Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

Post #341 » by **Double Helix** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:27 pm

Player comparisons always lead to debate because few two players are exactly alike but am I the only guy who watches some Derrick Williams highlights and sees a little bit of Blake Griffin's intensity and playing style?

I fully realize he's not as wide bodied, tall, nor as athletic as Griffin and he certainly doesn't rebound like him but when you see him around the net he seems to have the same kind of desire to just score at all costs that Griffin has and he also seems to love to catch the lob and as Raptorsingh pointed out... that's not the kind of image that comes to mind when thinking about David West.

By no means am I suggesting he's even close to the same level of talent as Griffin because there are tons of differences as I was mentioning above (including the fact that Williams is a Tweener and Griffin a pure PF) but as far as playing style goes... I see a bit of Griffin, a bit of Corliss Williamson and perhaps a bit of Beasley in the way he likes to score. How that translates into a pro player is anyone's guess but I can see why he stands out at the college level.

Reignman · Post #342 » by **Reignman** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:27 pm

Rude Boy 1 wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

What? He can't shoot, can't defend, turns the ball over, doesn't get to the foul line.... you're right he is a perfect raptor!

Harrison Barnes is going to be Marvin Williams all over again.

Actually, he has been a pretty good defender all season. It's everything else that has been lacking. I'll give him this, his form on his jumper is really nice so I expect that his shot should fall with more consistency. Hopefully he keeps building on his last game and when the draft arrives I hope that he can erase some of the doubts people have on him.

TheDunc · Post #343 » by **TheDunc** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:28 pm

Rude Boy 1 wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

What? He can't shoot, can't defend, turns the ball over, doesn't get to the foul line.... you're right he is a perfect raptor!

Harrison Barnes is going to be Marvin Williams all over again.

Keep thinking that, Barnes has a great head on his shoulders and is a hard worker. Keep thinking he wont improve. When i look at Barnes i see a great skillset and a hard worker. Im not saying he will be the next kobe bryant like some people were predicting last year. ED davis and Demar derozan were in the exact same boat as barnes. Great upcoming prospects who were all suppose to go top 3 but because no one had a great college career, they all dropped.

TheDunc · Post #344 » by **TheDunc** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:39 pm

dagger wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

If you are going to pick someone in the top 3, then he better not be a player who has failed to adjust to a higher level of play. His last game was very encouraging, but I don't think it's smart to use a high pick on a player who hasn't shown fairly strong progression as he moves from level to level. If he starts to put a string of good games together, this concern can be set aside, but not yet. And frankly, DeRozan had the same type of college experience and while we're encouraged by his play of late - though not the last two games - it's not like he's going to be Kobe. He might not even make the Rookie-Soph game for the second year in a row.

Meh it works both ways Derozan and Ed davis are both players who were thought out to be top 3 prospects but then as the season went along they both dropped. As opposed to guys like Harden and Evan turner who both had great collegiate careers but then struggled once they entered the nba. Im not sure how people can look at Harrison Barnes skillset and then pass him off
He has a great nba body, hes not a tweener.Hes got a nice looking stroke although hes struggled a bit. Hes got some nice handles and moves to go along with the athletism to finish. Hes also a good defender. He has all this along with a good head on his shoulders and a great work ethic. Is he better then Derrick williams, terrence jones and some other prospects right now? probably not but i think he will make the transition just fine to the nba and will be a great fit on this raptors team.

DreamTeam09 · Post #345 » by **DreamTeam09** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:45 pm

I still got H.Barnes 4th on my raptor draft board.

Post #346 » by **Double Helix** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:59 pm

TheDunc wrote:
dagger wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

If you are going to pick someone in the top 3, then he better not be a player who has failed to adjust to a higher level of play. His last game was very encouraging, but I don't think it's smart to use a high pick on a player who hasn't shown fairly strong progression as he moves from level to level. If he starts to put a string of good games together, this concern can be set aside, but not yet. And frankly, DeRozan had the same type of college experience and while we're encouraged by his play of late - though not the last two games - it's not like he's going to be Kobe. He might not even make the Rookie-Soph game for the second year in a row.

