Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[TGM]

It’s funny how people want to tank and spends years in the dumps. When the chances of getting a MVP talent is probably harder than getting 3 first overall-all picks.

Even if we got Cooper Flagg I don’t think he becomes a MVP like Giannis type of player.

When you get a chance to acquire a perennial MVP calibre player you always go for it. The Bucks even turned down the Mavs for Luka.

Giving up Barnes is a small price to pay to get Giannis.

I think the Raps are well positioned. It I’m the Bucks picks is one thing, but to secure a 23 year old allstar is the surest thing for your team.

People keep saying that Houston, Spurs and OKC can outbid.

Houston I see as the only threat.

I’m not convinced Spurs move Castle and I wouldn’t say he is near the value of Barnes.

If I’m OKc no reason to break the chemistry and 3 headed monster of Chet, SGA and Jalen. Especially if they win it. They rather keep the salary flexibility being a small market team.

I think it comes down to Sengun versus Barnes. Green and other guys plus picks I don’t think is a more attractive package.

Cleveland probably tries a Garland and Allen for Giannis and Brook type of deal. But if I’m the bucks. I’m not sure I prefer that over like a Barnes and RJ or Barnes and IQ deal.

So Raps will be well positioned.

[Tripod]

I’m not going to lie, I appreciate Scottie in the same way I appreciated DeRozan, but this lineup gives me 2019 Raptors vibes in terms of “I think this can win a championship”:
IQ / Shead
RJ / Battle
Ingram / Agbaji
Giannis / Boucher
Poeltl / Maluach

Yeah, that’s pretty good.

Another insane statement to make that is a pure function of the scotty cult.

Demar gave his heart and soul to this franchise. He started out an awkward teenager and matured into a respectable man that worked his ass off for the raptor franchise. Through his hard work we were a perennial 3 to 6 seed for multiple seasons. We traded him for an injured star player that won us a championship.

Scotty has literally done NOTHING for our franchise. I repeat: NOTHING.

The craziest thing about the scotty cult is that he could have another ho-hum season and they will emphasize his intangibles. But if he actually breaks through and has an allstar season we will never hear the end of it.

He can't lose with his cult. If he plays in such a way to maximize his efficiency stats than we are in for a whole lot of casual basketball fans gloating like morons.

I get what you're saying but you gotta stop hating the man so much, almost sounds like he did something personal to you. At the end of the day, we are Raptors fans and I'd rather want our franchise cornerstone to be great cuz it'll help us win. If that means we find other players that's fine but for now it's Scottie and I'm gonna ride with him.

Yeah every time McDenny goes on about "Barnes cult" it comes across as personal and reminder of how he himself does the same worshiping of FVV.

Find some middle ground to have a reasonable conversation, because that's in you Mc.

Let's keep this thread on track and keep discussing "what if's"...no need for tirades about someone you don't like.

Gotta wonder....if Masai could get a deal done for Giannis you have to think it's on the condition Masai is going to be around longer than 1 year. Giannis "team" would likely say if we are committing to the Raps on an extension, we want Masai here too. He won't "choose" the Raps if Masai is only here 1 year.

But if Rogers is smart, they do that all day because ticket prices, demand all jump as will the amount of jerseys and merchandise the team would sell. As would Raps "value" and that might matter the most to them.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This rumour has "sign Landry Fields to block the Knicks from signing Steve Nash" all over it. Masai is weak af right now, going around the league telling everyone who will listen they'll pay up.

It’s a bad thing that Masai went after Kawhi, Durant and Lillard and is now in a position where he has all his picks and a deeper bench to make consolidation trades? I understand you hate him, but dude your dislike for Masai is driving you down a deep hole. What exactly is there to dislike about your team’s GM trying to find a superstar? You would rather he sit on his hands?

This is nothing new. This is just how Masai operates when he has what he feels is value throughout his roster. We were never going to do a slow, long rebuild and those historically haven’t worked for most teams.

It might sound weird, but this past draft absolutely sped things up. Our playable depth us now 11 deep and "could" be adding #9 to it. And the only "hole" is a backup C.

Logic shows we are in a position to consolidate.

Masai saw how this team played very well vs good teams despite losses and all the injuries in the 1st half. Then when we flicked the switch playing great defense, it showed what the identity of this team could be. And with Barnes being a big part of that effort on defense, he saw an undervalued BI as a way to add offense and push others down in the order.

