Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[Thaddy]

RJ and IQ aren't a fair deal for AD and it ruins our back court. There's no combo that makes sense.

We know how bad we need Poeltl. AD won't last very long as a C, he isn't built for it.

Poeltl / AD / Barnes / Ingram / Shead

That line up could potentially work but we'd be thin depth wise with no exceptional shooter at either guard position.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I think there is great benefit in getting out of some of the recent deals IQ and Poeltl. Without moving those guys, nothing makes sense. What I mean is yesterday I watched Darko say we are in year 2 of a rebuild and are still learning a lot of info about our guys. But so what? Don’t we have more info on those guys than any other team in the league? Are we playing them to learn more, or just in the hopes and dreams they change or become better or good? Because I don’t see the room for much flexibility. Gradey and JaKobe will never again have the value they were drafted with. They won’t get us anything, they won’t excite anyone and they won’t help us win on the court. CMB may have some value still. Otherwise the guys tanked with are all committed to. We’ve seen this team lose its mojo, no one is asking for apology threads, and we put that on the loss of RJ. Well, this team goes all in financially to keep RJ or he’s been the guy the front office view in the SL as expendable based on the fact they they financially committed to the other starters and reportedly have been trying to trade him for a year.

We basically are learning about a roster we’ve already committed to. And maybe it would have worked if Poeltl wasn’t breaking down with a back injury and IQ was a legit point guard. The way we play Quickley, we don’t get a point guard or his shooting. We lose twice to fit him with RJ. I have no issue being rid of Gradey or JaKobe, I just don’t know that they get us anything or have any value. We really pussyfooted and mid walked our way to wasting all the years post championship. This team as currently built for the future is this roster sans RJ - that’s not good enough and is worthwhile getting off the additional years owed to Poeltl and IQ.

Hollinger and Duncan had a pod recently and they said basically we overpay everyone and, it should be no shock that there a cost for that. In this era, more than ever. Where going to be facing the same financial reality of the contenders without the success and the overall health of the market can’t take it. It’s all ready softening from last year, more noticeable empty seats, and we’re supposed to be going the other way. Our def to start the year and how we played was that bad, we tightened up - but we were not as good as we looked when we went on that run. We don’t have the C depth to have Jacob already on load management, and we don’t have a guard to get IQ and BI and the offense into their action if we play IQ at the point.

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/a99aBwLBdq

[VanWest82]

I think it's valuable to look at how contracts line up in terms of years to get an idea of how FO likely sees it.

Spoiler:

First thing that jumps out to me is we have an obvious off ramp after 27. RJ will be UFA and BI has PO and will want an extension. Both those guys could be potential trade candidates Feb 2027, or maybe we re-sign one and trade the other. We'll also have to make decisions on Gradey, Shead, and JKW that summer if we haven't already.

Next are the IQ and Poeltl contracts. Fans like to throw them into trades. These players are not getting traded. They have deeply negative value contracts, and no team is going to take them without compensation which doesn't make sense from our standpoint. We'd presumably sooner ride them out and rebuild.

Scottie is a Raptor until he asks out or we rebuild, but we might find that summer of 27 is the first trigger point given the way contracts line up. Expecting big trades this year in season is likely just setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Tha Cynic]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

[sidsid]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

It makes a lot more sense in terms of playoff fits to move RJ over IQ, but the contracts lining up could push them that way. That being said, KD was in the same contract term situation and the rumours were still centered around RJ, even though IQ was later added to the list. Regardless, the Mavs would pick which contract they want out of the 2 and it's unlikely to be a deal breaker if the Raps really want it (the futures are likely red lines).

RJ being a valuable expiring to trade next year if he isn't worked into a trade this year would lean me in that direction. Easier to work the roster with that option than if you can't find the right deal with IQ's longer contract.

I don't think this will lead to anything, but AD, like KD, would be the least damaging type of trade to our future, and opens up a lot of options to recoup and/or reset in the second year if things don't work out this year.

[Thaddy]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

It makes a lot more sense in terms of playoff fits to move RJ over IQ, but the contracts lining up could push them that way. That being said, KD was in the same contract term situation and the rumours were still centered around RJ, even though IQ was later added to the list. Regardless, the Mavs would pick which contract they want out of the 2 and it's unlikely to be a deal breaker if the Raps really want it (the futures are likely red lines).

