With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

[maternal85]

Hypothetical ....If Suggs goes on to being the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose Type prospect And Barnes becomes a Bust (Frank Ntilikina) Type guy Would that be the worst decision by a GM in Raptors History? ....What would that do to Masai Rep? ....

For me i would be devastated....Im just hoping that doesn't happen cause it could set our franchise back so many years

it's pretty hard to see Barnes becoming a complete bust (also I find Frank Ntilikina being a weird comparison for him). His defense and playmaking will mean he'll probably at least be able to give you what Iguodala has been providing to teams in the playoffs for so many years.

Im not comparing him to Frank im saying become a Bust like him...Like he doesn't really ever make a real impact as a player while Jalen Suggs looks like the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy type guy....Im asking where would that leave us ...Cause its not like that isnt out of the realm of possibility ...There have been many guys like Barnes who got drafted who just could never put it together...

Im not hoping Barnes is a bust obviously im just asking if Suggs does become that guy while Barnes is not how would you guys be feeling....Me personally i will be pissed at Masai

How old are you ? You're being very emotional. Suggs couldn't even probably beat 35 year old Chris Paul down the court, east to west. He won't wake up and all of a sudden have this magical Derrick Rose (in his prime) athletic ability. These are nonsense ESPN talking points. You acknowledge many guys like Barnes never panned out, but won't acknowledge the same for many undersized/unathletic SG like Suggs as well ? Why ? Because ESPN told you he'd be a sure star in the NBA ? Your mind has been manipulated. I won't feel bad if Suggs ends up better, because Webster and Ujiri made a calculated decision. Their decisions was made based on research, facts, analytics, etc, not emotions. Barnes literally has every tools available for him to succeed, including physically. The ball is in his court.

[HumbleRen]

Im not comparing him to Frank im saying become a Bust like him...Like he doesn't really ever make a real impact as a player while Jalen Suggs looks like the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy type guy....Im asking where would that leave us ...Cause its not like that isnt out of the realm of possibility ...There have been many guys like Barnes who got drafted who just could never put it together...

Im not hoping Barnes is a bust obviously im just asking if Suggs does become that guy while Barnes is not how would you guys be feeling....Me personally i will be pissed at Masai

Yeah it would suck but the opposite could also happen - Suggs could play subpar and Barnes develops into Giannis like. It's all up in the air right now and I believe in our FO's scouting and judgment. If they see something in Barnes that makes him a better pick with Suggs still on the table, you can't really fault them for that because noone knows the ceiling for either at this moment and teams draft for the future potential.

Yeah i guess so i really hope that don't happen but i guess where im at right now is i can see the possibility of Barnes being a Bust and when looking at Suggs game i don't really see him being a Bust...I see Suggs even if hes not the superstar..... i see him being an impactfull player (Lowry) type guy and for Barnes there are just so many question marks that its like a scary unknown

It’s the risk Masai took to get a potential superstar.

It’s hard to find a guy at 6’8 who can defend and handle the ball like that, there was too much potential for the team to pass up on.

There’s a real possibility all he becomes is an elite role player, his offence is that bad BUT if he follows the Jaylen Brown trajectory we’re looking at a potential top 10-15 player in the league at his peak.

[NBA Sheady]

You know what I like about this kid, he's not afraid of using floaters. If he works on it, I can see that being a deadly part of his arsenal when he gets walled off the paint.

Apparently, Nick Nurse doesn't like floaters and the analytics show that PPS is very low. This may explain why we don't see FVV using one as he may have literally been asked not to.

[RapsFanInVA]

it's pretty hard to see Barnes becoming a complete bust (also I find Frank Ntilikina being a weird comparison for him). His defense and playmaking will mean he'll probably at least be able to give you what Iguodala has been providing to teams in the playoffs for so many years.

Im not comparing him to Frank im saying become a Bust like him...Like he doesn't really ever make a real impact as a player while Jalen Suggs looks like the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy type guy....Im asking where would that leave us ...Cause its not like that isnt out of the realm of possibility ...There have been many guys like Barnes who got drafted who just could never put it together...

Im not hoping Barnes is a bust obviously im just asking if Suggs does become that guy while Barnes is not how would you guys be feeling....Me personally i will be pissed at Masai

How old are you ? You're being very emotional. Suggs couldn't even probably beat 35 year old Chris Paul down the court, east to west. He won't wake up and all of a sudden have this magical Derrick Rose (in his prime) athletic ability. These are nonsense ESPN talking points. You acknowledge many guys like Barnes never panned out, but won't acknowledge the same for many undersized/unathletic SG like Suggs as well ? Why ? Because ESPN told you he'd be a sure star in the NBA ? Your mind has been manipulated. I won't feel bad if Suggs ends up better, because Webster and Ujiri made a calculated decision. Their decisions was made based on research, facts, analytics, etc, not emotions. Barnes literally has every tools available for him to succeed, including physically. The ball is in his court.

