Update: It is time to trade Scottie Barnes before it's too late!

[ConSarnit]

No way. He has far too much floor impact from his defense and transition play. The offense isn't great but he's still a strong floor impact player.

He was the best player on the team today and a big reason why we won. He's worth his deal and would get it again. This is also preseason.

Casual fans look at scoring and think some players are great. Barnes is the opposite of empty calories.

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

I don't put stock into awards anymore. It's more of a popularity contest than actual skills and dominance.

Barnes is worth his contract as he is, and I think he's already all defense level. He's dealing with a knee injury and should dominate in the paint once it's better. I noticed he isn't dunking even in warm ups. The way the fanbase believes he sat out and faked an injury is ridiculous. Barnes isn't that type of person or player.

I think eventually him and CMB put together a top 5 defense and transition offense. Their scoring will gradually come along as they get playoff experience.

Where is the evidence to support this? We were 6th percentile in transition scoring last year. The year before that we were 55th percentile and that was with Siakam (a very good transition player). Barnes individual transition numbers have always been bad.

Earlier you posted that Barnes isn’t empty calories. His scoring last year was literally some of the most empty calories scoring there is. 19ppg on 53% TS is terrible.

You guys keep citing things that you think Barnes will do well yet there is zero evidence to back up your assertions. I get why we gave him his contract but he’s not worth $40m per year right now.

[tsherkin]

Just looked at his combine measurements and you are right he is 6’7. But at the same time he’s 19 and still likely growing.
It is pretty early to declare him a stud or bust right now, but the kid doesn’t look out of place. I find it funny how people talk like he’s the next thon maker.

It's definitely wicked early to judge him, unquestionably. He hasn't even played RS games, so nothing that's happening right now is at all relevant. And like I said, he could have a rough-looking rookie campaign from a percentages standpoint and it wouldn't really matter. Utah isn't exactly a high-octane offense, so it would be fairly normal for him to struggle if he's given any real shooting burden, and could still turn into something very good, certainly.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

How tall?

[PushDaRock]

If not for the extension, are people thinking he'd have gotten the Kuminga/Giddey treatment as an RFA?

I think Brooklyn would have thrown a max at him, and maybe some other teams would have tried to move things around to make an offer.

RFA is weird though, so who knows.

He was ROY and made an all-star team. There's no way he would have gotten that treatment and the Raptors had no chance pulling it off.

Also note that Giddey was already traded and Kuminga is going to get traded. You can't pull that stuff on RFAs you drafted if you want to keep them. Best we could have done is get a slight discount, like the Rockets have been getting from players they actually want to keep.

I would agree that it's not realistic that he ever makes it to RFA and the max extension at the time was a given but it's also hard to imagine he gets fully maxed out if he was an RFA this offseason after the year he just had.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

The key would have been getting him off the books before the extension. Then we wouldn't have to deal with all this money.

[mihaic]

It took 2 pre season games.

To be fair it took the whole last season plus the 2 games. And he's now on a max contract and he should and will be judged accordingly, so he needs to turn it up. Media will be on his case too, with Masai out.

I expected him to be better at this stage, given his rookie year. For example Chris Bosh was better at the same stage of his career IIRC.

[ronaldo922]

Yes it is.

BUT

you need a starter in return. 3 and D but there arent many and not cheap either. Everyone else is seeing this Scottie. I dont even know if theres one team thinking, we can turn him into a star

[Appostis]

It took 2 pre season games.

To be fair it took the whole last season plus the 2 games. And he's now on a max contract and he should and will be judged accordingly, so he needs to turn it up. Media will be on his case too, with Masai out.

I expected him to be better at this stage, given his rookie year. For example Chris Bosh was better at the same stage of his career IIRC.

It's preseason..
"We're talking about preseason. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. We're talking about preseason."

[HangTime]

It took 2 pre season games.

To be fair it took the whole last season plus the 2 games. And he's now on a max contract and he should and will be judged accordingly, so he needs to turn it up. Media will be on his case too, with Masai out.

