PG: Good Win

[pingpongrac]

I don't know how people expect OG to consistently take ~2 more threes per game. He is a very good spot-up shooter (especially from the corners), but he needs to have his looks practically spoonfed to him as he's not creating much good on his own. Teams aren't just going to allow an elite shooter from the corners to attempt even more C&S threes...which leads to the point that you can't just be a spot-up shooter if you want to be in the top 10-15 of the league in 3FGA.

Once you realize people think Barnes is Magic and OG is Peja with elite defense and it is Siakam and our system holding them back... things start to make more sense

Hang on. Again, to be clear, OG currently shoots 6.3 3s a game. Somehow despite the impossibility of it happening, non-Magic and non-Peja and other guys manage to find him for all those assisted spot up 3s he takes and makes. Yet you are absolutely utterly convinced that it is madness to think that he could get an extra .7 of a shot a game or - gasp - even 1.7 more a game if the team made it a priority to get him open just a little more often? What is the logic here? Other teams gladly sag off this 42% shooter at 6.3 times a game but will pull out all the stops to stop him if he takes 1 more 3 a game? How does that work?

OG is an elite shooter from the corners (51% on the season and 44% since his role increased in 19/20) and he has been a very good C&S guy in general (43% on the season and 40% since 19/20), but those numbers fall off a cliff as soon as he puts the ball on the floor (32% on the season and 32% since 19/20). There is a reason why OG has never consistently attempted ~8 threes per game and it's simply because he doesn't have the skillset for it; he doesn't have the ability to run laps on the defence and come off pindowns like Steph/Klay, he doesn't have the ball-handling or dexterity to effectively create space with a step-back like Luka/Tatum/Haliburton, he doesn't have deep range like Lillard/Trae/FVV/Maxey, etc. Those are the kind of players that attempt ~8 threes per game – and it's worthwhile to note that the majority are good at multiple things (getting open off ball, creating their own shot, deep threes, etc.) whereas OG is almost strictly a set shooter. On the flip side, OG has always been a very good three-point shooter because he generally sticks to what he does best (4.4 C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons) rather than trying to do too much (0.9 non-C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons).

It's unrealistic to think we can just get OG 2 more C&S threes per game. And anything other than a C&S three for OG is just asking for problems.

[C_Money]

This is a weird time on our forum where the number of shot attempts players are getting is heavily scrutinized after every single game.

[sidsid]

The team is getting more and more used to the speed of the offensive philosophy (the only thing that's left of the offense). Siakam had a number of quick read bailout possessions with the bench in late clock. They weren't mid rangers (takes to the basket, with attempts and kick outs), but they were in that perimeter wing attacker space.

Also nice to see him look off the Jak/Dennis duo late and audibles to working with Barnes on the strong side (they both need to keep ignoring Dennis/Jak when they initiate). They had two good possessions with the two man game. It's a good development that they're figuring out some of what works in some of these atrocious lineups.

[sidsid]

There was a CLEAR difference in how Barnes was used with that bench unit in the 4th compared to the 2nd.

Some want Barnes to just take control, but ignore that Darko was coaching Achiuwa to the top of the key making decisions while Barnes is in a shooters spot in tge 2nd Q...and lots of other games.

Today we saw them switch and the offense was much better, we didn't watch Flynn and Achiuwa run pnr after pnr while others watched.

Today, is how it should be from now on. Hopefully Darko sees the obvious.

I haven't watched this game, but Darko insisting on having Jak/Precious/Boucher being our hub decision makers while Siakam/Barnes watch them remains a top 3 mystifying coaching decision.

You're kind of limited in what you can do with Poeltl on the floor, so they use Barnes on the perimeter to pull Jak away from the paint. But it makes no sense to do this with Aichuwa and Boucher. This team's offense would look way better if they could get a 5 who could shoot. You wouldn't be forced to play Poeltl as an offensive hub .

One thing with Darko is that he seems to have a set idea of what he wants every position to be. He hasn't been very good at adjusting based on game needs.

He's locked the offense to the positions players play in instead of the talents and skillsets they have (and yes, no choice with Jak). Even when 80% of the guys on the floor are the same damn height and size. Someone needs to mess with the lineup chart and convince him that Precious is the PF and maybe we'll see Scottie hub by accident.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I can't imagine that

a) He'd kill his value which would impact his contract and money.
b) in the heat of battle, he's intentionally missing shots.

