Tank World Order (10.0) The Empire Strikes Back

[Spida888]

At least Fred may have increased his trade value today .

[Yeezus_]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

[Mikistan]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

He wrote exactly what he was suggesting in the last two sentences, is it that hard to read?

[Yeezus_]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

He wrote exactly what he was suggesting in the last two sentences, is it that hard to read?

Point still stands, awful take.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Nurse is on board:

[GreatWhiteStiff]

At least Fred may have increased his trade value today .

He's also increased his "I'm staying. Forever" value.

[PhilBlackson]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

When did we actually sit starters to lose on purpose in Tampa? It was after the trade deadline. We are not there yet

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. Unless what you're trying to get back in a trade has higher value than a higher pick in this draft (which I HIGHLY doubt Fred or Gary could net) then you're just wasting the opportunity. Also if it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.

Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly torpedo past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

[Mikistan]

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

He wrote exactly what he was suggesting in the last two sentences, is it that hard to read?

Point still stands, awful take.

it is an awful take that he wants to be surprised by a trade sooner rather than later due to the risk of winning games you don't want to win by waiting?

[Kreamy]

At least Fred may have increased his trade value today .

He's also increased his "I'm staying. Forever" value.

[Chandan]

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

He wrote exactly what he was suggesting in the last two sentences, is it that hard to read?

Point still stands, awful take.

its a suitable take for an awful team.

[PhilBlackson]

so what are you suggesting? They rest all their best players for the rest of the season? Rush into making trades that they don’t like just to tank?

This isn’t 2K.

He wrote exactly what he was suggesting in the last two sentences, is it that hard to read?

Point still stands, awful take.

Enlighten us all with your genius take.

[DelAbbot]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

When did we actually sit starters to lose on purpose in Tampa? It was after the trade deadline. We are not there yet

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. If it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.


Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly turpedo their past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

I would have sold asap. Management either wants to keep either one of FVV or GTJ long term or they are not liking current trade proposals. That's why Norm didn't get traded until the deadline, and Lowry didn't even get moved at the deadline. In the scenario FO are looking to trade at the deadline for best offer available, then it's possible they have a plan to really aggressively tank by "sitting out" OG and Scottie even, like sitting out Lowry and OG in Tampa.

[PhilBlackson]

When did we actually sit starters to lose on purpose in Tampa? It was after the trade deadline. We are not there yet

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. If it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.


Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly turpedo their past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

I would have sold asap. Management either wants to keep either one of FVV or GTJ long term or they are not liking current trade proposals. That's why Norm didn't get traded until the deadline, and Lowry didn't even get moved at the deadline. In the scenario FO are looking to trade at the deadline for best offer available, then it's possible they have a plan to really aggressively tank by "sitting out" OG and Scottie even, like sitting out Lowry and OG in Tampa.

But again this ain't Tampa & teams around us in the draft aren't waiting for us to make a move lol. They aren't going to just let you torpedo past them in the draft standings, they will TANK TOO! lol PLUS again we have THE weakest schedule, you may think we can just tank post deadline but it's not going to be anywhere near that easy so this next month is by far the most critical time period to our tanking efforts.

The bottomline is do you think whatever little extra asset you may or may NOT (that's a possibility) get in a Gary or Fred trade's upside will out weigh that of a higher draft pick (I find that hard to believe)?!

So if you're not holding off for something BETTER than high draft position, it's not WORTH the potential downside. Just as example, let's say Raps are saying to NYK, we want Quickley plus the better of NYK's pick & DAL's pick but they want it the opposite way. Is holding & haggling until the deadline to a get a pick closer to 20th vs 25th more valuable than being 5th in the draft vs 11th?! If not you just wasted a huge stretch of games for a minimal improvement in the trade & for what?! Just to say you did better in that trade?! Unless by some unbelievable turn of events it leads to additional top 10 pick, then the team would have little case for why they just wasted valuable time.

[canz55]

I know a lot of people feel like this season is feeling like TB 2.0 but to me the lack of decisiveness in what direction we're (tanking vs trying to win when it should so clearly be option A) is costing us our draft position as it did in the Anthony Davis draft where we never gave ourselves a shot to even draft him & because we allowed the team/coaches to just continue fighting for pointless wins took us from a draft slot where we could've drafted Lillard but ended up in a losing coin toss for the likes of journeyman Terrence Ross.

These kind of directionless Ws can REALLY cost the franchise if they don't act ASAP. If they really do stick it out right until the deadline they may completely waste the best opportunity they may have in YEARS. Praying a trade surprises us in the next week or they can really f this up.

When did we actually sit starters to lose on purpose in Tampa? It was after the trade deadline. We are not there yet

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. Unless what you're trying to get back in a trade has higher value than a higher pick in this draft (which I HIGHLY doubt Fred or Gary could net) then you're just wasting the opportunity. Also if it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.

Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly torpedo past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

Respectfully; what your points don't factor in is the possibility that the Raps actually coast (or at worse improve) by merely having any combination of Fred and/or Gary traded.