RJ being a valuable expiring to trade next year if he isn't worked into a trade this year would lean me in that direction. Easier to work the roster with that option than if you can't find the right deal with IQ's longer contract.

I don't think this will lead to anything, but AD, like KD, would be the least damaging type of trade to our future, and opens up a lot of options to recoup and/or reset in the second year if things don't work out this year.

RJ back on a discounted deal is going to give us more value than AD riding the bench with injuries. I don't think AD lasts more than 2 more years in the league. He's perpetually injured and is Embiid level in that regard.

We should be looking to move RJ for picks that set up a good trade in the future. A three team deal that sends us Gafford, salary, and 2 picks. Mavs send Washington, Gafford, and a first. Then a third team gives up a pick and salary for Washington.

That's the trade I would go for. We don't need AD, we're already overloaded with guards and the salaries would be tilted heavily towards our starters and our forwards while our guard depth would be in limbo for another half decade.

Gafford makes sense if we get picks back with him for RJ.

AD doesn't make sense in any trade scenario. We need to give up at least two of IQ, RJ, and Poeltl. It either guts our guard or big rotation.

[Indeed]

Here's my take on trading RJ vs. IQ:

I think the Raptors struggle a lot more without RJ.

RJ's replacement player (Walter/ Dick) leaves us in a much worse position than Shead taking over for IQ. In fact, I don't think we see all that big of a drop off overall if Shead takes over for IQ. I think long term the team would actually be better with Shead getting those development minutes.

At the end of the day, it seems RJ's impact on winning > IQ's impact on winning.

This sounds more like we just need competent backup wings and our young players haven’t lived up to expectations this season. This is kind of the same issue we had with FVV as starter for his last few seasons with no competent backup and RJ isn’t anywhere close in terms of analytics. RJ is going to need a raise and he isn’t going to be worth it.

At this stage this team needs to make a big deal and if you think that you can keep AD relatively healthy, that’s a no-brainer of a move. Poeltl and RJ are easily expendable for AD. Without IQ this team would have basically no 3 point shooting.

AD doesn’t have to do much guarding in the east and should denominate his counterparts easily. This isn’t the West. I would take the gamble and hope he shapes up. Again, a lot of this will depend on how much you understand the player on a personality level and how many red flags he has.

Not even basically on the bolded, it's literal.

IQ is quite literally the only Raptors rotation player who shoots the 3 both efficiently, and at a high volume. And he's the starting PG. A lot of Raptors fans don't realize how much less sense it would make to subtract IQ from this team's build than RJ.

80% of Quickley's 3 point shots are assisted.
Please don't act like 3 point shooting is that important, otherwise, our offense wouldn't be suddenly at the bottom of the league.
Our major need is someone who can turn the corner to shift the defense, so that we get open shot. Quickley is not someone who can provide that consistently, which is why he is overpaid. He is now being used as a benchmark for agents reported by Bobby Mark, which means it is an extremely bad contract, so agents can ask for more using his production.

[LoveMyRaps]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

Yeah, I've warmed up to the idea of trading for AD. Mainly because it'd involve getting rid of Poeltl.

[MEDIC]

Here's my take on trading RJ vs. IQ:

I think the Raptors struggle a lot more without RJ.

RJ's replacement player (Walter/ Dick) leaves us in a much worse position than Shead taking over for IQ. In fact, I don't think we see all that big of a drop off overall if Shead takes over for IQ. I think long term the team would actually be better with Shead getting those development minutes.

At the end of the day, it seems RJ's impact on winning > IQ's impact on winning.

This sounds more like we just need competent backup wings and our young players haven’t lived up to expectations this season. This is kind of the same issue we had with FVV as starter for his last few seasons with no competent backup and RJ isn’t anywhere close in terms of analytics. RJ is going to need a raise and he isn’t going to be worth it.

At this stage this team needs to make a big deal and if you think that you can keep AD relatively healthy, that’s a no-brainer of a move. Poeltl and RJ are easily expendable for AD. Without IQ this team would have basically no 3 point shooting.

