Houston readying full-court press for Bosh

[hype_2004]

Why would he ask a question he already knows the answer to. No good can come of asking for Yao. If anything it will impact the trade with Houston negatively, and they might offer us less return.

Then they don't get Bosh, it seems like the Raps have no power in this negotiation but reality holds the trump card as Houston does not I repeat does not have cap space to give Bosh his money.

[RocLaFamilia]

What?? No way man, budinger is sick and hill has talent as well. Brooks is...pedestrian to say the least. If you think jack cant play defence wait till you see broooooooks

have you seen chase play? he was an outstanding rookie

we need more athletic players and he would EASILY be our most athletic player...this kid is SICK

+1, Air Bud is awesome, and signed to a super-cheap 4 year deal. Was pretty much a rockstar pickup by Morey.

I have never really paid attention to his game, but you guys just made me watch a few highlights of him. This guys shot is wet, can throw down and seems to hustle. I am on this guys bandwagon!

Bosh + Beli for Lowry + Chase + Jeffries + picks

[neurotik]

Why would he ask a question he already knows the answer to. No good can come of asking for Yao. If anything it will impact the trade with Houston negatively, and they might offer us less return.

Then they don't get Bosh, it seems like the Raps have no power in this negotiation but reality holds the trump card as Houston does not I repeat does not have cap space to give Bosh his money.

What? How do they not have the cap space? What do you think these Toronto/Houston threads are based around. Houston can simply make the salaries match when the trade is made. They have the expirings to do so and those expirings are an asset to us. Also if it is needed for Houston to go a little into the luxury tax for them to complete a trade that makes them instant contenders I'm sure they will fork over the money. There is no trump card with Houston. There is no trump card with any of the teams that are potential trade partners. That is why we will not get an even return for Bosh and will have to settle for pennies on the dollar.

[RocLaFamilia]

Why would he ask a question he already knows the answer to. No good can come of asking for Yao. If anything it will impact the trade with Houston negatively, and they might offer us less return.

Then they don't get Bosh, it seems like the Raps have no power in this negotiation but reality holds the trump card as Houston does not I repeat does not have cap space to give Bosh his money.

What? How do they not have the cap space? What do you think these Toronto/Houston threads are based around. Houston can simply make the salaries match when the trade is made. They have the expirings to do so and those expirings are an asset to us. Also if it is needed for Houston to go a little into the luxury tax for them to complete a trade that makes them instant contenders I'm sure they will fork over the money. There is no trump card with Houston. There is no trump card with any of the teams that are potential trade partners. That is why we will not get an even return for Bosh and will have to settle for pennies on the dollar.

What makes you think BC will say YES to any trade offered by Houston? I think your misunderstood on this, if a team is over the cap, they have no choice but to send salary back to us. That allows us to say no to what salary is coming over, But Miami has the cap space to sign him out right, so in the end Bosh is the one who gets screwed out of 30 mill, unless they do a S and T with us, in which they will send less pieces.

[RocLaFamilia]

I also think your confusing Cap Space and the Luxury Tax amount.

[dagger]

What? How do they not have the cap space? What do you think these Toronto/Houston threads are based around. Houston can simply make the salaries match when the trade is made. They have the expirings to do so and those expirings are an asset to us. Also if it is needed for Houston to go a little into the luxury tax for them to complete a trade that makes them instant contenders I'm sure they will fork over the money. There is no trump card with Houston. There is no trump card with any of the teams that are potential trade partners. That is why we will not get an even return for Bosh and will have to settle for pennies on the dollar.

I don't understand your rationale. A team without cap space cannot force a sign and trade on another team. They need the approval of the free agent as well as his current team. The free agent would only get such a trade through if he was willing to ditch this team without cap space and sign for five years with a team with sufficient cap space. Now if Houston's is the best offer as well as Bosh's preferred destination, then it would be in our interest to take the Rockets' offer. But Houston cannot compel the Raptors to take any old offer just because it can catch salaries under the 125% rule.

[Ripp]

I have never really paid attention to his game, but you guys just made me watch a few highlights of him. This guys shot is wet, can throw down and seems to hustle. I am on this guys bandwagon!

Bosh + Beli for Lowry + Chase + Jeffries + picks

Yeah, you should Wikipedia the guy. He is from some volleball family in CA...hence the sick vertical. He lacks lateral quickness and a good wingspan, but aside from that has some very nice tools.

Rockets overall are a very fun team to watch. 6'6 C, two SFs on the wing, a pylon PF and PG, a backup PG who can't shoot, a bunch of minimum wage rookies. Yet despite this odd and seemingly terrible looking bunch of talent, they won 42 games. Between this and last year's playoff series against Portland and LA, I've become convinced that Adelman is one of the best in the biz...he will wring every drop of talent that exists in a player's body.

And their books are sooo clean....no bad contracts! Just an outstanding organization overall.

[RocLaFamilia]

I have never really paid attention to his game, but you guys just made me watch a few highlights of him. This guys shot is wet, can throw down and seems to hustle. I am on this guys bandwagon!