It's actually kind of fun to make wild hypothetical player comparisons and say it "could" happen. A Barnes-Ntilikina comparison? I have one for Suggs:

Jalen Suggs is Jonny Flynn 2.0! Flynn was a better college player than Suggs but also had questions about his shooting and size. Both were 33% shooters from deep in college. Suggs could end up like Jonny Flynn and be out of the league after his first contract. If that happens, Magic fans will be pissed.

[anotherhomer]

Barnes in the worst case can become a good defensive utility player, a junkyard dog type player. Not bad, but a miss if other players after him esp suggs pan out

Always a risk when betting on upside

[NBA Sheady]

So wait, combine measured his wingspan at 7'2.75 and Raptors at 7.4?

And when you watch our guys measure that wingspan his arms aren't even straight. I'm super confused over what that protocol is.

In my mind your shoulders and wrists should all be co-linear but that is not what they did. His shoulders were angled down and it honestly looked to me like his elbows were slightly bent. I seriously don't get it.

[HiJiNX]

Yeah I’ve come around. This kid is going to be a superstar. With his physical tools, work ethic, personality and IQ…no way it doesn’t happen.

Masai did it again.

Barnes has superstar written all over him after averaging 6/3/2 in the NCAA tournament. I guess you did not see the games I seen where he was shooting bricks, not rebounding the ball well, and his shot creation was terrible. He struggled playing against Franz Wagner. Granted that was a few months ago, since I am reading his shot has gotten better since then. We all need to curb our enthusiasm on this guy. He has a great personality, but he has a lot to work on. Suggs does everything better than Barnes right now, including rebounding the basketball despite being 4 inches shorter. The measurements of Barnes are great. He is a good passer with solid defense, but there was a reason he was ranked 7-10 all year in the mock drafts, until 2 months ago when he jumped to 5/6 due to his measurements. His combine measurements and testing were exceptional, but there have been countless NBA players with great measurements over the years who never put it together. I remember how Darius Miles was supposed to be the next Kevin Garnett, since he could do it all with his length and versatility. Who can forget guys like Derrick Williams, Marvin Williams, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist all selected 2nd overall due to their length and versatility. Barnes comes across nice, but he is still a raw project, and passing on Suggs was a gamble. Not saying Barnes cannot be a very good player, since it will all depend on him to put it together. He does have all the right traits though.

All those guys you mentioned aren’t really comparable to Barnes. There are few prospects that are comparable to Barnes. But running down the line:

-Darius Miles—poor work ethic…but was actually starting to turn it around in Portland before he had a devastating injury.

-Derrick Williams—played zero D and didn’t work hard once he got to the league.

-Marvin Williams—was always a mistake at number 2. He exhibited none of the traits Scottie Barnes did. He was never the athlete Barnes is.

-Michael-Kidd Gilchrist—was never that good to begin with and isn’t this kind of athlete.

Here’s my thing—there are some things that you can’t teach that support players in being awesome and Barnes has all of them plus exceptional physical tools. It’ll be almost impossible for him to not carve out an excellent career. He works hard, he’s driven to be great, he’s mentally tough, he plays better in crunch time, he can see and read what’s happening with all ten guys on offence and defence, he communicates well, and he’s absolutely comfortable being “the guy.”

None of the guys you brought up as examples have the combination of traits that Scottie Barnes seems to possess. I’m not just hyping up the guy because we drafted him. He just exhibits a lot that projects him to be great. I mean he will have to tighten his handle, expand his layup package and of course learn to shoot from range and to hit from off the dribble going both directions but those are learnable skills. Not everyone learns them but most players who want to learn those skills do learn them—where many fail is not having the instincts on to use them. With Barnes, he just has such a natural understanding of the game that once his skills catch up to everything else he’s going to be a problem. By year three we are going to start being in awe of this kid. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I stand by my prediction.

[anotherhomer]

I think Barnes will be an Evan Turner bust

Flame suit on

[NBA Sheady]

Scotty Bons climbing the Kelvin scale!

Scotty Bons with the heat check!

Scotty Bons on fire!!!

[Federalies]

Interesting stuff Re: our guy Scottie with coach David Thorpe!

Read on Twitter

[Federalies]

I guess I’m going “Back to Back”!

Read on Twitter

[Mehar]

Funny to read in this thread how some posters said Suggs was undersized, despite being 6 foot 4 without shoes. However, they have no problem with 5 foot 11 Flynn and 6 foot FVV running the point (lol). I would have drafted Suggs, and packaged Flynn and Boucher to grab another mid to late first rounder to address another need. However, I am not Masai, and only a GM in my head. In the end, what is done is done. I respect his decision. I am rooting for Scottie Barnes, and also Suggs to do well in Orlando.