It's not that hard to imagine, he did that this summer.
*

Read on Twitter

lol yeah he wants to miss on millions of dollars, so he doesn't get traded.

If we were shopping him, he's not getting that money...and we were shopping him.

Maybe, he's playing not to get traded during the season. Hence, why he wouldn't sign with other teams. It could be him trying to control how he plays this contract out.

[Grandia]

Scottie haters were out in full force the last few days. How are you guys doing tonight?

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

[Raps in 4]

Scottie haters were out in full force the last few days. How are you guys doing tonight?

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

There are two distinct groups:

- Hardcore team treadmill supporters who want Scottie to fail so they can say "Ha! See! I told you. Tanking doesn't work!"

- Hardcore Masai haters who want to say that everything Masai has done since 2019 is a failure (Scottie currently throws a wrench in their narrative).

[Tripod]

Scottie haters were out in full force the last few days. How are you guys doing tonight?

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

There are two distinct groups:

- Hardcore team treadmill supporters who want Scottie to fail so they can say "Ha! See! I told you. Tanking doesn't work!"

- Hardcore Masai haters who want to say that everything Masai has done since 2019 is a failure (Scottie currently throws a wrench in their narrative).

Weird.

I want Barnes to succeed because he wants to play exciting, nin-selfish, team basketball.
I also don't need a full on tank because I enjoy wins vs loses
I don't hate Masai as he has give us the best decade in Raps history, but he has also made mistakes

Where do I fall?

[Duffman100]

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

There are two distinct groups:

- Hardcore team treadmill supporters who want Scottie to fail so they can say "Ha! See! I told you. Tanking doesn't work!"

- Hardcore Masai haters who want to say that everything Masai has done since 2019 is a failure (Scottie currently throws a wrench in their narrative).

Weird.

I want Barnes to succeed because he wants to play exciting, nin-selfish, team basketball.
I also don't need a full on tank because I enjoy wins vs loses
I don't hate Masai as he has give us the best decade in Raps history, but he has also made mistakes

Where do I fall?

Almost as if there is a grey area for pretty much everyone and the binary associating people to groups is just... weird.

[MiamiSPX]

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

There are two distinct groups:

- Hardcore team treadmill supporters who want Scottie to fail so they can say "Ha! See! I told you. Tanking doesn't work!"

- Hardcore Masai haters who want to say that everything Masai has done since 2019 is a failure (Scottie currently throws a wrench in their narrative).

Weird.

I want Barnes to succeed because he wants to play exciting, nin-selfish, team basketball.
I also don't need a full on tank because I enjoy wins vs loses
I don't hate Masai as he has give us the best decade in Raps history, but he has also made mistakes

Where do I fall?

I'm in the same boat. I would never want a tear-it-down to the bones tank. I can also call a spade a spade and say that Masai has made many bad moves lately. Those who would give him a lifetime contract don't realize that runs counter to the things Masai himself has said (want to be like ManU, our standards are higher, we will win, nobody cares about the title anymore, etc).

When I say I want to build around Barnes, I mean it relatively speaking. I don't mean it as "we totally have a franchise player who is going to lead us to the promised land". It's more about the fact that he is BY FAR the best young player on the team. I mean, it's not even close. So you build around that and that doesn't mean you don't keep trying to hit on another youngster, by trade or draft, who may well end up better than him.

There is a pretty good chance he doesn't end up as THAT guy but that doesn't mean you go trade him for Paul George (ya'll know who you are). Luckily, Masai agrees and is refusing to do something so short-sighted.

I also wouldn't hesitate to trade him for Luka or SGA if the opportunity presented itself. I would even give then Siakam and Dick also, as well as pretty much anyone else they want lol.

Cheer for the front of the jersey, not the back. There are certain players on the team where watching them play makes my eyes bleed but I am still cheering every time they make a basket.

[Tha Cynic]

Did not like Pascal's answer at 9:42. Writing is on the wall and he gotta go.

Watch on YouTube

"like i think he does a good job to get us to try to kinda like do some of the things he wants us to do..."

Siakam could have easily given a generic answer here but went to an obvious attempt to not promote Darko too much.

Maybe this is why Darko has clearly been watching Nurse tapes and flipping a lot of what this team is doing now back to what Nurse was doing last season lol. I really hope this isn't going to be the norm.

