JV at EuroBasket 2013 is Done, Lithuania Gets Silver

[xprt]

if that guy didn't flop down, that was just an aggressive swipe through to clear space

And Kleiza after guy was on the floor threw ball at him..

[Bankai]

His previous team had a crappy offense as well. Raptors at least had guards who can pass the ball inside.
He isn't used to rolling right now, is slightly off sync I thought.

I agree with this post. I dont know what some of you guys saw, but I thought Lowry and Rudy did pass it Jonas in the post without force feeding him. Its normal in a outside-in system.

[jonny three time]

It makes sense that a Euro coach wouldn't like how the Raps are turning Val into more of an Iso scorer. At the same time, this is the direction he should go as a scorer. He's not quite athletic enough to be a pure roll guy like a young Amare, Dwight or Griffin. He's also not a good enough shooter to be a great pick and pop guy.

His upside is to be a post-up or even face-up type scorer. Like one of the Gasols or Duncan. That's how you maximize his type of physical talent.

[pbj]

It makes sense that a Euro coach wouldn't like how the Raps are turning Val into more of an Iso scorer. At the same time, this is the direction he should go as a scorer. He's not quite athletic enough to be a pure roll guy like a young Amare, Dwight or Griffin. He's also not a good enough shooter to be a great pick and pop guy.

His upside is to be a post-up or even face-up type scorer. Like one of the Gasols or Duncan. That's how you maximize his type of physical talent.

Yet....

[Darknemo2000]

His previous team had a crappy offense as well. Raptors at least had guards who can pass the ball inside.
He isn't used to rolling right now, is slightly off sync I thought.

I agree with this post. I dont know what some of you guys saw, but I thought Lowry and Rudy did pass it Jonas in the post without force feeding him.

If I remeber correctly Rudy gave more asists to DD and Lowry than Val. In fact his assist numbers to Val and amir were quite similar and very low. Lowry seemed to give Jonas assist the least from the starting 5 so its not like Jonas was used all that often really. 5 FGA per game speaks that they certainly werent trying to get Jonas involved offensively all that much.

[jonny three time]

It makes sense that a Euro coach wouldn't like how the Raps are turning Val into more of an Iso scorer. At the same time, this is the direction he should go as a scorer. He's not quite athletic enough to be a pure roll guy like a young Amare, Dwight or Griffin. He's also not a good enough shooter to be a great pick and pop guy.

His upside is to be a post-up or even face-up type scorer. Like one of the Gasols or Duncan. That's how you maximize his type of physical talent.

Yet....

I'm not trying to knock the guy, but I doubt his jumper will ever be at a Bosh, Bargs, Garnett, Love, Anderson level. That was my point. He's never going to be an elite pick and pop guy, while he's just not quite athletic enough to be a great pick and roll guy either. He's more of a well-rounded guy who can shoot a bit and roll a bit, but because his offense is more dynamic than that, he should be an Iso guy with a variety of moves in the mid-post area (face-up or post-up).

In Europe, he might have had enough of an athletic advantage to be a pick and roll specialist. Over there his quickness and hops were better than just about everyone he matched up with. He's not meant to be that type of player in the NBA though.

[JV4MVP]

if that guy didn't flop down, that was just an aggressive swipe through to clear space

And Kleiza after guy was on the floor threw ball at him..

I think Kleiza threw it because that guy flopped

[UcanUwill]

If I remeber correctly Rudy gave more asists to DD and Lowry than Val. In fact his assist numbers to Val and amir were quite similar and very low. Lowry seemed to give Jonas assist the least from the starting 5 so its not like Jonas was used all that often really. 5 FGA per game speaks that they certainly werent trying to get Jonas involved offensively all that much.

His movement without the ball changed, but not his usage rate.

12-13 season : 5.9 FGA 24 minutes
11-12 season : 6.5 FGA 23 Minutes

Rytas offense was worse. They used to ignore him inside, and he used to set 2-3 screens per possession at times. He had to constantly move and help out guards, because they were so freaking terrible. If you rewatch early last season games, you can actually see how Lowry and Calderon were kinda irritated by JV constantly setting screens in front of their faces. He seemed unfamiliar with the concept of independent guard play.
Over the year, those tendencies of JVs play kinda faded away, and now, when he has to play with those guards again, that shows.

[xprt]

I'm not trying to knock the guy, but I doubt his jumper will ever be at a Bosh, Bargs, Garnett, Love, Anderson level. That was my point. He's never going to be an elite pick and pop guy, while he's just not quite athletic enough to be a great pick and roll guy either. He's more of a well-rounded guy who can shoot a bit and roll a bit, but because his offense is more dynamic than that, he should be an Iso guy with a variety of moves in the mid-post area (face-up or post-up).

