Officiating in the NBA

[TheDoctor]

Im not going to blame the refs when we had so many turnovers, Demar was inefficient, Amir was injured, we shot terrible from 3 (so did BKN), Jonas missed a few bunnies, etc etc.

Again, people keep bringing up the turnovers as though this is an argument killer. Of course a bunch of those can be blamed only on the Raptors. But when Ross applies perimeter pressure similar to the level Brooklyn did, he gets called for fouls and gets taken out of the game. Williams got an offensive foul call for throwing himself on the ground and holding his face when he ran into Lowry while trying to intercept a pass (applying perimeter pressure). Jonas had a turnover where he had the ball near the baseline and one of the Nets (may have been Anderson) just swiped down across his arms and knocked the ball out of his hands. Jonas had another turnover after Demar blocked Johnson's shot and he went to save the ball from going out of bounds. Garnett gave him a shove to make sure he'd go out.

Turnovers are completely related to how the game is called when one team is allowed a certain level of contact and the other team isn't.

Again, I haven't done a tally or really taken a look at how the calls went overall so I'm not taking sides. But let's not dismiss people's arguments with weak retorts like the FT attempts were even or we just had too many turnovers, as though those are somehow unrelated to bad refereeing and objective measurements of a team's performance regardless of the refs.

Absolutely this. We had careless TOs too, and the Nets are good at deflections for steals, but probably half the TOs were at least gray area and could easily be called fouls.

[Dr Comeback]

How does Toronto not have a good crowd? It's much better than Miami or Indiana that's for sure. Our crowds only get shown on NBAtv (lol) no wonder no one in the world knows except for people from toronto.

he's making it up as he goes along.

Um.. He's making it up. Toronto is known for pretty much being the rowdiest fans. They chanted B-S to calls and everything. LOUDLY.

no i agree

tim donagy is making it up as he goes along.

[Courtside]

I think the refs were equally bad to both teams in terms of affecting younger players with ticky tack fouls. Ross and Plumlee were largely negated from impacting the game because of calls that don't get made on vet players. I think it happening to Ross within minutes of the game starting was a bigger blow to Toronto's on-ball defense, though.

When you have a younger team vs a veteran team, this style of refereeing favors the vet team whether it's intentional or not. The type of calls, who they're called on and when they're called in the game are far more important than how many fouls were called on each team when the game comes to an end.

The 4 step travel by Pierce was the one that blew my mind, though. Allowing that travel and the points to count - off a dunk no less - were far more impactful to the outcome than the block/foul on Jonas or the illegal screens by KG. It was a momentum changer at a critical juncture in the 4th quarter.

Younger, less experienced teams are simply less able to fight past those sorts of WTF moments. Vets have been through it and keep playing and pounce on the younger team before they regain their composure - that's what Paul Pierce does.

If the Raptors are going to have a chance in this series, they have get their focus and just play the game well enough to win regardless of how it's called.

[superchimp]

Just really think about it for a second.


What right thinking human being would risk a 6 figure a year job, with great job security and 6 month working season.

for 5000 bucks a play.

not to mention the risk of dealing with potential members of organized crime.


only a buffoon or someone addicted to gambling would even consider that.

Not all humans are "right thinking".

The easiest way to get someone to fix a game is when they are already in debt to people who would have an interest in fixing the results. Some people are not good at risk assessment, that's why there are athletes who risk their career by doing stupid things like running dog fights. If there are people willing to risk double digit millions per year, you can certainly find people willing to risk 6 figure salaries.

If Joe average can risk losing his house to gambling debts, Joe referee can risk losing his career. A significant segment of the population is terrible at risk assessment, this goes across all demographics and income levels.

Not making any judgements on the NBA or Donaghy, just saying that not all people make rational decisions.

I do believe that, to varying levels, match fixing does occur in sports. There really is no incentive for the governing bodies of sport to find it or have it revealed and there is very much a motivation for people to participate in it. It would be naive to believe that the 1919 World Series was the only fix in North American pro sports.

[RedX]

Honestly guys — the reffing may f us over. But you know what? I'm gonna enjoy the living hell out of seeing our boys play in the playoffs.

To watch every game furious at the referees is honestly doing a disservice to yourself. We're PLAYING in the playoffs... don't forget to enjoy that

[roundhead0]

Just really think about it for a second.


What right thinking human being would risk a 6 figure a year job, with great job security and 6 month working season.

for 5000 bucks a play.

not to mention the risk of dealing with potential members of organized crime.


only a buffoon or someone addicted to gambling would even consider that.

For the same reason anyone else commits a crime: they don't think they will get caught, and no matter how much money they make people are always greedy for more.

[roundhead0]

Anyway, some of us called it before the series: that the whining about the refereeing would be unbearable before the series was over. And all of this has just been after game 1. Wait til we get the games in Brooklyn when the hometown team gets a bonus on the calls too.

[marcwagz]

Just really think about it for a second.


What right thinking human being would risk a 6 figure a year job, with great job security and 6 month working season.

for 5000 bucks a play.

not to mention the risk of dealing with potential members of organized crime.


only a buffoon or someone addicted to gambling would even consider that.

match fixing is actually very common especially in European and Asian soccer.