I hope this team let's Barnes play through his mistakes. Let him run the Point Guard duties which he prefers. Give him 20-25 minutes. As much as I like Suggs, Barnes will not be a total bust. I always liked his defense and energy in the games I watched him. At worse, he can be a PJ Tucker guy on a championship team. Every team can use exceptional defenders like that.

[NBA Sheady]

Hypothetical ....If Suggs goes on to being the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose Type prospect And Barnes becomes a Bust (Frank Ntilikina) Type guy Would that be the worst decision by a GM in Raptors History?

Still not as bad as Arujo.

[Clutch0z24]

it's pretty hard to see Barnes becoming a complete bust (also I find Frank Ntilikina being a weird comparison for him). His defense and playmaking will mean he'll probably at least be able to give you what Iguodala has been providing to teams in the playoffs for so many years.

Im not comparing him to Frank im saying become a Bust like him...Like he doesn't really ever make a real impact as a player while Jalen Suggs looks like the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy type guy....Im asking where would that leave us ...Cause its not like that isnt out of the realm of possibility ...There have been many guys like Barnes who got drafted who just could never put it together...

Im not hoping Barnes is a bust obviously im just asking if Suggs does become that guy while Barnes is not how would you guys be feeling....Me personally i will be pissed at Masai

How old are you ? You're being very emotional. Suggs couldn't even probably beat 35 year old Chris Paul down the court, east to west. He won't wake up and all of a sudden have this magical Derrick Rose (in his prime) athletic ability. These are nonsense ESPN talking points. You acknowledge many guys like Barnes never panned out, but won't acknowledge the same for many undersized/unathletic SG like Suggs as well ? Why ? Because ESPN told you he'd be a sure star in the NBA ? Your mind has been manipulated. I won't feel bad if Suggs ends up better, because Webster and Ujiri made a calculated decision. Their decisions was made based on research, facts, analytics, etc, not emotions. Barnes literally has every tools available for him to succeed, including physically. The ball is in his court.

Well your obviously a little to emotional on your response to that question....Im not saying Barnes is going to be a Bust....Im simply asking the question cause there is a possibility of that actually happening considering Barnes offensive game is behind and lacking even compared to a Suggs who is clearly the better offensive player between the 2....

The way the NBA is offense means so much more to a players development to being a legit star and atm Suggs is More polished as a player than Barnes is on offense....Doesn't mean Barnes can't get there but imo there is more a chance Barnes becomes a Bust than Suggs becoming a bust ....

Thats why i pose the question because there is a chance Barnes offense never develops to become a legit factor in the NBA....And if you think Barnes is a better offensive player than Suggs right now than idk what to tell you besides your just biased...

I am going off what i seen so far and the risk is way higher with Barnes but ofc since hes a Raptor i hope to god he becomes Giannis 2,0 im just saying if he doesn't ever develop on the offensive end i will be pissed off if Suggs becomes a legit All star in the League

[MixxSRC]

Funny to read in this thread how some posters said Suggs was undersized, despite being 6 foot 4 without shoes. However, they have no problem with 5 foot 11 Flynn and 6 foot FVV running the point (lol). I would have drafted Suggs, and packaged Flynn and Boucher to grab another mid to late first rounder to address another need. However, I am not Masai, and only a GM in my head. In the end, what is done is done. I respect his decision. I am rooting for Scottie Barnes, and also Suggs to do well in Orlando. I hope this team let's Barnes play through his mistakes. Let him run the Point Guard duties which he prefers. Give him 20-25 minutes. As much as I like Suggs, Barnes will not be a total bust. I always liked his defense and energy in the games I watched him. At worse, he can be a PJ Tucker guy on a championship team. Every team can use exceptional defenders like that.

Suggs is still great prospect. But Scottie is a Raptor now. So his success is our success. So cheering for Scottie now

[maternal85]

Im not comparing him to Frank im saying become a Bust like him...Like he doesn't really ever make a real impact as a player while Jalen Suggs looks like the 2nd coming of a Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy type guy....Im asking where would that leave us ...Cause its not like that isnt out of the realm of possibility ...There have been many guys like Barnes who got drafted who just could never put it together...

Im not hoping Barnes is a bust obviously im just asking if Suggs does become that guy while Barnes is not how would you guys be feeling....Me personally i will be pissed at Masai

How old are you ? You're being very emotional. Suggs couldn't even probably beat 35 year old Chris Paul down the court, east to west. He won't wake up and all of a sudden have this magical Derrick Rose (in his prime) athletic ability. These are nonsense ESPN talking points. You acknowledge many guys like Barnes never panned out, but won't acknowledge the same for many undersized/unathletic SG like Suggs as well ? Why ? Because ESPN told you he'd be a sure star in the NBA ? Your mind has been manipulated. I won't feel bad if Suggs ends up better, because Webster and Ujiri made a calculated decision. Their decisions was made based on research, facts, analytics, etc, not emotions. Barnes literally has every tools available for him to succeed, including physically. The ball is in his court.

