Official Bargnani Discussion Thread

[uniballer]

-= original quote snipped =-



Boy, you really showed him up there. He's definitely got a few years left in his career so there's no way that somebody could make this claim without first knowing how he's going to rebound for the rest of his career. Good call.

Wait, couldn't it just be assumed that he obviously talking about Bargnani's career to date? Naw.....

THATS THE POINT IM MAKING... His carrer to date is just over one season...

we all know hes a bad rebounder but to use his rookie/sophmore ## to make claims is BS

p.s. hater you could make a decent rebuttle to my statement without looking like an arrogant pompus ass. maybe you should try it sometime in the future??

NAW.........

[RapsBulls4evr]

-= original quote snipped =-



Sure, I agree with you but that might be entirely because you're an Arsenal supporter.

Lol, Arsenal still leads the EPL so far.

[elmer_yuck]

Here's what I don't get.
How long does it take to learn to be aggressive
and work hard. Make an effort to actually go get the ball.
That doesn't even require basketball IQ. Just energy and
effort. If he can't learn that, then something is really
wrong with him.

[TheDoctor]

So especially with the talent pool so young and undeveloped come draft time, I stress physical, observable talent more than the other factors which tend to be those which cause most late inflations. Sometimes, and in this case I would say a Tyrus Thomas does fit the bill, they will coincide with an obviously exceptional physical talent, but in most cases, imo, those late bloomers are guys like Wally and Ammo and to a lesser degree, Deron vs. Paul.

Deron passed Paul because of three reasons - NCAA run, and a great workout program that got his body to where it needed to be, and height.

Paul was unbelieveable in that loss to WVA, and while I was very much for drafting him before that, that game completely sold me. He had a couple of teammates step up, but his big man was 6'8" when stretching Eric Williams, and most of the other guards on the team were short too... while Mike Gansey played absolutely out of his mind (and was taller than said guards), and Pittsnogle made some big shots.

Now I liked Deron more than Harry did, and feel good about that one... but I still liked Paul a considerable amount more. And Deron and Sloan fit together beautifully and make each other look even better. Paul wouldn't have fit as well, IMO.

But now a healthy Paul is playing amazing, and he's still quite young for a true PG to be playing at this kind of level.

Now I just wish they could upgrade the supporting cast, because his current one won't do it in the west.

[Yosemite Dan]

Some people just DO NOT like Andrea's game which is understandable, and would rather have LMA, Roy, Gay, etc... which we understand. But have any of those guys been asked to completely change their game?

That statement may be the predicament we face with Bargs in a nutshell. If the team wants Bargs to completely change his game then it sounds like they didn't like his game in the 1st place. So why, in the name of everything that is holy, would the Raps waste thier #1 pick on someone whose obvious skills didn't fit what they wanted for the team and more importantly why did they, in the name of everything that is sacred, think that he would become the player that they wanted when they saw no evidence of him showing any of those skills his entire career up to that point.

What draft pick of any generation was drafted and then asked to completely change thier game. What is the point of taking him. It's akin to drafting Oden and trying to make him into a SG and telling everybody, "Give him 5 years he'll learn to dribble." If you want a SG then draft a damn SG, not Oden. It wasn't like Bargs was the consensus #1 pick and had to be picked because he was head and shoulders above everyone else or even considered the BPA. It's like forcing a square peg into a round hole. In aall seriousness you have unintentionally convinced me this was a wasted pick because at best Bargs is a Van Horn type which is the last thing this team needs to succeed.

BC isn't an idiot for drafting bargs but is an idiot in letting Gheridini, who no doubt was pushing Bargs hard, convince him to take him. Especially when Gheridini was in Europe and had no clue what type of player it takes to succeed in the NBA. In fact for someone who has been touted for so long, Gheridini hasn't done much of nothing from what I can see, much like his prized Italian protege.

[Cyrus]

-= original quote snipped =-



The issue us not his record shooting 3's, but the fixation with his deficiencies, where certain agenda-driven posters harp and harp and harp, day in, day out.

Agenda driving posters? Let see...

Gay average 19-5
Dagger Response: Yeah but how many games are they winning?
(Total disregard for the fact that Bosh didn't win nothing for 3 years)

Aldridge average 19-9 leading a 22-13 Blazers team.
Dagger Response: Yeah They won even the 3 games he was injured
(Total disregard for the fact that the Hornets were 6-0 without Chris Paul when he went out last year)

Bargs average 9-3 on the season shooting 20% in december and about to become the worst defensive 7footer ever.
Dagger Response: His talent his obvious, give him time, stop focusing on his negatives, look he can shoot 3s

Clearly Dagger does not have any agenda unlike other people here, he is just an objective observer....