And since then, the Bucks and Celtics were dealt injury blows so he absolutely should he trying to push the improvement even further. No need to "settle" at what he has done if a deal is out there to improve even more.

Active Masai is good Masai. Masai focusing on GoA while Bobby got more rope was bad Masai. Let's enjoy what could happen. It might be nothing, but it just might be....

I dunno, can we really call it depth if we won 30 games? I'm not dismissing potential, but it's not like we had a bunch of rookies carrying play for us. We had a bunch of rookies that could easily be 10-15 bench players on competitive teams.

Active Masai ran the Pascal trade, which cost us Nembhard because he thought he could get more later.

Personally it looks like trying to take advantage of a cap crunch, which is not bad in and of itself. But, this team is still theoretical because even Ingram hasn't played a minute for the Raptors. They haven't tried to win in two years. So I'm concerned with walking before we run, which is why I made the Steve Nash trade comp. There's really nothing wrong with Masai trying. But, even taking a step back is this not right in Ed Rogers' Blue Jays off-season formula of pretending we're legit contenders for the big names?

I don't see a pathway to get Giannis without Scottie, and I don't see Giannis wanting to play here without Scottie. So, I'm more skeptical.

[Madvillainy2004]

If Giannis wants to come here you do whatever (trade scottie) is necessary then go all in on win now players. Plus realistically Giannis and Scottie might be the worst fit I could think of lol

[ATLTimekeeper]

In terms of fit, Markkanen is a good match next to Scottie. Still kind of a big fish, but not Giannis level.

He's kinda not, because he needs a PG to get him the ball, and then we have Ingram, who is going to have to be hidden on the corner shooters.

You kind of left out the part that Markkenen is one of the best shooting forward-centers in the league. If we're gonna play Scottie, Mogbo, and Poeltl substantial minutes going forward, we need an elite shooting big.

What? Did I miss something? Who are Lauri and Ingram guarding?

[TorontoBarneys]

If Giannis wants to come here you do whatever (trade scottie) is necessary then go all in on win now players. Plus realistically Giannis and Scottie might be the worst fit I could think of lol

Something tells me Giannis is not chomping at the bit to play with an injured Ingram as his co-star when he almost certainly has better options around the league in terms of landing spots.

[MoneyBall]

He's kinda not, because he needs a PG to get him the ball, and then we have Ingram, who is going to have to be hidden on the corner shooters.

You kind of left out the part that Markkenen is one of the best shooting forward-centers in the league. If we're gonna play Scottie, Mogbo, and Poeltl substantial minutes going forward, we need an elite shooting big.

What? Did I miss something? Who are Lauri and Ingram guarding?

Both are very versatile players and play multiple positions. It would give Scottie way more space and options on offense, even if they're not always on the court at the same time.

[CPT]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

Love this deal.

Was kind of disappointed that this turned into another Giannis thread, but this is a banger. It’s so hard to place Zion’s value right now though.

I wonder if this could actually work by taking a bad contract from Milwaukee?

It reminds me of the Kawhi trade in a way where I think we were kind of fine with it just being a way to move DeRozan. Obviously it worked out better than that. It would be a similar thing with Zion. If he’s somehow good in Milwaukee they will have pulled off a bit of a heist, but they would be fine just getting their picks back and letting him walk otherwise.

[Troubadour]

I'm against trading for Giannis. This is a bad idea. I would rather target Domantas Sabonis. Giannis will be washed in 2 seasons. Joel is already cooked.

Sabonis and Scottie can run DHOs to each other until the shot clock expires

[ash_k]

I am only giving Barnes IF Giannis is involved and without giving up a tons of picks

Booker - BI - Barnes -Yak would look great a paper, but I would then prefer a "cheaper" KD-BI-Barnes-Yak for a 2-year win-now run
Giannis-BI-Yak would give us a 4-year run at the least.

However I would be just fine going with IQ|RJ|BI|Scot|Yak|Shead|Grad|Ochai|Walter|Boucher|Mobgo|9th pick and watch them all grow together

[Tripod]

It’s a bad thing that Masai went after Kawhi, Durant and Lillard and is now in a position where he has all his picks and a deeper bench to make consolidation trades? I understand you hate him, but dude your dislike for Masai is driving you down a deep hole. What exactly is there to dislike about your team’s GM trying to find a superstar? You would rather he sit on his hands?

