[Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m

[brownbobcat]

Guarantee amounts aren't what you get paid if you play, it's what you get paid if you get waived/cut. These aren't incentives that can change a player's salary.

Jak will make 27.3M in 2029-30 if he's on the roster.

If we waive him, at least 5M will be dead salary on our cap. If he hits these goals, then somewhere between that 5M and the full amount would be dead cap if we waived him (depending on how many goals he hits).

Guarantees and incentives are two different things, though, and I'm leaning towards the former based on the wording of the variability.

For example, Zion's contract is based on guarantees due to the vesting nature, i.e. it triggers the entire year based on his weight and/or games played. What changes is not his salary amount, but whether the team gets an opt-out.

IQ has $2.5M/yr in unlikely incentives, it doesn't mean the team has to waive him to avoid paying if not achieved. i.e., there is no decision for the team to make, he either gets it or he doesn't.

If this is a cumulative incentive, it's actually really interesting.

[dhackett1565]

Guarantee amounts aren't what you get paid if you play, it's what you get paid if you get waived/cut. These aren't incentives that can change a player's salary.

Jak will make 27.3M in 2029-30 if he's on the roster.

If we waive him, at least 5M will be dead salary on our cap. If he hits these goals, then somewhere between that 5M and the full amount would be dead cap if we waived him (depending on how many goals he hits).

Guarantees and incentives are two different things, though, and I'm leaning towards the former based on the wording of the variability.

For example, Zion's contract is based on guarantees due to the vesting nature, i.e. it triggers the entire year based on his weight and/or games played. What changes is not his salary amount, but whether the team gets an opt-out.

IQ has $2.5M/yr in unlikely incentives, it doesn't mean the team has to waive him to avoid paying if not achieved. i.e., there is no decision for the team to make, he either gets it or he doesn't.

If this is a cumulative incentive, it's actually really interesting.

Yeah the Poeltl contract extension has no incentives reported (incentives are limited at 15% of the annual amount anyway). These are all guarantee conditions.

[brownbobcat]

Guarantee amounts aren't what you get paid if you play, it's what you get paid if you get waived/cut. These aren't incentives that can change a player's salary.

Jak will make 27.3M in 2029-30 if he's on the roster.

If we waive him, at least 5M will be dead salary on our cap. If he hits these goals, then somewhere between that 5M and the full amount would be dead cap if we waived him (depending on how many goals he hits).

Guarantees and incentives are two different things, though, and I'm leaning towards the former based on the wording of the variability.

For example, Zion's contract is based on guarantees due to the vesting nature, i.e. it triggers the entire year based on his weight and/or games played. What changes is not his salary amount, but whether the team gets an opt-out.

IQ has $2.5M/yr in unlikely incentives, it doesn't mean the team has to waive him to avoid paying if not achieved. i.e., there is no decision for the team to make, he either gets it or he doesn't.

If this is a cumulative incentive, it's actually really interesting.

Yeah the Poeltl contract extension has no incentives reported (incentives are limited at 15% of the annual amount anyway). These are all guarantee conditions.

Unlikely incentives are limited at 15%, I do not believe there is a limit on likely incentives as long as it fits within the cap.

Your interpretation might very well be correct, though I'm not sure why a guarantee could be cumulative but not an incentive.

[dhackett1565]

Guarantees and incentives are two different things, though, and I'm leaning towards the former based on the wording of the variability.

For example, Zion's contract is based on guarantees due to the vesting nature, i.e. it triggers the entire year based on his weight and/or games played. What changes is not his salary amount, but whether the team gets an opt-out.

IQ has $2.5M/yr in unlikely incentives, it doesn't mean the team has to waive him to avoid paying if not achieved. i.e., there is no decision for the team to make, he either gets it or he doesn't.

If this is a cumulative incentive, it's actually really interesting.

Yeah the Poeltl contract extension has no incentives reported (incentives are limited at 15% of the annual amount anyway). These are all guarantee conditions.

Unlikely incentives are limited at 15%, I do not believe there is a limit on likely incentives as long as it fits within the cap.

Your interpretation might very well be correct, though I'm not sure why a guarantee could be cumulative but not an incentive.

Incentive in any season, likely or unlikely, is capped at 20% of the salary for that season (had the number wrong, think it used to be 15%, but it's 20% now).

Signing bonuses are limited to 15% of the full contract salary. Different but similar thing, not important for cap stuff.

