Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[Johnny Bball]

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

Hot off the press from Johnny Quality: Barnes is a star player and is being treated like one.

But he's not a star player. Only you would think there is nothing inbetwen star player and role player just to argue. OLnly you would completely miss and try to change the meaning of my post. Pagthetic. Just Pathetic.

Wonder what it's like to see only black and white and never truly understand the world around you.

[TorontoBarneys]

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

Hot off the press from Johnny Quality: Barnes is a star player and is being treated like one.

But he's not a star player. Only you would think there is nothing inbetwen star player and role player just to argue. OLnly you would completely miss and try to change the meaning of my post. Pagthetic. Just Pathetic.

Ah yes I must have missed the ocean of nuance succinctly hidden in your baitposts.

[Johnny Bball]

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

I just personally don’t think Nurse sets his players up in the most advantageous spots in accordance to their strength.

Not often. But they've spot this on Barnes to be more agressive and find his spot. He has the freedom.

[Johnny Bball]

Hot off the press from Johnny Quality: Barnes is a star player and is being treated like one.

But he's not a star player. Only you would think there is nothing inbetwen star player and role player just to argue. OLnly you would completely miss and try to change the meaning of my post. Pagthetic. Just Pathetic.

Ah yes I must have missed the ocean of nuance succinctly hidden in your baitposts.

You didn't understand my post and tried to change the meaning of it, like you miss the meaning in most posts or just try change what the discussion. My post wasn't at you, you just jumped in. Yet I'm the one in this thread baiting you am I?

This really has gotten quite pathetic.

[hyper316]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

[TorontoBarneys]

My post wasn't at you, you just jumped in.

You literally did this in the trade FVV thread. Who are you even kidding at this point?

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

Scottie knows he has great value beyond just the mainline offensive stuff like scoring. Even without any 3pt shot or any mid-range game he still has significant value on the court, so he can take his time developing and doesn't need to rush.

[Los_29]

Does anyone think Houston giving Jalen Green the green light on offense benefitted him and the team in anyway? The consensus is it hasn't and has only been detrimental to his development. On the flipside, you have Evan Mobley who has basically been turned into a role-player where the majority of his points are assisted. Scottie is right in the middle of these two and it's where he should be.

[StopitLeo]

Barnes has the ball in his hands more than any sophomore except Cade, Giddey and Jalen Green. Cade is way ahead of the pack but Scottie is right behind Giddey and Green, and that difference is largely just bringing the ball up. He has the ball as much as Banchero. He gets more front court touches and has the ball in his hands twice as much Mobley.

I get we can use Barnes more effectively, but this idea that we are doing Barnes a massive disservice by not giving him the ball enough is ridiculous. There are many ways to effectively develop a player

There are certainly many ways to develop a player. However, one of Scottie's unique strengths at his size is his playmaking and I would argue that he doesn't have the ball in ways that give him the opportunity to develop that skill during a game.

Looking at Pick & Roll Ball-Handler possessions per game amongst those players you mentioned, Cade leads the way with 11.3, Green 9.7, and Giddy 5.0. Scottie gets a paltry 1.5 possessions in that role (FVV leads the team with 7.8, Siakam 4.8, and even OG is higher at 1.8).

Going back to Scottie's play this year—I think he started the season rough because he fell into a common trap that happens with players learning to shoot 3s. They get excited to show off their improvement from offseason work but they haven't improved as much as they think. I'm sure Scottie worked a lot on his 3 point shot, which led to 3PA representing 30% of his shot attempts in October and November. He dialed that back to 19% in December, which coincides with when he started turning things around. That number continued to drop to 16% in January and that was his best month this season.

[James_Raptors]

Hot off the press from Johnny Quality: Barnes is a star player and is being treated like one.

But he's not a star player. Only you would think there is nothing inbetwen star player and role player just to argue. OLnly you would completely miss and try to change the meaning of my post. Pagthetic. Just Pathetic.

Ah yes I must have missed the ocean of nuance succinctly hidden in your baitposts.

You're the one baiting.
Quit it.

[James_Raptors]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

or it fits your narrative and you're projecting.

[God Squad]

Does anyone think Houston giving Jalen Green the green light on offense benefitted him and the team in anyway? The consensus is it hasn't and has only been detrimental to his development. On the flipside, you have Evan Mobley who has basically been turned into a role-player where the majority of his points are assisted. Scottie is right in the middle of these two and it's where he should be.

While I agree Houston's approach is detrimental, I think they're missing a key ingredient in their tank. They need a point guard in the worst way, Houston's playing some disorganized basketball. Green suffering and worse is Jabari needs a guard to find him shots.

I like OKC rebuild the best so far out of the tanking teams.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'd rather see him playing to his strengths than playing to his weaknesses

Set your players up to be successful

That's just me though

To build him up individually into a more dynamic player I think expanding his mid range is a better play here. But, the Raptors are developing him the same way they developed their role players (starting with the 3). It makes me wonder what that does to a player's style of play on offense like OG for example who's very mechanical. I'm hoping this doesn't put him into a box. I'm not the expert here, but I don't think developing the same way you developed your 3 and D guy is the right way.

Let's hope he kind of takes it upon himself like Siakam did and work more on his midrange game which becomes very important in the playoffs.

Agreed, I think developing his mid range is much more important than the corner three

The mid range will open up everything else for him

He's taken 87 midrange jumpers and he's shooting 28.7%.