LOL That was gold Bro...

I should ban Dagger for being such a sucka! LOL

[PharoaheMonch]

[quote="Yosemite Dan"]-= original quote snipped =-



That statement may be the predicament we face with Bargs in a nutshell. If the team wants Bargs to completely change his game then it sounds like they didn't like his game in the 1st place. So why, in the name of everything that is holy, would the Raps waste thier #1 pick on someone whose obvious skills didn't fit what they wanted for the team and more importantly why did they, in the name of everything that is sacred, think that he would become the player that they wanted when they saw no evidence of him showing any of those skills his entire career up to that point.

What draft pick of any generation was drafted and then asked to completely change thier game. What is the point of taking him. It's akin to drafting Oden and trying to make him into a SG and telling everybody, "Give him 5 years he'll learn to dribble." If you want a SG then draft a damn SG, not Oden. It wasn't like Bargs was the consensus #1 pick and had to be picked because he was head and shoulders above everyone else or even considered the BPA. It's like forcing a square peg into a round hole. In aall seriousness you have unintentionally convinced me this was a wasted pick because at best Bargs is a Van Horn type which is the last thing this team needs to succeed.

BC isn't an idiot for drafting bargs but is an idiot in letting Gheridini, who no doubt was pushing Bargs hard, convince him to take him. Especially when Gheridini was in Europe and had no clue what type of player it takes to succeed in the NBA. In fact for someone who has been touted for so long, Gheridini hasn't done much of nothing from what I can see, much like his prized Italian protege.[/quote]

I wonder when the media will start questioning the decision.

[Harry Palmer]

Let's not jump the gun and assume MG pushed Bargs on BC. IF anything I'd say BC had Bargs in mind before he even brought MG on board.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with his rep, if it doesn't significantly improve. I think he has made errors before, but been able to rectify them, but I don't know if there's a way of rectifying a top pick. In any event, the mentality that he could do no wrong was never wise, and always countered by history. Yes, he's very, very good at what he does. One of the best. But he's not perfect, had no experience with a top pick, and talent eval has never been his best attribute anyways. He's much better at building an organization, making moves, and using the excellent people he brings in to the best of their abilities.

IOW, I don't think he was in his element being given a top pick while also being brand new to an organization. I think as time goes on he will build the organization better, and then be able to utilize the whole more the way he did in Phoenix, rather than leading from the front the way he did with Bargs.

I still am not sure he's the guy to build a legit championship contender, but in terms of making us a very good, very entertaining team backed by a great and smoothly run organization, I can't think of many better. You don't get mulligans for top overall picks, and if Bargs does prove to be much less than Gay or LA or whatever, that's something we will never get back, but the guy IS very good at what he does, and he'll make many more good moves than bad, imo.

[kingr]

Now I just wish they could upgrade the supporting cast, because his current one won't do it in the west.

You're telling me.. Even in video games (nba2k8), once Chris Paul goes to the bench. I get destroyed.

[bargs]

WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED COLANGELO DELARED THAT: " he is (andrea) a PROJECT ...we'll evaluate HIM after 4/5 years " period!!.

plus the draft was very poor...rudy gay isn't a FORCE, lamarcus is playing 50% and plus minutes more than andrea.

i'm concerned only about 2 things:

1) FOULS PRONE : bargnani hasn't realized how he's STUPID!!...i've listen him in many interviews and every time he just answer the questions about his fouls like that: " i'm not foul prone, i don't have any problem with fouls committed" LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ..this's a stupid GUY who doesn't recognize his LIMITS!!!

if you took 3 fouls in 10 minutes, man!!...it's OBVIOUS that you're going to be benched 25 and plus minutes!!...

2) raptors coaching staff: they aren't able to IMPROVE his inside game and his fundamentals...and that's amazing considering the NBA STANDARDS, every team has individual STAFF for developing players attributes ...i don't know why the raps didn't hire a personal trainer like "oakley ".

euro PLAYERS have good court vision and first pass mentality, but they generally lack of "aggressiveness / confidence " ...if the raps don't work on bargnani's development it's better to organize a trade in order to prevent that his trade value becomes ZERO

[Komodo]

WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED COLANGELO DELARED THAT: " he is (andrea) a PROJECT ...we'll evaluate HIM after 4/5 years " period!!.

While BC did state Bargnani was a project, there was no mention of a 4-5 year waiting period for him to develop. That statement is recent.

[5DOM]

we need a coach who can utilize both bosh and bargs. having no plays really hurts bargs AND the team

[raptorscam]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but Detroit blew the Darko pick in a huge way and were fine for it. Even if Bargs was a mistake (I'm still holding out hope though) it isn't the end of the world. I trust that BC can still build a good team in spite of it.