[YogurtProducer]

I am surprised about how anyone could be against Scottie.

I don't believe it's the tank team because SB is thriving and still continues to grow, so is it the win-now team? But SB is a significant and a winning piece of the Raptors organization.

I'm so confused. Can someone please clarify this to me so I can stop having a headache

There are two distinct groups:

- Hardcore team treadmill supporters who want Scottie to fail so they can say "Ha! See! I told you. Tanking doesn't work!"

- Hardcore Masai haters who want to say that everything Masai has done since 2019 is a failure (Scottie currently throws a wrench in their narrative).

Weird.

I want Barnes to succeed because he wants to play exciting, nin-selfish, team basketball.
I also don't need a full on tank because I enjoy wins vs loses
I don't hate Masai as he has give us the best decade in Raps history, but he has also made mistakes

Where do I fall?

You probably fall in the majority of people tbh

It is always the minority that is the loudest. And the minority of Raptor fans are those screaming on RealGM about problems that most fans do not think of / do not exist

[lobosloboslobos]

Once you realize people think Barnes is Magic and OG is Peja with elite defense and it is Siakam and our system holding them back... things start to make more sense

Hang on. Again, to be clear, OG currently shoots 6.3 3s a game. Somehow despite the impossibility of it happening, non-Magic and non-Peja and other guys manage to find him for all those assisted spot up 3s he takes and makes. Yet you are absolutely utterly convinced that it is madness to think that he could get an extra .7 of a shot a game or - gasp - even 1.7 more a game if the team made it a priority to get him open just a little more often? What is the logic here? Other teams gladly sag off this 42% shooter at 6.3 times a game but will pull out all the stops to stop him if he takes 1 more 3 a game? How does that work?

OG is an elite shooter from the corners (51% on the season and 44% since his role increased in 19/20) and he has been a very good C&S guy in general (43% on the season and 40% since 19/20), but those numbers fall off a cliff as soon as he puts the ball on the floor (32% on the season and 32% since 19/20). There is a reason why OG has never consistently attempted ~8 threes per game and it's simply because he doesn't have the skillset for it; he doesn't have the ability to run laps on the defence and come off pindowns like Steph/Klay, he doesn't have the ball-handling or dexterity to effectively create space with a step-back like Luka/Tatum/Haliburton, he doesn't have deep range like Lillard/Trae/FVV/Maxey, etc. Those are the kind of players that attempt ~8 threes per game – and it's worthwhile to note that the majority are good at multiple things (getting open off ball, creating their own shot, deep threes, etc.) whereas OG is almost strictly a set shooter. On the flip side, OG has always been a very good three-point shooter because he generally sticks to what he does best (4.4 C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons) rather than trying to do too much (0.9 non-C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons).

It's unrealistic to think we can just get OG 2 more C&S threes per game. And anything other than a C&S three for OG is just asking for problems.

Well, you keep saying that it's unrealistic for the team to get OG 2 more spot up looks a game, without explaining why that could never happen, but hey maybe you're right. I do get that he's not a guy who can create for himself and that that limits him, but i don't see why you couldn't work a little harder to play to the strengths of your most dangerous shooter. anyway, so be it, just happy that at least one guy on our team is elite from deep.

And to be clear OG Anunoby is 11th in the league in 3pt% for players taking 6+ 3s a game.

[YogurtProducer]

Hang on. Again, to be clear, OG currently shoots 6.3 3s a game. Somehow despite the impossibility of it happening, non-Magic and non-Peja and other guys manage to find him for all those assisted spot up 3s he takes and makes. Yet you are absolutely utterly convinced that it is madness to think that he could get an extra .7 of a shot a game or - gasp - even 1.7 more a game if the team made it a priority to get him open just a little more often? What is the logic here? Other teams gladly sag off this 42% shooter at 6.3 times a game but will pull out all the stops to stop him if he takes 1 more 3 a game? How does that work?