AD doesn’t have to do much guarding in the east and should denominate his counterparts easily. This isn’t the West. I would take the gamble and hope he shapes up. Again, a lot of this will depend on how much you understand the player on a personality level and how many red flags he has.

Not even basically on the bolded, it's literal.

IQ is quite literally the only Raptors rotation player who shoots the 3 both efficiently, and at a high volume. And he's the starting PG. A lot of Raptors fans don't realize how much less sense it would make to subtract IQ from this team's build than RJ.

You don't hold.on to a PG just because he can shoot 3's........unless he is Curry or Dame.

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think IQ is as valuable as some posters think.

[MEDIC]

This sounds more like we just need competent backup wings and our young players haven’t lived up to expectations this season. This is kind of the same issue we had with FVV as starter for his last few seasons with no competent backup and RJ isn’t anywhere close in terms of analytics. RJ is going to need a raise and he isn’t going to be worth it.

At this stage this team needs to make a big deal and if you think that you can keep AD relatively healthy, that’s a no-brainer of a move. Poeltl and RJ are easily expendable for AD. Without IQ this team would have basically no 3 point shooting.

AD doesn’t have to do much guarding in the east and should denominate his counterparts easily. This isn’t the West. I would take the gamble and hope he shapes up. Again, a lot of this will depend on how much you understand the player on a personality level and how many red flags he has.

Not even basically on the bolded, it's literal.

IQ is quite literally the only Raptors rotation player who shoots the 3 both efficiently, and at a high volume. And he's the starting PG. A lot of Raptors fans don't realize how much less sense it would make to subtract IQ from this team's build than RJ.

80% of Quickley's 3 point shots are assisted.
Please don't act like 3 point shooting is that important, otherwise, our offense wouldn't be suddenly at the bottom of the league.
Our major need is someone who can turn the corner to shift the defense, so that we get open shot. Quickley is not someone who can provide that consistently, which is why he is overpaid. He is now being used as a benchmark for agents reported by Bobby Mark, which means it is an extremely bad contract, so agents can ask for more using his production.

100%

[LoveMyRaps]

With Kyrie slated to return soon, would y'all trade Quickley + Ochai for him?

[OhCanada]

If the Mavs are making a deal and Toronto is involved I want Ryan Nembhard.

Still can’t believe he didn’t end up in Toronto.

Toronto passed up Queen and Nembhard because of defensive concerns. Meanwhile our defense cant even guard a pick and roll when Poeltl isnt 100%.

Masai and Bobby historical have not gone for the most talented players. They put character traits before talent.

I think short term always looks like we got the wrong guy, but we draft a lot of two way players at the end once they develop 3-4 years later. OG, Norm, Jakob, Fred, Shead, Pascal, Scottie. I think in 2-3 years we will see Walter, CMB also become those type of two way players. So not necessarily a bad thing, but in year one our rookies won’t be making all rookie team most likely.

Yeah CMB is defenitely not a bad pick.

[Thaddy]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

Yeah, I've warmed up to the idea of trading for AD. Mainly because it'd involve getting rid of Poeltl.

Poeltl and IQs contracts could still be good. Trading them for AD makes sense from the numbers point of view and we'd get the better player.

The part that doesn't make sense is where he'd be used. Do we put him at C and get him injured again or are we looking for Gafford back there?

Gafford
AD
Ingram
Barnes?
RJ?

I'm not sure what that would look like

[MEDIC]

With Kyrie slated to return soon, would y'all trade Quickley + Ochai for him?

I've thought about that one. I would rather have Kyrie than AD. His price tag is a lot better& I like his game.

[dublo7]

AD's nickname is street clothes for a reason. I want no part of him here... he can screw up another East team. And if we can help them do it, sure....!
what Im scared of is the NBA moving things around for Dallas after the magic that got Doncic to the Lakers.

[TGM]

I agree haven't healthy players is important, but our issue right now, is that the talent level doesn't cut it. For those that hated the Ingram trade, if you look back now it was worth the injury risk cause he brings a complete new dimension to the game. When Ingram hit that game winner a few weeks back, that was the first time I think anyone has felt comfortable with someone taking the game winning shot. That's the kind of talent offensively and defensively that you need to compete at the highest level.