In Europe, he might have had enough of an athletic advantage to be a pick and roll specialist. Over there his quickness and hops were better than just about everyone he matched up with. He's not meant to be that type of player in the NBA though.

So he has enought speed to pump fake guys like Nene, Okofor and take to the basket but he cant be pick and roll specialist because he isnt athletic or fast enought? Flawless logic...
You clearly didnt watch him in Europe pick n roll was always his best part of his game and when he had his best pick n roll season with great pnr guard he was 18 years old stick ( around 215-220) against opponents 30-40lbs heaver than him and he didnt have any problem finishing. He clearly has speed to be pnr player and good look trying to stop him with the ball running at the basket with his soft touch and 7'4'' wingspan.

Was he slow here
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tZEO72fMw[/youtube]

and last time I checked Nowitzki and Kaman played in NBA.

Now about Jonas shooting.

shot distance Jonas Bargnani Love
less than 5ft 64.3% 50.0% 45.0%
5-9 ft. 44.1% 41.5% 31.0%
10-14 ft. 45.2% 42.1% 42.9%
15-19 ft. 37.2% 43.6% 40.0%

Jonas was best out of them three shooting from 1-14 ft. But he clearly will never be as good shooter as they

[UcanUwill]

Him being lighter and faster was more of the advantage in pick and roll play. I am not sure he could be consistent pick and roll finisher in the NBA, with the added weight. He is simply not as quick as before. He has good fundamentals and finishing ability though, so who knows.

And speaking about shooting, you are talking about very small sample size. Most if not all of his mid range attempts were balanced and wide open. Tho again, I do think he can develop a KG mid range jumper, he is already a passable pick and pop option.

[jonny three time]

The face-up would be his secondary weapon after his post-up. If a guy is too big for him to back down, start using the face-up against him.

Last time I checked Dirk and Kaman were 2 of the least athletic players in the NBA, so great point there. You're crazy if you think Val is going to finish over the likes of Deandre, Ibaka, Dwight, Chandler, Mcgee, Drummond, Favors, Noel, A.Davis while rolling. It's a lot different finishing over NBA bigs than it is finishing over Euro nobodies.

Should he run pick and roll when he's up against a slow big? Of course. Should he run pick and pop against a big that doesn't come out far enough? Sure. He's not going to ever be a great scorer though if that is his go-to way of scoring. I don't care what he was in Europe. Over here he's going to have to refine his post moves like all the great post-up players.

His weapon over here is his versatility, overall coordination, hook shots with both hands, and eventually, his strength and bulk. He's already not quick enough/good enough hops, to be a great NBA PnR guy. He's good, but not great at it. Once he adds even more bulk it's going to slow him down from where he is now. So he's going to have to use that strength in the post. Plus, if you try to turn him into an Amare or Dwight type finisher, it will make him way more prone to injuries and his athleticism will be gone by his late 20s, maybe even mid 20s.

I don't care about what his Euro coaches want him to be. They don't appreciate how athletic NBA players are. In the NBA Val is more of a big SKILLED player, than he is a big SUPER ATHLETIC player.

[Anatomize]

Him being lighter and faster was more of the advantage in pick and roll play. I am not sure he could be consistent pick and roll finisher in the NBA, with the added weight. He is simply not as quick as before. He has good fundamentals and finishing ability though, so who knows.

And speaking about shooting, you are talking about very small sample size. Most if not all of his mid range attempts were balanced and wide open. Tho again, I do think he can develop a KG mid range jumper, he is already a passable pick and pop option.

I don't think he can develop a KG mid range, they have different release points and forms. KG's is a high arcing shot with a high release point, almost like a sling up top where he pockets it a bit at the height of the release point. KG can stretch out close to the 3 point line, much like Aldridge. Val in comparison has a flat line shot, it's a bit of a push, and he leans ever so slightly forward as he shoots it (which you'll notice he usually runs in first after his shot to follow it up incase it misses, that's because of the lean).

Val can have a nice freethrow line style jumper ala Duncan, but definitely not the range or consistency of KG.

[UcanUwill]

I don't think he can develop a KG mid range, they have different release points and forms. KG's is a high arcing shot with a high release point, almost like a sling up top where he pockets it a bit at the height of the release point. KG can stretch out close to the 3 point line, much like Aldridge. Val in comparison has a flat line shot, it's a bit of a push, and he leans ever so slightly forward as he shoots it (which you'll notice he usually runs in first after his shot to follow it up incase it misses, that's because of the lean).

Val can have a nice freethrow line style jumper ala Duncan, but definitely not the range or consistency of KG.