I'm talking about an addition by subtraction scenario where our bench get more minutes and overperform because they're playing for contracts.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

[PhilBlackson]

When did we actually sit starters to lose on purpose in Tampa? It was after the trade deadline. We are not there yet

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. Unless what you're trying to get back in a trade has higher value than a higher pick in this draft (which I HIGHLY doubt Fred or Gary could net) then you're just wasting the opportunity. Also if it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.

Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly torpedo past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

Respectfully; what your points don't factor in is the possibility that the Raps actually coast (or at worse improve) by merely having any combination of Fred and/or Gary traded.

I'm talking about an addition by subtraction scenario where our bench get more minutes and overperform because they're playing for contracts.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

That's one of the least likely probabilities especially when you're likely trading for multiple smaller pieces in order to get some form of draft compensation from the opposing teams lol but you can always find a way be contrarian in some capacity I guess. Not a very strong point to oppose it really lol

[Spida888]

Based on history, our FO will likely make deals close to the trade deadline. It's how they operate, trying to get the best deals, even though it may hurt the tank in this case.

They might already be in trade discussions (based on rumours), but I'm not expecting a trade before beginning of Feb.

All I can hope is that we continue to rack up the Ls and FO doesn't either stay pat or trade for short-term improvements banking on our easy remaining schedule from Feb.

[DelAbbot]

Yes I know Del...and that's exactly the problem lol that I guess you & management don't seem to be factoring in.

This next month or so of games is THE stretch that we'd want to "tank" because POST deadline we have THE EASIEST remaining schedule of ANY team in the league. Read that again if you need to lol

By trading say Gary and/or Fred, the team wouldn't even need to TRY to tank, they just wouldn't be good enough & have an easy slide down the standings. Unless what you're trying to get back in a trade has higher value than a higher pick in this draft (which I HIGHLY doubt Fred or Gary could net) then you're just wasting the opportunity. Also if it's too much for Pascal or OG to deal with now you've given them time to make that determination & the franchise the wiggle room to net your greatest return but also secure a top draft pick.

Also keep in mind the other teams in that 5-8ish range, they're not waiting on TOR to make a decision, they've made theirs so when management decides at the deadline, its time for our team to tank --- too late. They've already created a cushion in the standings between them & us and you're only kidding yourself if you think they're gonna tank any less than us & let a team like us, Utah and maybe even IND suddenly torpedo past their teams in the draft. It's too little, too late and AGAIN our by far soft spot in the schedule is POST deadline lol so those Ls won't even be an easy feat.

So like I said, this kind of indecisiveness can be the difference between picking between 5-8 and giving ourselves a shot to add A LOT more likely all-star type potentials with guys like Ausar, Whitmore, Miller, Walker.....vs we sat on our hands, team played fairly average, sputtered to the deadline (which also create the exact OPPOSITE desired response where some of the clueless fanbase demands investing MORE into this core) have the team sitting 10-12th in the draft. Due to the soft schedule may or may not find themselves in Play In territory, now you really fumbled the bag (talent) so to speak lol because you went from all-star potentials (see early AD & Dame example) to potentially leaving the season with either a prospect that basically projects to just hopefully replace what you lost in Gary (or maybe just a hair better in ie/ the Wallaces & Georges of the draft) now you're treading water going into the following year again.

This time RIGHT NOW is arguably THE most important for our drafting position than any other.

Respectfully; what your points don't factor in is the possibility that the Raps actually coast (or at worse improve) by merely having any combination of Fred and/or Gary traded.

I'm talking about an addition by subtraction scenario where our bench get more minutes and overperform because they're playing for contracts.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

That's one of the least likely probabilities especially when you're likely trading for multiple smaller pieces in order to get some form of draft compensation from the opposing teams lol but you can always find a way be contrarian in some capacity I guess. Not a very strong point to oppose it really lol

All your points are correct, the improved lottery odds from more losses exceeds the incremental value of waiting on better trade returns. But I'm just trying to understand what our FO could be thinking by not making a trade asap. Otherwise I would be driving myself crazy like you are doing right now.

[Los_29]

Respectfully; what your points don't factor in is the possibility that the Raps actually coast (or at worse improve) by merely having any combination of Fred and/or Gary traded.

I'm talking about an addition by subtraction scenario where our bench get more minutes and overperform because they're playing for contracts.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

That's one of the least likely probabilities especially when you're likely trading for multiple smaller pieces in order to get some form of draft compensation from the opposing teams lol but you can always find a way be contrarian in some capacity I guess. Not a very strong point to oppose it really lol

All your points are correct, the improved lottery odds from more losses exceeds the incremental value of waiting on better trade returns. But I'm just trying to understand what our FO could be thinking by not making a trade asap. Otherwise I would be driving myself crazy like you are doing right now.

I'd imagine the FO haven't made a move yet because they aren't shortsighted.

[Chandan]

the only solace from this win is scottie's 3 point and getting to read knicks reddit.

[Rapsin6]

My man Fred doing his job tonight and Pascal adding a rare helping hand. 4 in a row would not have been good. If Fred can keep this up, he’s my guy. I feel cheap and dirty cheering for losses.

I may have to take back the above statement. If this bum plays like last night, then he needs to go. He has one use this year and that’s to Aaron Baynes the **** out of this season. I’m gonna be pissed if we miss out on a solid opportunity to draft a high end player and push forward to get swept by Boston.