D Smith: Bosh for Lee, Gallo (Update pg 9)

[BrickHeads]

Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for clearing this up.

You wouldn't by chance be Bosh's Agent would you?

[whysoserious]

No, I'd rather sign a big new contract at age 29 than at 30.

The next CBA will be similar to the current one, for the following reasons:
1) The player's union have good lawyers too...if you expect they'll just lay down and let themselves get reamed, you are being delusional.
2) Look at how they are already alleging collusion after Stern released the new cap numbers. If they sue the NBA for abusing its monopoly powers, there is no reason to believe that the NBA will prevail (and remember, the US government generally does not look kindly on monopolies or near-monopolies who abuse their power.)
3) The economy is improving, so there will be no good arguments for the players to get substantial paycuts.
4) Players are saving up cash too in anticipation of a battle, so it isn't as you can just "starve" them out.

The NBA can say whatever they damn well please, but talk is cheap. The CBA won't change unless the economy goes into the tank again.

I understand that the Union has good lawyers too but remember the last time the CBA was negotiated it went more towards the owners and that was during an economic boom. Based on the current economy and all other factors I can't see how you can say that the CBA will remain the same. Even if the dollars stay the same I'm sure the owners will get shorter contracts. There will be changes coming, the owners can usually sustain a lockout longer than players can.

[trick]

You wouldn't by chance be Bosh's Agent would you?

[Ripp]

No, I'd rather sign a big new contract at age 29 than at 30.

The next CBA will be similar to the current one, for the following reasons:
1) The player's union have good lawyers too...if you expect they'll just lay down and let themselves get reamed, you are being delusional.
2) Look at how they are already alleging collusion after Stern released the new cap numbers. If they sue the NBA for abusing its monopoly powers, there is no reason to believe that the NBA will prevail (and remember, the US government generally does not look kindly on monopolies or near-monopolies who abuse their power.)
3) The economy is improving, so there will be no good arguments for the players to get substantial paycuts.
4) Players are saving up cash too in anticipation of a battle, so it isn't as you can just "starve" them out.

The NBA can say whatever they damn well please, but talk is cheap. The CBA won't change unless the economy goes into the tank again.

I understand that the Union has good lawyers too but remember the last time the CBA was negotiated it went more towards the owners and that was during an economic boom. Based on the current economy and all other factors I can't see how you can say that the CBA will remain the same. Even if the dollars stay the same I'm sure the owners will get shorter contracts. There will be changes coming, the owners can usually sustain a lockout longer than players can.

The players got a better CBA in 2005 than the one in 1999, it appears:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#appendix

Anyway, we shall see. I'm not saying it will stay exactly the same...I just don't think it will be too different.

[tnugget]

this thread is too intense. i'm learning too much sh*t. i really shud b studyin tho:)

[whysoserious]

The players got a better CBA in 2005 than the one in 1999, it appears:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#appendix

Anyway, we shall see. I'm not saying it will stay exactly the same...I just don't think it will be too different.

Looks to me like everything that changed, changed in the favour of the owners, lower raise, lower contract years, lower bonuses.

[Fairview4Life]

The players got a better CBA in 2005 than the one in 1999, it appears:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#appendix

Anyway, we shall see. I'm not saying it will stay exactly the same...I just don't think it will be too different.

Looks to me like everything that changed, changed in the favour of the owners, lower raise, lower contract years, lower bonuses.

Slightly higher % of BRI to the players though, right?

[ATLTimekeeper]

No, I'd rather sign a big new contract at age 29 than at 30.

The next CBA will be similar to the current one, for the following reasons:
1) The player's union have good lawyers too...if you expect they'll just lay down and let themselves get reamed, you are being delusional.
2) Look at how they are already alleging collusion after Stern released the new cap numbers. If they sue the NBA for abusing its monopoly powers, there is no reason to believe that the NBA will prevail (and remember, the US government generally does not look kindly on monopolies or near-monopolies who abuse their power.)
3) The economy is improving, so there will be no good arguments for the players to get substantial paycuts.
4) Players are saving up cash too in anticipation of a battle, so it isn't as you can just "starve" them out.

The NBA can say whatever they damn well please, but talk is cheap. The CBA won't change unless the economy goes into the tank again.

You may be willing to take the risk, but you're not a professional athlete. Bosh can negotiate the last year as a player option if he wants to re-examine his bargaining power after 5 years, but it would be stupid of him to turn down a 6th year for the reasons you listed.

[whysoserious]

The players got a better CBA in 2005 than the one in 1999, it appears:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#appendix

Anyway, we shall see. I'm not saying it will stay exactly the same...I just don't think it will be too different.

Looks to me like everything that changed, changed in the favour of the owners, lower raise, lower contract years, lower bonuses.

Slightly higher % of BRI to the players though, right?

Yes it was higher, but wouldn't that sort of be offset by the lower raises, shorter contracts? I'm no cap expert. And that CBA was signed during an economic boom, this time around it will be even tougher.

[scirocco53]

Bosh / Hedo for Lee and Gallinari is crazy. No way that NY does this. As much as I want Bosh to stay, I do not think that we have what it takes to bring a second star here. Our only hope would have been if Derozan turned into a Paul Pierce in his first year being drafted 9th.

Bosh would see that he has a stud scorrer for at least 4 years here, and would have been a lot more likely to sign.

[OAKLEY_2]

Bosh would see that he has a stud scorrer for at least 4 years here, and would have been a lot more likely to sign.