Bosh + Beli for Lowry + Chase + Jeffries + picks

Yeah, you should Wikipedia the guy. He is from some volleball family in CA...hence the sick vertical. He lacks lateral quickness and a good wingspan, but aside from that has some very nice tools.

Rockets overall are a very fun team to watch. 6'6 C, two SFs on the wing, a pylon PF and PG, a backup PG who can't shoot, a bunch of minimum wage rookies. Yet despite this odd and seemingly terrible looking bunch of talent, they won 42 games. Between this and last year's playoff series against Portland and LA, I've become convinced that Adelman is one of the best in the biz...he will wring every drop of talent that exists in a player's body.

And their books are sooo clean....no bad contracts! Just an outstanding organization overall.

Yeah Rick did a great job in Sac, not surprised by the Rockets team. They have a few nice pieces that might help us in the long run. I am hoping Bosh wants Houston, I want a fresh start (or as fresh as we can get).

[neurotik]

What? How do they not have the cap space? What do you think these Toronto/Houston threads are based around. Houston can simply make the salaries match when the trade is made. They have the expirings to do so and those expirings are an asset to us. Also if it is needed for Houston to go a little into the luxury tax for them to complete a trade that makes them instant contenders I'm sure they will fork over the money. There is no trump card with Houston. There is no trump card with any of the teams that are potential trade partners. That is why we will not get an even return for Bosh and will have to settle for pennies on the dollar.

I don't understand your rationale. A team without cap space cannot force a sign and trade on another team. They need the approval of the free agent as well as his current team. The free agent would only get such a trade through if he was willing to ditch this team without cap space and sign for five years with a team with sufficient cap space. Now if Houston's is the best offer as well as Bosh's preferred destination, then it would be in our interest to take the Rockets' offer. But Houston cannot compel the Raptors to take any old offer just because it can catch salaries under the 125% rule.

Maybe I misunderstood the original post or maybe I phrased my post poorly. All I was trying to say is that Houston can make a trade with the Raptors to acquire Bosh. I guess the original post was pointing out that Bosh cannot sign with Houston without a S&T, unless they go into the luxury tax, in which case, yes that is true.

And yes Houston will not be able to compel us to accept a bad offer. This is why I think they will be our best trading partner. I am not sold on Bynum (too injury prone).

[panthermark]

Rockets overall are a very fun team to watch. 6'6 C, two SFs on the wing, a pylon PF and PG, a backup PG who can't shoot, a bunch of minimum wage rookies. Yet despite this odd and seemingly terrible looking bunch of talent, they won 42 games. Between this and last year's playoff series against Portland and LA, I've become convinced that Adelman is one of the best in the biz...he will wring every drop of talent that exists in a player's body.

And their books are sooo clean....no bad contracts! Just an outstanding organization overall.

I have to agree, Houston is a well run team. Houston has only had 3 coaches in the last zillion years. RudyT, JVG, and Adelman... Now...my Bulls on the other hand....

Between family in Houston, Robert Horry, The Dream, and Stevie Franchise/Cutty (before Francis went nuts)....I've always liked the Rockets.

[RocLaFamilia]

I guess the original post was pointing out that Bosh cannot sign with Houston without a S&T, unless they go into the luxury tax,

That part is wrong. You can't sign a free agent if you are OVER the cap, the only free agent you can sign when your over the cap is using your MLE, LLE and Vet min I believe. Going into Lux tax would need to involved in trades.

[neurotik]

I guess the original post was pointing out that Bosh cannot sign with Houston without a S&T, unless they go into the luxury tax,

That part is wrong. You can't sign a free agent if you are OVER the cap, the only free agent you can sign when your over the cap is using your MLE, LLE and Vet min I believe. Going into Lux tax would need to involved in trades.

Thanks. I didnt know that. This explains my bad rationale lol. But I still stand behind my statement that the Raps dont have enough leverage to have any chance of acquiring Yao. Nor should they because, as I stated before, he wouldnt be the right answer for this team (unless you look at it from the point of the MLSE, i know hype).

[Ripp]

BTW, another thing in favor of doing a deal with Houston...Morey is a shrewd businessman, yes, but generally tries to avoid reaming opposing GMs so that they don't fear dealing with him again in the future. Although Morey is almost certainly aware of the dire straights Colangelo is in, Morey seems unlikely to completely bend him over. He wants to do good business, but not necessarily break other GMs.
Also, given his excellent ability to draft, 2nd round picks for him are the equivalent of first rounders. So he wouldn't hold on to them for dear life, as other teams might.
So given this, I suspect that the haul will be decent (i.e., some mix of Houston and NY picks, young prospects, win-now pieces like Battier that can be flipped for another young asset). Basically enough for Colangelo to argue that he "won."

[C_Money]

Its a given that we're getting Shane Battier back if we do anything with Houston.