Oviously blowing the top pick is a big, big mistake and Toronto doesn't have the foundation Detroit had, but I cringe at the fact that any of this team's woes going forward are going to be blamed on that pick...even if Bargnani turns out to be Vlad Radmanovic that doesn't mean that the Raptors have to be doomed for failure. People need to get over it rather than spend hours and hours patting themselves on the back about how they "knew" the Raps should have taken Roy or LMA or Gay. If you made that call, congratulations, clearly you should be running this team. Now move on to the next issue...

[Yosemite Dan]

Based on BC's drafting history with the Suns, he always favoured the athletic big man a la Amare and Marion so at the time I was sure that he was going to go with Aldridge and my immediate 1st thoughts when he was going Bargs' way was Gheridini's influence. Sure Aldridge was a Bosh type player but initially he was not considered any worse a fit than Bargs on the team. At least he could rebound where Bargs talents never indicated he could be an effective Centre.

It's a stretch not to think that Gheridini, who wanted a Euro type team, couldn't resist playing up Bargs' big time and putting Italy on the NBA map by making him the #1 pick and getting the best of both worlds. It could have been worse, imagine if had Toronto ended up with the #5 pick Gheridini probably would have tried convincing BC to trade an asset to move up in the draft. We could have paid a higher price for this guy then we already have.

[The_Hater]

I will not argue that he is not one of the bet but to say he is the best is ignoring the schedule to date is it not?

I don't get that? New Orleans has played a tougher schedule than Phoenix, Jersey and San Antonio but not quite as tough as Detroit or Utah.

What does this prove either way?

[Gods Eye]

When you have Bosh on the court, how do you expect Bargnani to be posting up other players?

His rebounding can be improved.

But the Raptors should really start running plays for Bargnani (eg. using Bosh to set picks and he can either shoot or pass it back to Bosh).

[HiJiNX]

Let's not jump the gun and assume MG pushed Bargs on BC. IF anything I'd say BC had Bargs in mind before he even brought MG on board.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with his rep, if it doesn't significantly improve. I think he has made errors before, but been able to rectify them, but I don't know if there's a way of rectifying a top pick. In any event, the mentality that he could do no wrong was never wise, and always countered by history. Yes, he's very, very good at what he does. One of the best. But he's not perfect, had no experience with a top pick, and talent eval has never been his best attribute anyways. He's much better at building an organization, making moves, and using the excellent people he brings in to the best of their abilities.

IOW, I don't think he was in his element being given a top pick while also being brand new to an organization. I think as time goes on he will build the organization better, and then be able to utilize the whole more the way he did in Phoenix, rather than leading from the front the way he did with Bargs.

I still am not sure he's the guy to build a legit championship contender, but in terms of making us a very good, very entertaining team backed by a great and smoothly run organization, I can't think of many better. You don't get mulligans for top overall picks, and if Bargs does prove to be much less than Gay or LA or whatever, that's something we will never get back, but the guy IS very good at what he does, and he'll make many more good moves than bad, imo.

I agree with everything in this post.

[Komodo]

Next summer will be very interesting. With our expiring contracts, 1st rounder, and maybe a young player.. we could land a very good player. In two years, I think we are going to see a radically different team.

[reck0n3r]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but Detroit blew the Darko pick in a huge way and were fine for it. Even if Bargs was a mistake (I'm still holding out hope though) it isn't the end of the world. I trust that BC can still build a good team in spite of it.

Oviously blowing the top pick is a big, big mistake and Toronto doesn't have the foundation Detroit had, but I cringe at the fact that any of this team's woes going forward are going to be blamed on that pick...even if Bargnani turns out to be Vlad Radmanovic that doesn't mean that the Raptors have to be doomed for failure. People need to get over it rather than spend hours and hours patting themselves on the back about how they "knew" the Raps should have taken Roy or LMA or Gay. If you made that call, congratulations, clearly you should be running this team. Now move on to the next issue...

Except for the fact that detroit was just coming off of a championship, or were at least a champioship calibre/elite team. We aren't.

[The Notic]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out with his rep, if it doesn't significantly improve. I think he has made errors before, but been able to rectify them, but I don't know if there's a way of rectifying a top pick.

Therein lies the beauty of the #1 pick. Regardless of how the first few years pan out, showing flashes of brilliance (which Bargs has) while convincing other GM's that a change in scenery could increase said player's productivity, has the potential (lol, pun) to become an enticing package for other teams.

Let's not forget, Kwame was turned into Caron.