I expected him to be better at this stage, given his rookie year. For example Chris Bosh was better at the same stage of his career IIRC.

It's preseason..
"We're talking about preseason. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. We're talking about preseason."

It's kind of funny that people can't see how good Scottie actually is. I think his dynamic style of play throws them off. He's like a futuristic player.

[JB7]

If you are worried about tax, the last thing you do is trade for 2 overpaid players. If and when OKC feels the tax crunch, you can be damn sure that Shai will not be the one hitting the market. They'll retool by trading one of Chet/Jdub for cheap rookie contracts and picks and decide against trading the MVP/FMVP who brought their first title and is still only 26. This is a fanciful idea

Again, the premise is OKC starts stripping down their team because of the tax implications, and SGA demands a trade out, and specifically to the Raps.

There is no way OKC is trading SGA without a trade demand from him.

In this scenario, they would trade him to a team that can give them young cheap talent and picks. Toronto doesnt have the young cheap blue chip talent and only has their own picks.

A lot of guys dictate to their teams to get to a location. If that team doesnt have the assets, they dont get the player. Barnes and IQ would have to get a lot better (from overpaid starter level players to near/at star level) for them to be the meat of a Shai trade.

Barnes and IQ are actually younger than SGA. I would think if SGA asks out, they would want talent that could help them continue to compete.

And don't tell me the NBA isn't noticing what is happening in the US.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6713950/2025/10/13/milwaukee-bucks-doc-rivers-denounces-ice-chicago/

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Jinx master has done Scottie a favour.

All-Star season coming up for Scottie B

My sympathetic neurone activated and I was crying Del Abbot tears after reading the OP's post.

[Thaddy]

Agreed. I don't think he's anywhere close to "toxic asset" status, even if his contract is a bit of an overpay. There are more max contracts than all-NBA-level superstars, so some of them won't be "worth it," but if you want them on your team, that's the price.

He might not be one of those "top 25 trade assets in the league" anymore, but a lot of guys lose that status as soon as they sign an extension (as if the extension would not become an issue for a new team). It's the player version of draft picks vs. players in the league who are actually good.

I recognize there are practical reasons for this. If your player on a rookie contract is any good you're basically stealing vs having to (over)pay for their production on an extension. It also changes what teams would have to do to accomodate a contract of that size. Rookie contract Scottie Barnes? Every team in the league shuffles some contracts around to make room. $40M contract Scottie Barnes? You need to make some real decisions to accomodate that salary slot, and the number of teams willing to do so may be lower. I still think that number of teams might be fairly high, but we have a season to play and a new cap environment that is still in flux.

I don't put stock into awards anymore. It's more of a popularity contest than actual skills and dominance.

Barnes is worth his contract as he is, and I think he's already all defense level. He's dealing with a knee injury and should dominate in the paint once it's better. I noticed he isn't dunking even in warm ups. The way the fanbase believes he sat out and faked an injury is ridiculous. Barnes isn't that type of person or player.

I think eventually him and CMB put together a top 5 defense and transition offense. Their scoring will gradually come along as they get playoff experience.

Where is the evidence to support this? We were 6th percentile in transition scoring last year. The year before that we were 55th percentile and that was with Siakam (a very good transition player). Barnes individual transition numbers have always been bad.

Earlier you posted that Barnes isn’t empty calories. His scoring last year was literally some of the most empty calories scoring there is. 19ppg on 53% TS is terrible.

You guys keep citing things that you think Barnes will do well yet there is zero evidence to back up your assertions. I get why we gave him his contract but he’s not worth $40m per year right now.

You’re oversimplifying it. The team being 6th percentile in transition says more about the system and pace than it does about Barnes. Toronto barely ran last year and when they did it was mostly him pushing the ball. He was top five among forwards in grab and go plays and still put up around 1.07 points per transition possession, which is slightly above average. His assist rate on those plays was in the mid 80s percentile. That is not a player who is bad in transition.