His jumper is definitely a work in progress, but midrange isn't maximizing his strengths. There's not too many people that have had that kind of volume on that shot sub 30% in the last few years. I think Aaron Gordon, Bam, Ben Simmons and Kevin Knox. He gets his touches. He sometimes has to play off the ball because he's not good enough, and hitting corner 3s helps the team and gets him easy looks. 60 corner 3s isn't exactly him standing there all night.

[nikster]

Barnes has the ball in his hands more than any sophomore except Cade, Giddey and Jalen Green. Cade is way ahead of the pack but Scottie is right behind Giddey and Green, and that difference is largely just bringing the ball up. He has the ball as much as Banchero. He gets more front court touches and has the ball in his hands twice as much Mobley.

I get we can use Barnes more effectively, but this idea that we are doing Barnes a massive disservice by not giving him the ball enough is ridiculous. There are many ways to effectively develop a player

There are certainly many ways to develop a player. However, one of Scottie's unique strengths at his size is his playmaking and I would argue that he doesn't have the ball in ways that give him the opportunity to develop that skill during a game.

Looking at Pick & Roll Ball-Handler possessions per game amongst those players you mentioned, Cade leads the way with 11.3, Green 9.7, and Giddy 5.0. Scottie gets a paltry 1.5 possessions in that role (FVV leads the team with 7.8, Siakam 4.8, and even OG is higher at 1.8).

Going back to Scottie's play this year—I think he started the season rough because he fell into a common trap that happens with players learning to shoot 3s. They get excited to show off their improvement from offseason work but they haven't improved as much as they think. I'm sure Scottie worked a lot on his 3 point shot, which led to 3PA representing 30% of his shot attempts in October and November. He dialed that back to 19% in December, which coincides with when he started turning things around. That number continued to drop to 16% in January and that was his best month this season.

I dont think he really has the skills to be a pick and roll ball handler much yet. But again there are other way to thrive as a passer. Barnes is just behind Giddey in leading sophomores in passes per game. He's 3rd in potential and actual assists just behind Giddey and Cade.

[ItsDanger]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

or it fits your narrative and you're projecting.

Masai called the team selfish in his deadline conference. This provides legitimacy to the comment.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

Scottie is just being himself whereas FVV is literally fighting himself and trying to overcome his own inner tendencies just to be a slightly better teammate.

Playing winning (team) ball comes naturally to Scottie because that's how he's wired. Fred has less than half a season to rewire his brain and show us something.

[StopitLeo]

I dont think he really has the skills to be a pick and roll ball handler much yet. But again there are other way to thrive as a passer. Barnes is just behind Giddey in leading sophomores in passes per game. He's 3rd in potential and actual assists just behind Giddey and Cade.

Not having the skills yet is exactly why in game reps running P&R would be beneficial to his development. I think that was actually the plan with FVV playing off-the-ball.

Fred never seemed to embrace that role and I'm sure how much the team had been underperforming was part of going back him being a primary ball-handler.

Anyway, I agree with you that Scottie is being able to use a lot of his skills in his current role and he can certainly develop in other areas the way he is being used.

[James_Raptors]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

or it fits your narrative and you're projecting.

Masai called the team selfish in his deadline conference. This provides legitimacy to the comment.

Most of us watched it live.

Please provide the clip showing Masai specifying which person(s) he was referring to with his "selfish" comment, and an additional clip where Masai assures us he was not directing that comment towards Scottie Barnes. You can't, obviously. None of us can. So until we have concrete answers with a whole lot of specificity, then we're left to guess, like yourself. So let's just stick with what we know, rather than "what we hope it means". Or at the very least, allow for the distinction between fact and fiction. Speculation and innuendo have no basis in the reality we currently know. Sharing opinions? Nifty, we all do that. Welcome aboard.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Just watching Scotties yahoo sports interview asked how to avoid the sophomore slump, responded being me, being unselfish - shots fired

Watch on YouTube

or it fits your narrative and you're projecting.

Masai called the team selfish in his deadline conference. This provides legitimacy to the comment.

You can tell how Scottie is just casually slinging the ball around not caring to jack up ISO 3's or deep midrange shots like earlier in the year just to practice his shot in-game or because the staff was telling him to be more aggressive and take command. I love it. He dropped 9 dimes to welcome Jak to the team and clearly has taken Masai's message very seriously. If Scottie adds a 3 point shot to his arsenal then great, but we need to let Scottie be Scottie and allow him to use his strengths on the court. He will only elevate this team and future versions of it with his passing. He should never stray from that, it's unfair to expect him to fill Kawhi's shoes and become a similar player. Scottie is Scottie, let him leave his own imprint on the game. If he becomes a triple double threat who is only dropping 18 a night and never learns to shoot the 3 ball well, that's ok too.

[ItsDanger]

or it fits your narrative and you're projecting.

Masai called the team selfish in his deadline conference. This provides legitimacy to the comment.

Most of us watched it live.

Please provide the clip showing Masai specifying which person(s) he was referring to with his "selfish" comment, and an additional clip where Masai assures us he was not directing that comment towards Scottie Barnes. You can't, obviously. None of us can. So until we have concrete answers with a whole lot of specificity, then we're left to guess, like yourself. So let's just stick with what we know, rather than "what we hope it means". Or at the very least, allow for the distinction between fact and fiction. Speculation and innuendo have no basis in the reality we currently know. Sharing opinions? Nifty, we all do that. Welcome aboard.

Masai is calling out the leadership of the team, and that includes Fred. Did he mean just one player? Doubtful.

[Thaddy]

At the 1:34 mark you can see something on Scottie's neck. He's definitely enjoying this break.