When guys like AD come to market you need to really consider seriously!

[RoteSchroder]

I agree haven't healthy players is important, but our issue right now, is that the talent level doesn't cut it. For those that hated the Ingram trade, if you look back now it was worth the injury risk cause he brings a complete new dimension to the game. When Ingram hit that game winner a few weeks back, that was the first time I think anyone has felt comfortable with someone taking the game winning shot. That's the kind of talent offensively and defensively that you need to compete at the highest level.

When guys like AD come to market you need to really consider seriously!

One of our main problems is depth. We always drop off when one of our starters get injured.

We didn't give up anything for Ingram. We'd have to give up two starters for AD.

Getting a back-up defensive C and wing 6th man would improve the team a lot more than AD.

[LoveMyRaps]

With Kyrie slated to return soon, would y'all trade Quickley + Ochai for him?

I've thought about that one. I would rather have Kyrie than AD. His price tag is a lot better& I like his game.

I'd rather have Kyrie as well. Gives us an alpha scorer. One of the best shot creators and makers in the league.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

With Kyrie slated to return soon, would y'all trade Quickley + Ochai for him?

I've thought about that one. I would rather have Kyrie than AD. His price tag is a lot better& I like his game.

I'd rather have Kyrie as well. Gives us an alpha scorer. One of the best shot creators and makers in the league.

he's 33 so there's that

[JB7]

So a few things to consider

1) Anthony Davis in the West is very different from Anthony Davis in the East. I just don’t think the wear and tear against bigs in the East will be as bad and this is a move that would help his end of career.

2) would you rather have an injured Poeltl or Davis? If you trust your history with injured players, this is an easy decision.

3) RJ Barrett’s expiring contract becomes a big asset after this season. Typically the Raptors like to replace expiring players with other players they have interest in. I don’t think they will re-sign him, and they will look to replace his salary with a player or two. I can see them use his salary for a Davis trade. They know they have a lot of difficulty signing players in free agency

4) Davis’ contract runs the exact same length as the Ingram contract and has the exact same player option. Those both become very valuable expiring contracts at around the same time and both are players who a contender may be interested in if things fail - especially in their last year.

5) we haven’t developed any stars from the draft recently. Dick, and Walter look like replaceable players and CMB is still very early but there’s nothing there that wows you.

I think there’s a very good chance Raptors are legitimately interested. It’s a two year gamble that if it works can make this team a very good team.

Yeah, I've warmed up to the idea of trading for AD. Mainly because it'd involve getting rid of Poeltl.

Poeltl and IQs contracts could still be good. Trading them for AD makes sense from the numbers point of view and we'd get the better player.

The part that doesn't make sense is where he'd be used. Do we put him at C and get him injured again or are we looking for Gafford back there?

Gafford
AD
Ingram
Barnes?
RJ?

I'm not sure what that would look like

I don't get all of the panic over Yak's injury. I get it that it is a critical role on the team, and it is a back injury. But it seems like something that could probably be managed. Also, he just turned 30, and has generally averaged 70 games per season, vs Davis who is turning 33 soon, and has averaged closer to like 55 games per season over the last few seasons.

Giving up two starters to bring in an injury prone, highly paid star, seems like a team asking for disaster. Contracts like that can be crippling for a franchise, just look at the Sixers, with two of those deals on their books.

As much as people like to bitch about the salaries the Raps starters are getting paid, at least they are performing well on those deals. I think RJ will probably get an extension similar to IQ's. Not a massive overpayment. How is BI going to ask for more money than Barnes? He could get it from one of the bottom dwelling teams, but does he really want to be in that situation for a few extra dollars? It is still a core with ages ranging from 24 to 28, which is still decently young.

For the bench players, which are all rookies on rookie contracts, there isn't a huge investment in them. Guys that don't perform are not going to get extensions. The team needs to be tight on the next deals offered out, because their big investments are in the starters. But JKW & CMB seem to be guys that will stick around, because they still have many years left on rookie deals, and both can play D.