Well your obviously a little to emotional on your response to that question....Im not saying Barnes is going to be a Bust....Im simply asking the question cause there is a possibility of that actually happening considering Barnes offensive game is behind and lacking even compared to a Suggs who is clearly the better offensive player between the 2....

The way the NBA is offense means so much more to a players development to being a legit star and atm Suggs is More polished as a player than Barnes is on offense....Doesn't mean Barnes can't get there but imo there is more a chance Barnes becomes a Bust than Suggs becoming a bust ....

Thats why i pose the question because there is a chance Barnes offense never develops to become a legit factor in the NBA....And if you think Barnes is a better offensive player than Suggs right now than idk what to tell you besides your just biased...

I am going off what i seen so far and the risk is way higher with Barnes but ofc since hes a Raptor i hope to god he becomes Giannis 2,0 im just saying if he doesn't ever develop on the offensive end i will be pissed off if Suggs becomes a legit All star in the League

While you need offensive talent without a doubt, basketball is an athletic game. Unless you're a lethal scorer, which Suggs isn't, an athletic freak like Scottie can have more of an impact. A guy like Giannis (not comparing the two) can score 0 points and still dominate the game with his rebounding and defense. The narrative that Suggs is some Allen Iverson on the offensive end is comical. Is he a lethal shooter ? no. Is he an amazing athlete with a quick first step ? no. Can he play above the rim ? no. Does he have some Kyrie Irving crafty handles ? no. You think a 6'4, unathletic guard will lock down perimeter guards in the NBA ? Guys like Trae Young, Khris, Lillard, Irving, etc will eat him up alive on the offensive end. Look, whether you want to believe it or not, I feel Suggs is more of a project. His athleticism, or lack of it, will hold him back greatly. Basketball is simply an athletic game, and the NBA has athletic freaks in the league, especially at Suggs position.

I mean Tyler Hansborough, was a dominant and more complete college player, than most college players at his position. Perhaps the Clippers should have picked him over Blake ? Or OKC should have picked Tyler over Harden ? Or we should have picked Derozan over Tyler ?

[mademan]

As probably Barnes' biggest supporter pre draft on this board, i was extremely surprised he wasnt getting more love since the beginning. Raps have proven they can find rotation player, top tier role players and even stars late in the draft/undrafted. When you got a pick this high, take the prospect with the huge upside, and i dont think even Suggs' biggest fans would say he has more upside than Barnes

[StopitLeo]

Funny to read in this thread how some posters said Suggs was undersized, despite being 6 foot 4 without shoes. However, they have no problem with 5 foot 11 Flynn and 6 foot FVV running the point (lol). I would have drafted Suggs, and packaged Flynn and Boucher to grab another mid to late first rounder to address another need. However, I am not Masai, and only a GM in my head. In the end, what is done is done. I respect his decision. I am rooting for Scottie Barnes, and also Suggs to do well in Orlando. I hope this team let's Barnes play through his mistakes. Let him run the Point Guard duties which he prefers. Give him 20-25 minutes. As much as I like Suggs, Barnes will not be a total bust. I always liked his defense and energy in the games I watched him. At worse, he can be a PJ Tucker guy on a championship team. Every team can use exceptional defenders like that.

I feel Suggs is undersized because in my eyes he’s actually more of a SG guard and will have trouble scoring at that height.

[maternal85]

Funny to read in this thread how some posters said Suggs was undersized, despite being 6 foot 4 without shoes. However, they have no problem with 5 foot 11 Flynn and 6 foot FVV running the point (lol). I would have drafted Suggs, and packaged Flynn and Boucher to grab another mid to late first rounder to address another need. However, I am not Masai, and only a GM in my head. In the end, what is done is done. I respect his decision. I am rooting for Scottie Barnes, and also Suggs to do well in Orlando. I hope this team let's Barnes play through his mistakes. Let him run the Point Guard duties which he prefers. Give him 20-25 minutes. As much as I like Suggs, Barnes will not be a total bust. I always liked his defense and energy in the games I watched him. At worse, he can be a PJ Tucker guy on a championship team. Every team can use exceptional defenders like that.

Suggs would be lucky to even accomplish what FVV has accomplished in his short NBA career. A G league and NBA title, while becoming a starter on an NBA roster, and securing over 100 million dollars of guaranteed money from the Raptors. All this being undrafted, without hype/clout, and actually having to grind to earn everything he has accomplished in the NBA. Put some respect on FFV name. Back to our front office. So they should pass up on a prospect like Scottie because they have FVV running the point ? Incompetent franchise draft for positions over the best available talent/prospect.

[Chandan]

did he say Scotties thumbs are paralyzed?