OG is an elite shooter from the corners (51% on the season and 44% since his role increased in 19/20) and he has been a very good C&S guy in general (43% on the season and 40% since 19/20), but those numbers fall off a cliff as soon as he puts the ball on the floor (32% on the season and 32% since 19/20). There is a reason why OG has never consistently attempted ~8 threes per game and it's simply because he doesn't have the skillset for it; he doesn't have the ability to run laps on the defence and come off pindowns like Steph/Klay, he doesn't have the ball-handling or dexterity to effectively create space with a step-back like Luka/Tatum/Haliburton, he doesn't have deep range like Lillard/Trae/FVV/Maxey, etc. Those are the kind of players that attempt ~8 threes per game – and it's worthwhile to note that the majority are good at multiple things (getting open off ball, creating their own shot, deep threes, etc.) whereas OG is almost strictly a set shooter. On the flip side, OG has always been a very good three-point shooter because he generally sticks to what he does best (4.4 C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons) rather than trying to do too much (0.9 non-C&S 3FGA per game in the last 5 seasons).

It's unrealistic to think we can just get OG 2 more C&S threes per game. And anything other than a C&S three for OG is just asking for problems.

Well, you keep saying that it's unrealistic for the team to get OG 2 more spot up looks a game, without explaining why that could never happen, but hey maybe you're right. I do get that he's not a guy who can create for himself and that that limits him, but i don't see why you couldn't work a little harder to play to the strengths of your most dangerous shooter. anyway, so be it, just happy that at least one guy on our team is elite from deep.

And to be clear OG Anunoby is 11th in the league in 3pt% for players taking 6+ 3s a game.

Because it is damn hard to get that many catch and shoot opportunities for anyone in the league. We already have OG on a really high catch and shoot volume and he is close to the top in terms of volume already.

2 more shots a game puts him in the 99th percentile of catch and shoot players in all of NBA history in terms of volume.

[lobosloboslobos]

Because it is damn hard to get that many catch and shoot opportunities for anyone in the league. We already have OG on a really high catch and shoot volume and he is close to the top in terms of volume already.

2 more shots a game puts him in the 99th percentile of catch and shoot players in all of NBA history in terms of volume.

well that's a good answer!

of course, being the extremist that I am I'm all for gunning for that 99th percentile, but i imagine this reflects the fact that I am fundamentally bad at analyzing basketball strategy (which is why I almost never do) for the simple reason that I have never played the game seriously. just another tv watching sucka who (usually) knows his place: in the peanut gallery cheering us and booing them

[Tha Cynic]

Yes i agree, you are consistent in your bias

Bias?

Man I love OG. How is it bias by suggesting that maybe OG is not an elite shooter who can take on elite volume, and then following that up with some stats and analysis to back it up?

Do better man.

Man the absolute irony of you telling other people to "do better" when you use surface level stats and then make assumptions that don't match the stats you post...

but I'll play your game for fun.

If you isolate for only games where OG shoots 7 or more 3PA per game

2023-2024 - so far 23 for 54 -- 42.59%
2022-2022 - 69 for 175 - 39.4%

No one is saying OG should take more pull up 3s calling his own offense. The fact that you use pull-up % as a counter argument is a red herring, maybe you don't realize how irrelevant that argument is because you take a surface level approach to understanding the statistics you post.

97.4% of his 3pt makes are assisted this year, that is 38 out of 39 3PTM so far this season.
Last season, 95.8% of OG's 3pt makes were assisted, or 138 out of 144.

You you expect any additional shots he takes will be around 25% - because what, you assume every shot he takes above 6.3 attempts per game will be pull ups I guess?

Looks like the stats show increasing his attempts still has him performing above league average 3pt shooting

The fanbase is too obsessed with guard play they don't understand that as a team you can run plays for players without the player needing to move around like Steph Curry. The same posters don't understand that simply changing Siakam from the corners back to where he was last season completely changed his entire offense. The same posters don't understand that changing Barnes from the top of the key to the corners completely neuters him on offense as he's a terrible offball player offense as he doesn't understand when and where to cut or how to get involved in the offense as the spacer who's not involved in the play. That's why he's always standing around on the Westside like Siakam does when he's not involved in the play.

In the years that the NBA has been operating in sure we have a couple of plays a game where you get OG an open look that isn't a pull up 3

[YogurtProducer]

Bias?

Man I love OG. How is it bias by suggesting that maybe OG is not an elite shooter who can take on elite volume, and then following that up with some stats and analysis to back it up?

Do better man.

Man the absolute irony of you telling other people to "do better" when you use surface level stats and then make assumptions that don't match the stats you post...

but I'll play your game for fun.