Guarantee conditions are pretty much uncontrolled, except each salary year cannot be guaranteed for more money (as a percentage of salary) than the previous one. The Jak guarantee itself isn't cumulative - there's just a bunch of conditions that each trigger a different increase to the amount.

[brownbobcat]

Yeah the Poeltl contract extension has no incentives reported (incentives are limited at 15% of the annual amount anyway). These are all guarantee conditions.

Unlikely incentives are limited at 15%, I do not believe there is a limit on likely incentives as long as it fits within the cap.

Your interpretation might very well be correct, though I'm not sure why a guarantee could be cumulative but not an incentive.

Incentive in any season, likely or unlikely, is capped at 20% of the salary for that season (had the number wrong, think it used to be 15%, but it's 20% now).

Signing bonuses are limited to 15% of the full contract salary. Different but similar thing, not important for cap stuff.

Guarantee conditions are pretty much uncontrolled, except each salary year cannot be guaranteed for more money (as a percentage of salary) than the previous one. The Jak guarantee itself isn't cumulative - there's just a bunch of conditions that each trigger a different increase to the amount.

You're right, that was the old CBA. Actually, I now think it is probably a guarantee and not an incentive as incentives seem specific to a particular season, i.e. do this in season X and get Y dollars.

These guarantees are basically total catastrophe protection, but not much more than that.

[DelAbbot]

Does this extension mean the bad moves of the past few years are actually by Bobby?

[HumbleRen]

Does this extension mean the bad moves of the past few years are actually by Bobby?

Firm yes.

[dballislife]

seems like every game hes putting up 8 pts and 7 reb and isnt doing enough out there

[SharoneWright]

Every one of our big contracts is a bad contract, except Scottie. And mostly because he didn’t make all NBA. Which had nothing to do with management.

[ItsDanger]

But I was told that Bobby was a salary cap expert.

[Thaddy]

We should try trading him if we can. I would prefer a true rim protector that gets around 2-3 blocks per 36 minutes and contests more shots in the paint.

Maybe Detroit would be interested in exchange for Beef Stew. Maybe Portland wants to trade Clingan and make room for Hansen.

Poeltl + 2027 1st + Agbaji for Clingan + Thybulle

Clingan
CMB
Barnes
Ingram
IQ

Long term we could do something like the above. Short term we could use RJ instead of CMB. This would open up a lot of cap room for us.

[Kingsway_fan]

If this gm had been shrewd like Atlanta gm, instead of a role-player in CMB, we could now be sitting on a likely top 3 pick in next year's draft... fk

[OhCanada]

If this gm had been shrewd like Atlanta gm, instead of a role-player in CMB, we could now be sitting on a likely top 3 pick in next year's draft... fk

Nope. We needed a 6'6 Center that cant currently rebound, defend Center's or defend the rim.

[Anticon]

Does this extension mean the bad moves of the past few years are actually by Bobby?

Firm yes.

Every part of the Jakob deal has been a complete mess.

And when we finally need him... he's injured and can't compete like we need him to.

[Hero]

I remember when we signed this guy and he was a rookie. Who would have expected back then that this is where it would end up.

[HumbleRen]

Does this extension mean the bad moves of the past few years are actually by Bobby?

Firm yes.

Every part of the Jakob deal has been a complete mess.

And when we finally need him... he's injured and can't compete like we need him to.

I said it at the same that the trade would have long term effects that hurt us for the rest of the 2020’s.

It’s not Poeltl’s fault. He’s a fine player. Our FO was just extremely desperate and Poeltl and his agent took full advantage of it.

[bluerap23]

anyone here try to play ball with a bad back?

[HumbleRen]

anyone here try to play ball with a bad back?

It’s almost as if you shouldn’t extend a limited center who just turned 30 until 2030.

[JB7]

Firm yes.

Every part of the Jakob deal has been a complete mess.

And when we finally need him... he's injured and can't compete like we need him to.

I said it at the same that the trade would have long term effects that hurt us for the rest of the 2020’s.

It’s not Poeltl’s fault. He’s a fine player. Our FO was just extremely desperate and Poeltl and his agent took full advantage of it.

Because this team without a competent C looks amazing. Oh ya, I forgot, we wanted to tank for all of the 2020's

[DelAbbot]

anyone here try to play ball with a bad back?

anyone here try to extend an aging center unnecessarily at overpay prices?