Remind me why the Raptors traded Norman Powell

[OakleyDokely]

Cap space isn't just about signing free agents, it can be used in trades to take on salary, and we have made a ton of deals to avoid the luxury tax.

This was just a bad move for so many reasons. We got a one dimensional player who was about to get paid who never showed he could grow, and if he did do well, was looking for a huge payday, and if he failed, you missed.

Given trades that have happened a late first and second could have been had for Norm, but we chose poorly.

your problem is that you're expectations for what a free agent role player brings back in a trade is completely unrealistic.

We have no idea if a 1st was ever offered for Norm by the way, but I know what won't stop you from pretending it was.

Name the rentals who were traded for a 1st at this deadline.

Jakob Poetl, Josh Hart (PO who will opt out),

Who we now have to sign so it's not a rental similar to what Portland did.

Saddiq Bey got 5 seconds. Give me that over Trent. There was no benefit of Trent, and now he leaves for nothing.

The Raps got 2.5 years of solid rotation / starter play from him and we have no idea if he's leaving for nothing. That's just your speculation.

That 1st rounder you wanted instead would be soon up for an extension by the way, if he actually worked out. A 2nd rounder on a typically shorter deal would need to paid very soon.

[ItsDanger]

If Saddiq Bey got 5 2nds, then if you can't get anything for Norm at the time, maybe the GM is the problem. You're only as good as your network and from the outside, it looks like Raps front office have run out of juice.

[OakleyDokely]

5 2nds made up of mostly of mid to late 2nds is almost a completely worthless package.

all you need to do is go back and look at previous drafts and count how few legit NBA players have been drafted out of the hundreds in the 45-60 range to see how worthless they are.

One of the rare guys that actually HIT in that range (GTJ) is worthless though and not a worthy return. The mystery box is so much more valuable.

[ItsDanger]

2nd rnd picks are currency and can be used in other transactions. I've used the term binary here before, but this is a classic example.

[Fairview4Life]

Lot of classic examples of classic stuff going on.

[OakleyDokely]

2nd rnd picks are currency and can be used in other transactions. I've used the term binary here before, but this is a classic example.

Nickels are currency, doesn't make them valuable though.

[ItsDanger]

What's the value of Trent leaving in UFA?

Answer: Nothing.

[OakleyDokely]

What's the value of having Trent for 2.5 years over potentially losing Powell for nothing?

Answer: not nothing

[YogurtProducer]

And what about the rookie scale contract versus the guy looking to get paid? There are so many levels as to why that trade was bad.

He is about to walk for nothing.

For a team that isn't a cap space team nor attracts free agents and only uses its exceptions, that cap difference meant very little to them.

The Raps had him for 2.5 years and they hold his bird rights. That's not nothing.

Cap space isn't just about signing free agents, it can be used in trades to take on salary, and we have made a ton of deals to avoid the luxury tax.

This was just a bad move for so many reasons. We got a one dimensional player who was about to get paid who never showed he could grow, and if he did do well, was looking for a huge payday, and if he failed, you missed.

Given trades that have happened a late first and second could have been had for Norm, but we chose poorly.

How many teams ever have cap space? Outside like 2 teams who are tanking no one ever has cap space.

[YogurtProducer]

What's the value of having Trent for 2.5 years over potentially losing Powell for nothing?

Answer: not nothing

Preferring a late 1st over a productive GTJ is an all-time bad take.

And the funny thing is, you just know Masai would be roasted if he were to trade GTJ tomorrow for the 28th pick.

[OakleyDokely]

What's the value of having Trent for 2.5 years over potentially losing Powell for nothing?

Answer: not nothing

Preferring a late 1st over a productive GTJ is an all-time bad take.

And the funny thing is, you just know Masai would be roasted if he were to trade GTJ tomorrow for the 28th pick.

and when that 28th pick turns into someone not as good as Powell or GTJ, Masai can't draft either.

There are moves Masai can be seriously questioned on, but trading a FA role player for a younger role player is really low on that list.

[ConSarnit]

What's the value of having Trent for 2.5 years over potentially losing Powell for nothing?

Answer: not nothing

Preferring a late 1st over a productive GTJ is an all-time bad take.

And the funny thing is, you just know Masai would be roasted if he were to trade GTJ tomorrow for the 28th pick.

and when that 28th pick turns into someone not as good as Powell or GTJ, Masai can't draft either.

There are moves Masai can be seriously questioned on, but trading a FA role player for a younger role player is really low on that list.

The "late 1st" crowd doesn't understand expected value.