[RocLaFamilia]

posted this in the other thread:

No your right BC won't pick his destination, but he will turn down any deal that he feels that is unfair return for Bosh. BC's leverage is he can say no, and basically wait and see if Bosh call's his bluff to walk away from 30 million dollars.

People seem to think its two extreme's:

1) Bosh has all the power and will dictate where he goes, BC will have no say and get less than pennies on the dollar

2) BC has all the power, and will get a 80-90% return on Bosh, sending him to whichever team gives the best offer

these option will neither happen, it will be a combination of the two

bosh will give BC a list of teams, in order of which one he wants to go to first to last. Most likely 3 teams, BC will work out deals with each one, come back to Bosh to see what pieces are going (if the situation is ok for him when he goes there). Both BC and Bosh will give up a little so they both get what they want. and this isn't out of the realm.

[bboyskinnylegs]

BTW, another thing in favor of doing a deal with Houston...Morey is a shrewd businessman, yes, but generally tries to avoid reaming opposing GMs so that they don't fear dealing with him again in the future. Although Morey is almost certainly aware of the dire straights Colangelo is in, Morey seems unlikely to completely bend him over. He wants to do good business, but not necessarily break other GMs.
Also, given his excellent ability to draft, 2nd round picks for him are the equivalent of first rounders. So he wouldn't hold on to them for dear life, as other teams might.
So given this, I suspect that the haul will be decent (i.e., some mix of Houston and NY picks, young prospects, win-now pieces like Battier that can be flipped for another young asset). Basically enough for Colangelo to argue that he "won."

Morey got Kevin Martin for Landry, and completely exploited NY by getting Hill (their #8 pick in this draft), the top-1 protected 2011 pick swap, and top-5 protected 2012 pick, all to free up a little bit of cap room for NY. If that isn't bending over Walsh, I don't know what is.

[GhostRaider2007]

And yes Houston will not be able to compel us to accept a bad offer. This is why I think they will be our best trading partner. I am not sold on Bynum (too injury prone).

I agree on all counts.

I also don't expect to get a low ball/bad offer from Houston as well.

If the trade that almost went down for Amare at this years trade deadline was in fact based around Scola, Battier, and first round draft picks as I have read on several Rockets boards including the one here at RealGm then I expect we will be getting a similar offer as well in it won't be a lowball or bad offer especially given the importance Houston has put on obtaining Bosh for next year.

[Ripp]

BTW, another thing in favor of doing a deal with Houston...Morey is a shrewd businessman, yes, but generally tries to avoid reaming opposing GMs so that they don't fear dealing with him again in the future. Although Morey is almost certainly aware of the dire straights Colangelo is in, Morey seems unlikely to completely bend him over. He wants to do good business, but not necessarily break other GMs.
Also, given his excellent ability to draft, 2nd round picks for him are the equivalent of first rounders. So he wouldn't hold on to them for dear life, as other teams might.
So given this, I suspect that the haul will be decent (i.e., some mix of Houston and NY picks, young prospects, win-now pieces like Battier that can be flipped for another young asset). Basically enough for Colangelo to argue that he "won."

Morey got Kevin Martin for Landry, and completely exploited NY by getting Hill (their #8 pick in this draft), the top-1 protected 2011 pick swap, and top-5 protected 2012 pick, all to free up a little bit of cap room for NY. If that isn't bending over Walsh, I don't know what is.

I'm not sure that is bending anyone over. He sold high on Landry (a 6'7 PF who has had ACL surgery in college, can't rebound, poor defender), and bought low on Martin. That is just being a good businessman, not reaming anyone. Plus he'd had an interest in Martin for a significant period of time, it wasn't like he just swooped in with a lowball offer and carted Martin away.

Regarding NY...the TMac contract was extremely valuable. Remember, Chicago was also interested. And truth be told, it was beneficial for both sides...Knicks got to clear out additional capspace for a guy (Jordan Hill) they had declared a bust. That was NYs fault for declaring the guy a bust...just because your coach is mediocre doesn't mean a guy is a bad basketball player.
At the time, the deal was:
1) TMac, a large expiring contract who might still have significant basketball life in him
2) For a bust in Jordan Hill, a pick swap, and a protected 2012 pick, and Jeffries terrible contract.

Obviously, the deal looks better for Morey in retrospect, since:
1) Hill is actually a solid player
2) It doesn't look like the Knicks will get anyone good
3) He bought Kevin Martin when his stock was low
4) He sold Landry when his stock was high.

But none of the above qualifies as reaming anyone over. You can't blame Morey for having a better coaching/scouts/research than other teams.

[Ripp]

^--- Think about how stupidly the Knicks handled the situation. You have an 8th overall pick, give him no PT, and publicly declare him a bust? Remember, Mike D'Antoni said that he doesn't like to play "bad rookies." They destroyed Hill's trade value themselves, and have no one to blame for it but themselves. You can't act as if Morey was the bully here...they screwed themselves over.

[thegame10]

Look on the bright side CB4 under a yao ming team will be a western conference starter no matter how he plays.