He is not going to base his decision on the accelerated progress of a 20 year old kid. McGrady had like 8 ppg his first year! The biggest mistake we could make is to S+T Bosh for another power forward. The second biggest would be to trade Derozan for somebody like Igoudala to placate Bosh. I think Gallo is last man standing in New York and is virtually untouchable. Trading with New York is the worst of all situations for the Raptors besides having Bosh leave outright. I think Chicago is lousy as well because you know they won't give up Noah.

[raps_aviator]

if this trade goes down.. i'll stop watching the raptors

[Clutch Carter]

I don't really like Lee or Gallo myself, it's probably the best value we'd get for CB.

[Attonitus]

if this trade goes down.. i'll stop watching the raptors

So if they get close to the best ever return in max. contract sign and trade history and you will stop supporting the team?

You might not like the players individually but it's still as good of a return as there will be out there (personally I don't even think the Knicks would do this trade) and Lee and Gallo would both be very valuable trade chips in the future, I would hate to see Bosh in the division but this seems liek a no-brainer if bosh wants out.

[D-Wins-RingsIMO]

this trade SUCKS compared to some of the juicy Lakers/Thunder proposals being bandied about in other threads.

[Funky D]

Trading a black player for two white guys - and one of them if an ITALIAN....

Bad idea.

[James_Raptors]

Trading a black player for two white guys - and one of them if an ITALIAN....

Bad idea.

Are you being sarcastic?

[andyo]

if this trade goes down.. i'll stop watching the raptors

So if they get close to the best ever return in max. contract sign and trade history and you will stop supporting the team?

You might not like the players individually but it's still as good of a return as there will be out there (personally I don't even think the Knicks would do this trade) and Lee and Gallo would both be very valuable trade chips in the future, I would hate to see Bosh in the division but this seems liek a no-brainer if bosh wants out.

That won't be the best return imo. I'd honestly rather just get back Gallo and Curry than Gallo and Lee. I'm adamant on the fact that Lee would make our team worse, just by his contract status alone. I don't even think you realize how bad he is defensively. Bargnani and David Lee locked up for the next 5 years in our frontcourt will accomplish nothing.

[dagger]

if this trade goes down.. i'll stop watching the raptors

So if they get close to the best ever return in max. contract sign and trade history and you will stop supporting the team?

You might not like the players individually but it's still as good of a return as there will be out there (personally I don't even think the Knicks would do this trade) and Lee and Gallo would both be very valuable trade chips in the future, I would hate to see Bosh in the division but this seems liek a no-brainer if bosh wants out.

That won't be the best return imo. I'd honestly rather just get back Gallo and Curry than Gallo and Lee. I'm adamant on the fact that Lee would make our team worse, just by his contract status alone. I don't even think you realize how bad he is defensively. Bargnani and David Lee locked up for the next 5 years in our frontcourt will accomplish nothing.

I'm in agreement. I'd take Gallo without Lee because Lee is a UFA, he's not a good fit in any system we're likely to run, and the money he can command would be too rich. Curry, if nothing else, is an expiring contract. A big fat expiring contract.

[kosmovitelli]

Bosh / Hedo for Lee and Gallinari is crazy. No way that NY does this.

Yep. Knicks traded Jordan Hill and their 2012 first round pick to clear enough room for two max players. Obviously they won't waste their cap space on Hedo. There's also a rumor about Walsh not willing to give Lee more than $10 mil per season and thinking Chris Bosh isn't worth the max. Walsh repeatedly said he wants to manage the Knicks cap and his (re)building process doesn't end in 2010. Walsh cleared cap space to use it, I doubt he cleared cap room to give up assets in a sign and trade. If the Knicks had room for only one max player then I could see him giving up assets to get Bosh and pair him with Lebron. Right now, I really don't think he will give up anything to acquire Bosh. He would probably rather resign Lee than give up assets for Bosh. Knicks simply can't afford to give up assets at this point. I also wonder why some think Chris Bosh would accept to sign with the Knicks if Hedo's also going to the Knicks and Gallo and Lee are going to the Raptors. Knicks wouldn't be that much better than the Raptors this season if they did that. Not only Walsh wouldn't do it but I doubt Bosh would have any interest in the Knicks if they have to give up starters to acquire him. Bosh wants to win and he has lots of options. Knicks also have options (Lebron, Wade, Amare, Johnson, Boozer, etc.) and their own FA (Lee) and if they can't attract max players then ther are trade options (acquiring players under contract with cap room). Lebron is a must have but Bosh is not. If he wants his sixth year and only wants to move via sign and trade then my guess is he will have to get it elsewhere than NY.

At best, the Knicks would use Lee to acquire Bosh. They won't give up Gallinari and obviously they won't take Hedo's ridiculous contract. Can't even understand why would anyone believe the Knicks would not only trade Lee and Gallinari but would also accept Hedo's contract. The Raptors made a mistake last year with Hedo. No team is going to help them clear Hedo's contract. All teams that wanted to reduce their payroll had to pay the price for it.

Anyway, I'm surprised some Raptors fans even think they can do better than Gallinari and Lee. Considering Bosh's free agent status it would be incredible value for Bosh. No team has ever gotten that much in a sign and trade for an unrestricted free agent. Everyone is entitled to his opinion but I truly wonder why Raps fans are so optimistic they will get lots of value for Bosh. It's good to be positive but I must say I'm surprised to see so many fans optimistic the Raps will get good value for Bosh.