I dont know man, he made a few 21-24 feet jumpers last season. You are correct about his form, but I think you are underrating his shooting ability or potential. I am not sure he could make off balance shots, he takes time setting his feet. Thats really the only worry of my. His pure shooting will be good I think, he could develop a very good 20 foot jumper.

[JV4MVP]

Just because JV is Lithuanian means that he can develop an amazing jumper, even as good or better than KG's.

Every Lithuanian big man that I know, with the exception of Javtokas, can shoot jumpers, and many phenomenally well.

[xprt]

The face-up would be his secondary weapon after his post-up. If a guy is too big for him to back down, start using the face-up against him.

Last time I checked Dirk and Kaman were 2 of the least athletic players in the NBA, so great point there. You're crazy if you think Val is going to finish over the likes of Deandre, Ibaka, Dwight, Chandler, Mcgee, Drummond, Favors, Noel, A.Davis while rolling. It's a lot different finishing over NBA bigs than it is finishing over Euro nobodies.

Should he run pick and roll when he's up against a slow big? Of course. Should he run pick and pop against a big that doesn't come out far enough? Sure. He's not going to ever be a great scorer though if that is his go-to way of scoring. I don't care what he was in Europe. Over here he's going to have to refine his post moves like all the great post-up players.

His weapon over here is his versatility, overall coordination, hook shots with both hands, and eventually, his strength and bulk. He's already not quick enough/good enough hops, to be a great NBA PnR guy. He's good, but not great at it. Once he adds even more bulk it's going to slow him down from where he is now. So he's going to have to use that strength in the post. Plus, if you try to turn him into an Amare or Dwight type finisher, it will make him way more prone to injuries and his athleticism will be gone by his late 20s, maybe even mid 20s.

I don't care about what his Euro coaches want him to be. They don't appreciate how athletic NBA players are. In the NBA Val is more of a big SKILLED player, than he is a big SUPER ATHLETIC player.

Well here it is Valanciunas rolling and finishing against Dwight( its to bad Lowry sucks as PG in pnr system )
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNa5ydanVRY[/youtube]
Lol at mentioning Noel who didnt even play at NBA, A.Davis is such a twig would get manhandled by Valanciunas. Jonas **** all over Ibaka when Ltu met Spain.

Here is another example 1:04 Jonas goes to set a pick fakes it and runs to the basket Piston frontcourt sees him running but cant stop

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSGOEpvva5o[/youtube]

[jonny three time]

Well let's just watch how many points Val gets off PnR next year and how many he gets off Iso's. I guarantee he becomes more of an Iso player this year than he was last year. Even the last month or so of the season you could see his Iso's going up and PnR's going down compared to the early part of the year. That trend is going to continue.

[lobosloboslobos]

Well let's just watch how many points Val gets off PnR next year and how many he gets off Iso's. I guarantee he becomes more of an Iso player this year than he was last year. Even the last month or so of the season you could see his Iso's going up and PnR's going down compared to the early part of the year. That trend is going to continue.

you mean they went down from one pick'n'roll every 2 games to one every 3 games?

Jonas was a FANTASTIC pick'n'roll guy in Europe and the only reason he hasn't had major success with it here is that nobody on our team knows how to pass to a wide-open rolling 7 foot guy with his hands in the air yelling for the ball.

[Regulio]

The problem for Jonas was that he lacked a competent PnR guard all his career.
Now if he had someone like Parker as his PG it would look much different I think.
But I'd agree that he would be better with developing iso scoring. It just opens up so many possibilities to the whole team, when you have a good post scorer. And he has all the tools to become one.

I understand Kazlauskas is not happy about it, as PnR is the staple of Euro basketball, Lithuanian team is no exception. Our guards are awful at creating anything on their own, so you gotta use PnR almost every possession. Hell they even can't pass the ball at all..

Jumpers are good, but unreliable and you, as a big man, move away too far to compete for rebound in case of missing.
That's why Duncan was a much better scoring option than KG. Malone also struggled a lot when he started to brick jumpers all night long. Post scoring >>>> jumpers. For a player like JV, who loves physical contact and is quite crafty, it is a must to develop his iso post scoring skills.

[Dri3er]

Awesome mix about 2 preperation games against Belgium.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35teJwI76M[/youtube]

[FTW]

you mean they went down from one pick'n'roll every 2 games to one every 3 games?

Jonas was a FANTASTIC pick'n'roll guy in Europe and the only reason he hasn't had major success with it here is that nobody on our team knows how to pass to a wide-open rolling 7 foot guy with his hands in the air yelling for the ball.

Yes you are absolutely right, Jose Calderon is an absolutely terrible P'n'R guy.

Honestly...I don't even

If you don't realize the difference between Jonas's roll and, say, Howard/Chandler/Duncan's roll, then you're just a lost, lost soul