Meh it works both ways Derozan and Ed davis are both players who were thought out to be top 3 prospects but then as the season went along they both dropped. As opposed to guys like Harden and Evan turner who both had great collegiate careers but then struggled once they entered the nba. Im not sure how people can look at Harrison Barnes skillset and then pass him off
He has a great nba body, hes not a tweener.Hes got a nice looking stroke although hes struggled a bit. Hes got some nice handles and moves to go along with the athletism to finish. Hes also a good defender. He has all this along with a good head on his shoulders and a great work ethic. Is he better then Derrick williams, terrence jones and some other prospects right now? probably not but i think he will make the transition just fine to the nba and will be a great fit on this raptors team.

I think he'll look better in workouts because, as you said, he really does have a nice foundation of skills, size, shooting mechanics and athleticism to work with but teams are definitely going to be spending a lot of time trying to determine just how badly he wants to exert his will on a basketball game and be an impact player. He finally showed some assertiveness last game but before that it sounded like he was playing pretty passively and just allowing the game to come to him.

Teams drafting with a top 4 pick will want more assurances that he's not content just fitting in or taking what the defence gives him. His last game was a step in the right direction but he'll need more of those kinds of performances the rest of the way.

Dr Positivity · Post #347 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:11 pm

I'm starting to think Jared Sullinger could be the best prospect in the draft and should be our pick. I think he has "oh crap, we totally wrote off that guy's perenniel all-star upside because he didn't wow us physically" written all over him

Indeed · Post #348 » by **Indeed** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:12 pm

TheDunc wrote:
dagger wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

If you are going to pick someone in the top 3, then he better not be a player who has failed to adjust to a higher level of play. His last game was very encouraging, but I don't think it's smart to use a high pick on a player who hasn't shown fairly strong progression as he moves from level to level. If he starts to put a string of good games together, this concern can be set aside, but not yet. And frankly, DeRozan had the same type of college experience and while we're encouraged by his play of late - though not the last two games - it's not like he's going to be Kobe. He might not even make the Rookie-Soph game for the second year in a row.

Meh it works both ways Derozan and Ed davis are both players who were thought out to be top 3 prospects but then as the season went along they both dropped. As opposed to guys like Harden and Evan turner who both had great collegiate careers but then struggled once they entered the nba. Im not sure how people can look at Harrison Barnes skillset and then pass him off
He has a great nba body, hes not a tweener.Hes got a nice looking stroke although hes struggled a bit. Hes got some nice handles and moves to go along with the athletism to finish. Hes also a good defender. He has all this along with a good head on his shoulders and a great work ethic. Is he better then Derrick williams, terrence jones and some other prospects right now? probably not but i think he will make the transition just fine to the nba and will be a great fit on this raptors team.

And you have Terrance Jones on your signature.
Barnes would be my 3rd option in SF, but would prefer someone who can start now, instead of someone raw who needs another year or two. I hope some PF would improve their rankings, so we can have a good pick even we dropped to pick 5th.

DreamTeam09 · Post #349 » by **DreamTeam09** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:17 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:I'm starting to think Jared Sullinger could be the best prospect in the draft and should be our pick. I think he has "oh crap, we totally wrote off that guy's perenniel all-star upside because he didn't wow us physically" written all over him

Put him at the 5 beside bargs? at the 4 beside bargs? at the 5 beside Ed? is he strictly a 4? He's listed at 6'9. I dont see real C potential.