This is nothing new. This is just how Masai operates when he has what he feels is value throughout his roster. We were never going to do a slow, long rebuild and those historically haven’t worked for most teams.

It might sound weird, but this past draft absolutely sped things up. Our playable depth us now 11 deep and "could" be adding #9 to it. And the only "hole" is a backup C.

Logic shows we are in a position to consolidate.

Masai saw how this team played very well vs good teams despite losses and all the injuries in the 1st half. Then when we flicked the switch playing great defense, it showed what the identity of this team could be. And with Barnes being a big part of that effort on defense, he saw an undervalued BI as a way to add offense and push others down in the order.

And since then, the Bucks and Celtics were dealt injury blows so he absolutely should he trying to push the improvement even further. No need to "settle" at what he has done if a deal is out there to improve even more.

Active Masai is good Masai. Masai focusing on GoA while Bobby got more rope was bad Masai. Let's enjoy what could happen. It might be nothing, but it just might be....

I dunno, can we really call it depth if we won 30 games? I'm not dismissing potential, but it's not like we had a bunch of rookies carrying play for us. We had a bunch of rookies that could easily be 10-15 bench players on competitive teams.

Active Masai ran the Pascal trade, which cost us Nembhard because he thought he could get more later.

Personally it looks like trying to take advantage of a cap crunch, which is not bad in and of itself. But, this team is still theoretical because even Ingram hasn't played a minute for the Raptors. They haven't tried to win in two years. So I'm concerned with walking before we run, which is why I made the Steve Nash trade comp. There's really nothing wrong with Masai trying. But, even taking a step back is this not right in Ed Rogers' Blue Jays off-season formula of pretending we're legit contenders for the big names?

I don't see a pathway to get Giannis without Scottie, and I don't see Giannis wanting to play here without Scottie. So, I'm more skeptical.

Let's be honest, we are not actually a 30 win team.

We were a 30 win team who had injuries to 4 rotation players starting the season, then healthy scratching guys left and right all thru the season. Christ we even played gleaguers and 10 days when we didn't need to in an attempt to lose games. We are closer to a 40 win team than a 30. And now are adding BI and possibly #9 to that.

Your Nemhard comment is pure speculation. But since you mentioned Indy, they were 7 games over. 500 when they added Siakam.

You can see that on paper us being a "real" 38 win team+BI+#9= 45-50 win team. So if you have the chance to consolidate even more fir another boost on top of that, you absolutely should be exploring that. Especially given the injuries to Dame, Tatum, and Brown mean those 2 teams who were top 6 are taking steps back. Jump up this year to take advantage.

I have said that I don't think it will be Giannis either. But I have been saying for a month or so I could see Masai pulling off a sneaky deal few see coming. Would not shock me.

[LarSiN]

If Giannis wants to come here you do whatever (trade scottie) is necessary then go all in on win now players. Plus realistically Giannis and Scottie might be the worst fit I could think of lol

Something tells me Giannis is not chomping at the bit to play with an injured Ingram as his co-star when he almost certainly has better options around the league in terms of landing spots.

He's not going to be injured in September bud

[Rodrickle]

I'm not convinced Giannis will be traded in the offseason. I think the Bucks will at least keep trying to keep him for at least the first few months of the season, then will likely trade him by the deadline when they realize they have a terrible team around him.

[Kobe Anunoby]

If Giannis wants to come here you do whatever (trade scottie) is necessary then go all in on win now players. Plus realistically Giannis and Scottie might be the worst fit I could think of lol

Something tells me Giannis is not chomping at the bit to play with an injured Ingram as his co-star when he almost certainly has better options around the league in terms of landing spots.

He's not going to be injured in September bud

Just late September

[Tripod]

Is there a deal where:

Bucks get their swap and pick back from NO in 2026 and 27 plus get Zion, and some 1st from Raps.

NOP get Barnes for those picks/swap and wipe hands of Zion.

Raps get Giannis

Bucks get to tank if they want but also get Zion as a "draw" for fans. And can choose to walk away from him anytime given how his contract is. Or maybe his value gets rebuilt and they are able to move him for more assets later.