If you isolate for only games where OG shoots 7 or more 3PA per game

2023-2024 - so far 23 for 54 -- 42.59%
2022-2022 - 69 for 175 - 39.4%

No one is saying OG should take more pull up 3s calling his own offense. The fact that you use pull-up % as a counter argument is a red herring, maybe you don't realize how irrelevant that argument is because you take a surface level approach to understanding the statistics you post.

97.4% of his 3pt makes are assisted this year, that is 38 out of 39 3PTM so far this season.
Last season, 95.8% of OG's 3pt makes were assisted, or 138 out of 144.

You you expect any additional shots he takes will be around 25% - because what, you assume every shot he takes above 6.3 attempts per game will be pull ups I guess?

Looks like the stats show increasing his attempts still has him performing above league average 3pt shooting

The fanbase is too obsessed with guard play they don't understand that as a team you can run plays for players without the player needing to move around like Steph Curry. The same posters don't understand that simply changing Siakam from the corners back to where he was last season completely changed his entire offense. The same posters don't understand that changing Barnes from the top of the key to the corners completely neuters him on offense as he's a terrible offball player offense as he doesn't understand when and where to cut.

In the years that the NBA has been operating in sure we have a couple of plays a game where you get OG an open look that isn't a pull up 3

Yeah sure - we can just get OG into the 99th percentile of all-time in terms of volume of catch and shoot 3's. That should be super easy to do, wont it?

[Tha Cynic]

Man the absolute irony of you telling other people to "do better" when you use surface level stats and then make assumptions that don't match the stats you post...

but I'll play your game for fun.

If you isolate for only games where OG shoots 7 or more 3PA per game

2023-2024 - so far 23 for 54 -- 42.59%
2022-2022 - 69 for 175 - 39.4%

No one is saying OG should take more pull up 3s calling his own offense. The fact that you use pull-up % as a counter argument is a red herring, maybe you don't realize how irrelevant that argument is because you take a surface level approach to understanding the statistics you post.

97.4% of his 3pt makes are assisted this year, that is 38 out of 39 3PTM so far this season.
Last season, 95.8% of OG's 3pt makes were assisted, or 138 out of 144.

You you expect any additional shots he takes will be around 25% - because what, you assume every shot he takes above 6.3 attempts per game will be pull ups I guess?

Looks like the stats show increasing his attempts still has him performing above league average 3pt shooting

The fanbase is too obsessed with guard play they don't understand that as a team you can run plays for players without the player needing to move around like Steph Curry. The same posters don't understand that simply changing Siakam from the corners back to where he was last season completely changed his entire offense. The same posters don't understand that changing Barnes from the top of the key to the corners completely neuters him on offense as he's a terrible offball player offense as he doesn't understand when and where to cut.

In the years that the NBA has been operating in sure we have a couple of plays a game where you get OG an open look that isn't a pull up 3

Yeah sure - we can just get OG into the 99th percentile of all-time in terms of volume of catch and shoot 3's. That should be super easy to do, wont it?

How many times do we run plays for OG in a game for a 3? It's not as difficult as you make it seem to increase the frequency since we barely do it intentionally

We lived through Gradey Dick bricking for games. We can try with OG who is a better shooter right now..

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

OG's getting paid too much to be part of the future either way. Don't let his age fool you.

[YogurtProducer]

The fanbase is too obsessed with guard play they don't understand that as a team you can run plays for players without the player needing to move around like Steph Curry. The same posters don't understand that simply changing Siakam from the corners back to where he was last season completely changed his entire offense. The same posters don't understand that changing Barnes from the top of the key to the corners completely neuters him on offense as he's a terrible offball player offense as he doesn't understand when and where to cut.

In the years that the NBA has been operating in sure we have a couple of plays a game where you get OG an open look that isn't a pull up 3

Yeah sure - we can just get OG into the 99th percentile of all-time in terms of volume of catch and shoot 3's. That should be super easy to do, wont it?

How many times do we run plays for OG in a game for a 3? It's not as difficult as you make it seem to increase the frequency since we barely do it intentionally

We lived through Gradey Dick bricking for games. We can try with OG who is a better shooter right now..

We already do run plays for OG. He is literally top 15 in terms of Catch and shoot volume in the entire NBA. Increasing him by 2 shots would put him into the 99% percentile of attempts in NBA history.

It is crazy to suggest he can take on that kind of workload and maintain his efficiency.