The empty calories thing does not hold up either. Nineteen point nine points, eight rebounds, six assists, one and a half blocks, and over one steal per game at 22 years old is rare. His BPM was 3.9 and his defensive EPM was top ten among forwards. That is all impact, not hollow production.

The true shooting number is not ideal but context matters. He was initiating offense on a roster with poor spacing and no reliable secondary creator. You are treating him like a finisher when in reality he was asked to run the entire offense.

The contract argument is also weak. Only a few players his age have ever put up those numbers and they all turned into franchise level players. You are not paying him for what he is today. You are paying for what he is clearly on track to become.

[Merit]

To be fair it took the whole last season plus the 2 games. And he's now on a max contract and he should and will be judged accordingly, so he needs to turn it up. Media will be on his case too, with Masai out.

I expected him to be better at this stage, given his rookie year. For example Chris Bosh was better at the same stage of his career IIRC.

It's preseason..
"We're talking about preseason. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. We're talking about preseason."

It's kind of funny that people can't see how good Scottie actually is. I think his dynamic style of play throws them off. He's like a futuristic player.

I really like Scottie but I would move him for a select few - of which Giannis is one.

[mihaic]

It took 2 pre season games.

To be fair it took the whole last season plus the 2 games. And he's now on a max contract and he should and will be judged accordingly, so he needs to turn it up. Media will be on his case too, with Masai out.

I expected him to be better at this stage, given his rookie year. For example Chris Bosh was better at the same stage of his career IIRC.

It's preseason..
"We're talking about preseason. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. Not a regular season game. We're talking about preseason."

Not sure I understand your post. Were u not reading what I wrote? See the item in bold font. I was simply saying that most people judge him based on the last season, plus the two pre-season games he played in the same mild and pattern. Scottie is a good player, just not yet at max contract level.
Read the post!

PS Don't be too angry, for your own sanity; it's just a discussion forum. Cheers!

[brownbobcat]

It's kind of funny that people can't see how good Scottie actually is. I think his dynamic style of play throws them off. He's like a futuristic player.

I'm always amused by these debates about certain players with "truthers" on one side talking about how special they are and how nobody else sees it.
It's not like he's a rookie or a guy buried on the bench without opportunity.

[JPHolling]

CMB still has a lot to prove obviously.
I think waiting for a potential trade of a disgruntled star is the better option. Giannas, Embiid, Jokic will all likely be on the block next summer

[CazOnReal]

Preseason really does a good job of letting you know whose opinions you can ignore for when the season starts proper.

[DreamTeam09]

Preseason really does a good job of letting you know whose opinions you can ignore for when the season starts proper.

Amen to that brother

[LoveMyRaps]

I like Scottie a lot but I'm a tad bit concerned about the fit with Ingram.

Seeing him excel last game from the same spots Ingram likes to get to, makes me think there will be too much of an overlap.
Neither one of them is a consistent 3pt shooter either so ideally you want them to stick to mid-range.

Although Ingram has shot well from outside in preseason so maybe that carries over to the regular season and we can put him in more catch & shoot positions, allowing Scottie to operate from mid-range.

It'll be interesting to see how the two work.

On the other hand, RJ and Ingram seem to have instant chemistry - probably because RJ's greatest weakness is Ingram's greatest strength, and vice versa.

[anotherhomer]

I like Scottie a lot but I'm a tad bit concerned about the fit with Ingram.

Seeing him excel last game from the same spots Ingram likes to get to, makes me think there will be too much of an overlap.
Neither one of them is a consistent 3pt shooter either so ideally you want them to stick to mid-range.

Although Ingram has shot well from outside in preseason so maybe that carries over to the regular season and we can put him in more catch & shoot positions, allowing Scottie to operate from mid-range.

It'll be interesting to see how the two work.

On the other hand, RJ and Ingram seem to have instant chemistry - probably because RJ's greatest weakness is Ingram's greatest strength, and vice versa.

that's a good point raise....with Darko, Webster having a lot to prove, they won't hestitate to dump Barnes to put together a competitive team