NOP gets the guarantee of Barnes instead of a possibility of picks and essentially walk away from Zion.

Raps obviously upgrade

This would be the core of the deal and obviously there might be other additions...maybe Dick to NOP for example.

Love this deal.

Was kind of disappointed that this turned into another Giannis thread, but this is a banger. It’s so hard to place Zion’s value right now though.

I wonder if this could actually work by taking a bad contract from Milwaukee?

It reminds me of the Kawhi trade in a way where I think we were kind of fine with it just being a way to move DeRozan. Obviously it worked out better than that. It would be a similar thing with Zion. If he’s somehow good in Milwaukee they will have pulled off a bit of a heist, but they would be fine just getting their picks back and letting him walk otherwise.

Yup that's my thinking.

Bucks happy to control their draft the next 2 years and can tank but still have "a name" to draw crowds. And they have the flexibility to cut ties at anytime given his contract structure. And the upside of "what if" we can fix him.

Sort of a "sucks Giannis wants to move but he has been great to the organization. At least this deal gives us control back for awhile, we can tank next year for those 3-5 guys who are supposed to be great and also the following year. Plus we have Zion and Dame we could still move for more assets".

And NOP get the guaranteed 23 year old signed long term instead of picks around 15 if Giannis stays as a Buck....and resets their culture with the Zion distraction.

Seems like a win, win, win

[StopitLeo]

It’s funny how people want to tank and spends years in the dumps. When the chances of getting a MVP talent is probably harder than getting 3 first overall-all picks.

Even if we got Cooper Flagg I don’t think he becomes a MVP like Giannis type of player.

When you get a chance to acquire a perennial MVP calibre player you always go for it. The Bucks even turned down the Mavs for Luka.

Giving up Barnes is a small price to pay to get Giannis.

I think the Raps are well positioned. It I’m the Bucks picks is one thing, but to secure a 23 year old allstar is the surest thing for your team.

People keep saying that Houston, Spurs and OKC can outbid.

Houston I see as the only threat.

I’m not convinced Spurs move Castle and I wouldn’t say he is near the value of Barnes.

If I’m OKc no reason to break the chemistry and 3 headed monster of Chet, SGA and Jalen. Especially if they win it. They rather keep the salary flexibility being a small market team.

I think it comes down to Sengun versus Barnes. Green and other guys plus picks I don’t think is a more attractive package.

Cleveland probably tries a Garland and Allen for Giannis and Brook type of deal. But if I’m the bucks. I’m not sure I prefer that over like a Barnes and RJ or Barnes and IQ deal.

So Raps will be well positioned.

I agree. You need an MVP level player to be a contender and like you said, even with the 1st overall pick it is hardly guaranteed (more like 50:50). If there is an opportunity to acquire a proven MVP calibre player like Giannis you have to do it.

I think Barnes has one important quality over guys like Sengun and Castle—Scottie has the kind of personality that you want in a "face of the franchise" player. I think this is something the Bucks would have to take into consideration when trading the current face of their franchise.

As for fit with Ingram, Giannis still does most of his damage inside (50% of his FGA are 0-3 ft) while Ingram is a very capable scorer further away from the rim. Defensively you are going to have to add 3D guys around Ingram regardless.

[Clutch0z24]

Read on Twitter

Should we start celebrating too soon or not....The only way a deal gets done is IF Giannis chooses us i think...Theres a chance now at least.

[Nature]

The home run play has to be trading for Giannis this summer and bringing Shai home in 2027 right? The new Kobe & Shaq.

They'd make up about a third of our cap space between the two of them.

[WuTang_CMB]

I'm not convinced Giannis will be traded in the offseason. I think the Bucks will at least keep trying to keep him for at least the first few months of the season, then will likely trade him by the deadline when they realize they have a terrible team around him.

Doesn't really matter what Bucks want. If Giannis asks to be traded, they will be loyal to him and do it

[Raptorfan2012]

I'm not convinced Giannis will be traded in the offseason. I think the Bucks will at least keep trying to keep him for at least the first few months of the season, then will likely trade him by the deadline when they realize they have a terrible team around him.

Doesn't really matter what Bucks want. If Giannis asks to be traded, they will be loyal to him and do it

Maybe, but this is also the FO that flipped Khris Middleton to the bloody Wizards