[roundhead0]

Well this is what happens in the NBA.

The Raptors get screwed when it really matters, calling stupid touch fouls on Ross early and then calling 0 fouls against the Nets in the 4th. But the focus gets put on Masai Ujiri getting fined 25k and the NBA can ignore the obvious BS and act as if the refereeing in game 1 was perfect. ESPN pulls a Hillary Clintonesque "What does it matter?" and goes on to say the Nets are supposed to win anyways.

Zero fouls on the Nets in the 4th quarter. When does that EVER happen?

As an aside, apparently you don't understand the context of what Hillary Clinton said. She made that statement in regards to all of the fuss about who had influence in making the list of talking points after Benghazi, which had the effect of ignoring the actual important matters.

To use that example in context, ESPN would be ignoring the Ujiri fine and talking all about the reffing.

[Mikistan]

Just really think about it for a second.


What right thinking human being would risk a 6 figure a year job, with great job security and 6 month working season.

for 5000 bucks a play.

not to mention the risk of dealing with potential members of organized crime.


only a buffoon or someone addicted to gambling would even consider that.

82 games per year
* 5000 per play
* 2-5 plays per game

= $820,000 - $2,050,000

Comon man, you're not even trying.

[xAIRNESSx]

I really don't understand the argument that since the Raptors played bad, the refs could not have done anything wrong.

[Sn0wman]

Absolutely disgusting! **** Adam silver, I hope he's not in the building tonight

[Steelo Green]

Bad fans? Right..

Durant, one of if not the most clutch player in the league said he had to win the game or the crowd would have destroyed them.

[Dr Comeback]

Just really think about it for a second.


What right thinking human being would risk a 6 figure a year job, with great job security and 6 month working season.

for 5000 bucks a play.

not to mention the risk of dealing with potential members of organized crime.


only a buffoon or someone addicted to gambling would even consider that.

82 games per year
* 5000 per play
* 2-5 plays per game

= $820,000 - $2,050,000

Comon man, you're not even trying.

1. 1 play a game, he was paid on picking against the spread. nothing else.
2. only games that he reffed, so he's looking at 425,000 a year if he fixed EVERY GAME he reffed that would obviously arise suspicion no matter so its unlikely to do it every game

refs make between 100k and 550k depending on seniority.


You really think its smart, to risk an entire careers worth of salaries, to get involved with organized crime types, risk prison time, for an amout of money you could make if you simply progressed in your career as a ref.


I'm sorry, match fixing goes on in sports, especially lower level European soccer, but in NBA/NFL/ unless you find somebody with real problem like Tim Donaghy, its too expensive and it isn't practical.



it is not reasonable to believe that NBA games are fixed.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Even KG was like, "they probably expected calls because they were playing aggressive and they were at home." Listening to Vasquez post-game, he said they knew they weren't going to get any calls. The fans fill the void.

I'd rather we not align ourselves with Donaghy in anyway, though. Or at least get a counter point from a ref that hasn't been to jail.

[tommer]

Small discrepancies can make a huge difference.

JV gets called for a moving screen early on, and he's basically so gun-shy that he's whiffing on all his screens for the rest of the game, or rolling to the basket too early to do anything useful.

KG gets called for a moving screen early on, and he just doubles down, knowing (based on his 18 years of experience) that he's likely not getting called again.

Foul count in the box score = 1-1. Sure, JV needs to get better at screening while on the other hand it'd be nice if refs called illegal screens more tightly. Either way, this is the reality, and it's not to our advantage.

[Mahoner]

In terms of getting calls (and I can't believe I'd echo his words) but Leo (and Jack actually) have said MULTIPLE times... If you want a better whistle, play CONSISTENTLY.

We all know that the Raps are a jump shooting team. And it's not just because they don't get the calls why they do that. It's the play style of the roster and it hasn't changed. DeRozan being one of the biggest culprits because even though he averages the most FT/G it's normally late in the game when he finally stops doing his ridiculous fade away jumpers. How many times have you said at your TV "go INTO the body and stop fading away!"

Either these guys don't listen or they don't learn. I know it happens where we get jobbed on some calls but yknow what? It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. And the coaches are the worst for not reinforcing the type of physical play needed. Guys like T-Ross and DD doing finger rolls at the basket instead of dunking that ball....

Play like it all the time, get better calls.

[Dr Comeback]

I'd rather we not align ourselves with Donaghy in anyway, though. Or at least get a counter point from a ref that hasn't been to jail.

seriously this is what bugs mu, Toronto looking to Tim Donaghy for comfort, connecting the raptors with him in any way just really bugs me dude is scum.

[silverhill27]

I'd rather we not align ourselves with Donaghy in anyway, though. Or at least get a counter point from a ref that hasn't been to jail.

seriously this is what bugs mu, Toronto looking to Tim Donaghy for comfort, connecting the raptors with him in any way just really bugs me dude is scum.

It's a valid point. However, as pointed out on radio, Jose Canseco and Floyd Landis were scum as well, but they were proven right in the end.

[DemarEvolution]

just curious, how much do the refs make?