"We could have had a cost controlled player." That's great in theory except for one small issue: the normal outcome for a late 1st is right around Malachi Flynn. The expected value of a late 1st is a deep bench player or a bust. How is that any more valuable than 2.5 years of what GTJ provided? That doesn't even account for the fact that GTJ was 22 when we acquired him, was a proven shooter with flashes of upside in other areas. Trent didn't get there but a 22 year old proven NBA player who still has upside is worth far more @ $18m/year than the 27th pick making $1.5m when you consider the normal outcome.

2.5 years of GTJ > average outcome of a late 1st

The mystery box posters always treat the box as best possible outcome. They did it with Koloko too. "We would have drafted Kessler" while ignoring that 11 other players were drafted in that range as well, many of whom will bust.

[ItsDanger]

The value of cap space eludes far too many on this board.

[ontnut]

At the time, both players were looking pretty similar on paper, but GTJ was younger, and on a contract. The swap made sense for the Raptors.

[OakleyDokely]

Preferring a late 1st over a productive GTJ is an all-time bad take.

And the funny thing is, you just know Masai would be roasted if he were to trade GTJ tomorrow for the 28th pick.

and when that 28th pick turns into someone not as good as Powell or GTJ, Masai can't draft either.

There are moves Masai can be seriously questioned on, but trading a FA role player for a younger role player is really low on that list.

The "late 1st" crowd doesn't understand expected value.

"We could have had a cost controlled player." That's great in theory except for one small issue: the normal outcome for a late 1st is right around Malachi Flynn. The expected value of a late 1st is a deep bench player or a bust. How is that any more valuable than 2.5 years of what GTJ provided? That doesn't even account for the fact that GTJ was 22 when we acquired him, was a proven shooter with flashes of upside in other areas. Trent didn't get there but a 22 year old proven NBA player who still has upside is worth far more @ $18m/year than the 27th pick making $1.5m when you consider the normal outcome.

2.5 years of GTJ > average outcome of a late 1st

The mystery box posters always treat the box as best possible outcome. They did it with Koloko too. "We would have drafted Kessler" while ignoring that 11 other players were drafted in that range as well, many of whom will bust.

GTJ is also conveniently being underrated by a lot of people as well. He'd be a key rotation player on every team in the league and he'd start on some teams. Maybe he's plateaued as a player, that remains to be seen, but he still averaged 17PPG this year on solid shooting splits of 43/37/84 and he still does more defensively than Powell ever did.

[YogurtProducer]

The value of cap space eludes far too many on this board.

The value of cost controlled positive assets eludes you as well.

[YogurtProducer]

Preferring a late 1st over a productive GTJ is an all-time bad take.

And the funny thing is, you just know Masai would be roasted if he were to trade GTJ tomorrow for the 28th pick.

and when that 28th pick turns into someone not as good as Powell or GTJ, Masai can't draft either.

There are moves Masai can be seriously questioned on, but trading a FA role player for a younger role player is really low on that list.

The "late 1st" crowd doesn't understand expected value.

"We could have had a cost controlled player." That's great in theory except for one small issue: the normal outcome for a late 1st is right around Malachi Flynn. The expected value of a late 1st is a deep bench player or a bust. How is that any more valuable than 2.5 years of what GTJ provided? That doesn't even account for the fact that GTJ was 22 when we acquired him, was a proven shooter with flashes of upside in other areas. Trent didn't get there but a 22 year old proven NBA player who still has upside is worth far more @ $18m/year than the 27th pick making $1.5m when you consider the normal outcome.

2.5 years of GTJ > average outcome of a late 1st

The mystery box posters always treat the box as best possible outcome. They did it with Koloko too. "We would have drafted Kessler" while ignoring that 11 other players were drafted in that range as well, many of whom will bust.

It just kills me to see the same crowd yelling for a rebuild and what not are now saying we made a mistake trading 29 year old Norman for a very similar 22 year old, who had (and still has) the potential to improve way beyond what Norm ended up as.

[ItsDanger]

The value of cap space eludes far too many on this board.

The value of cost controlled positive assets eludes you as well.

Oh really? When was Fred's & Pascal's trade value higher? 2 years ago? Or now?

What a farce.

[YogurtProducer]

The value of cap space eludes far too many on this board.

The value of cost controlled positive assets eludes you as well.

Oh really? When was Fred's & Pascal's trade value higher? 2 years ago? Or now?

What a farce.

Pascal was rumored to be moved for poo-poo platters 2 years ago after the Tampa season. Following it up with an all-nba year and a 24/8/6 season has definitely improved his trade value (especially if we lock him up for another deal).

Two years ago FVV put up 20/4/6 on 53TS%. This year he put up 20/4/7 on 54TS%. If he gets another market value deal like he did last time his trade value really has not changed.

IDK what the point of your post is. It is not the gotcha you think it is.

Either way, what were we going to use cap space for that was better than FVV and Pascal?

[Los_29]

Is Norm still playing? I thought his team was eliminated in 5 games.