and is a damn good defender (even though this year it has fallen off effort wise, which probably is not an issue if he does not play 37mpg and is the entire offence most nights like it wouldnt be in Dallas).

Siakam is not getting traded for a package headlined by Green or Wood.

[anotherhomer]

Pascal is good. Very very good. Simply not good enough to be considered elite and move the needle to make the Raptors a contender.

Great wingman to ride shotgun.

It's strange. The Raptors generally "overachieved" the last few years. This season feels the opposite. In theory the roster is much better than the record.

Some of these results where they blow leads or even some plays like in the Knicks game, almost feel like intentionally tanking.

Anyway, the two Siakam threads are interesting:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2258194

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2257915

And helped me get a better feel for my cheap question from before.

As will who's knowledgeable said, he's a really good player and wing player, the 1b beside 1a luka

The trade proposal to top out all your picks for him is worth it

[YogurtProducer]

Considering how bad this team is playing as a whole, does it even need to be blown up? This team as is will take us to the lottery.

Just deal with the expirings and if there are signs of a turnaround, shut down Pascal with an "injury". That'll put us within striking distance of Victor and Scoot.

This is definitely the play. I would go as far as make sure when you trade the expirings make sure you dont get back any pieces that fit with our team whatsoever. Consolidate those in the off-season. But if you trade FVV and GTJ for 2 (or more) guys that do not have guard skills we would be forced to play entire games giving guard minutes to Flynn, Banton, Dowtin, etc. and probably just go full ouit with the Siakam/Barnes PG experiment which would definitely be a masive team philosophy overhaul and probably ensure some losses.

[sca]

Would you do this?

Green has looked good this season before going down with an injury.

Read on Twitter

Sorry, we might be desperate, but not that desperate.

Why is Pascal so good and the Raptors record this bad?

Because our experiment sucks? IDK what to tell you that you might not know, we have two guards and one center (who’s as raw as a steak) in our rotation, the rest are all forwards. We don’t have enough outside shooting, and the little shooting we had has somehow gone away. It’s become apparent that Siakam and Barnes are a bad fit together (both are inside-oriented point forwards who need the ball in their hands), and then there’s FVV who’s already started throwing fits because he doesn’t get the ball enough.