Dr Positivity · Post #350 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm

Sullinger is a PF long term IMO. It'd be a BPA type pick and us saying we believe this guy has 20/12 potential so we're not letting Davis, Amir, Bargnani level players stop us from taking him. Similar to the Kings taking Tyreke Evans even though they had Kevin Martin IMO

sunny · Post #351 » by **sunny** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:42 pm

there are no such things as lists or options now. It's great to watch players now and get an idea of their abilities, but until April-May, these rankings mean absolutely nothing.

sunny · Post #352 » by **sunny** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:46 pm

Meh it works both ways Derozan and Ed davis are both players who were thought out to be top 3 prospects but then as the season went along they both dropped. As opposed to guys like Harden and Evan turner who both had great collegiate careers but then struggled once they entered the nba. Im not sure how people can look at Harrison Barnes skillset and then pass him off
He has a great nba body, hes not a tweener.Hes got a nice looking stroke although hes struggled a bit. Hes got some nice handles and moves to go along with the athletism to finish. Hes also a good defender. He has all this along with a good head on his shoulders and a great work ethic. Is he better then Derrick williams, terrence jones and some other prospects right now? probably not but i think he will make the transition just fine to the nba and will be a great fit on this raptors team.

ed davis was ranked 15th coming out of highschool
fair on demar, although usc is possibly the worst place in the ncaa to develop as a player.

I think its important to look at their programs though. Turner came to osu as a non elite prospect. Thad Matta is an outstanding coach and developed him well. Same goes for Ed and UNC.

USC and ASU are terrible terrible terrible programs with **** coaches (floyd and sendek) and offensives that were completely based around them (inflated stats)

Doctorb23 · Post #353 » by **Doctorb23** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:47 pm

should BC offer our miami pick for Randolph from the Knicks? I remembber lots of people on this forum drooling over him a few years back and I wonder what people think now?

DreamTeam09 · Post #354 » by **DreamTeam09** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:49 pm

Doctorb23 wrote:should BC offer our miami pick for Randolph from the Knicks? I remembber lots of people on this forum drooling over him a few years back and I wonder what people think now?

I think NY wants a better pick than the Miami one for Anthony Randolph. Am sure that might of happened already if the knicks wanted it.

dagger · Post #355 » by **dagger** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:54 pm

A dose of reality for those who like Kemba Walker. Amazing aggregate stats but his efficiency is dropping as good teams focus in on stopping him.

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/1/31/1 ... -up-to-the

wanker · Post #356 » by **wanker** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:55 pm

Anyone who takes Derrick Williams over Harrison Barnes should be fired. I am amazed at how many morons (NBA executives included) get over-hyped about lesser prospects having a strong NCAA season. Look at the 2010 draft, for example: basically all lottery picks who were not top high school prospects are ultimately disappointing at the NBA level (read, Turner, Edou, Aminu, Hayward, Aldrich).

sunny · Post #357 » by **sunny** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:06 pm

wanker wrote:Anyone who takes Derrick Williams over Harrison Barnes should be fired. I am amazed at how many morons (NBA executives included) get over-hyped about lesser prospects having a strong NCAA season. Look at the 2010 draft, for example: basically all lottery picks who were not top high school prospects are ultimately disappointing at the NBA level (read, Turner, Edou, Aminu, Hayward, Aldrich).

Im not sure where my last post went -- but you couldnt be more off base.

then again, you most likely dont follow recruits in highschool or college recruiting, yet alone understand how rankings work.

TheRealDeal · Post #358 » by **TheRealDeal** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:08 pm

dagger wrote:
TheDunc wrote:I cant believe alot of people are passing on Harrison Barnes. He is the perfect fit here, obviously if irving is on the board then you take him but if hes gone then you have to take Barnes. Just because he has struggled in his early collegiate career doesnt make him a bust. The guy has a great skill set, he can shoot,pass,handle and defend. Hes got good athletism and a strong nba ready body. Plus hes only 19 years old.

Im salivating at the idea of a Barnes,Derozan wing rotation. Thats a great future duo. Harrison Barnes didnt lose all his skills over night.

If you are going to pick someone in the top 3, then he better not be a player who has failed to adjust to a higher level of play. His last game was very encouraging, but I don't think it's smart to use a high pick on a player who hasn't shown fairly strong progression as he moves from level to level. If he starts to put a string of good games together, this concern can be set aside, but not yet. And frankly, DeRozan had the same type of college experience and while we're encouraged by his play of late - though not the last two games - it's not like he's going to be Kobe. He might not even make the Rookie-Soph game for the second year in a row.

It's amazing how fast people forget (or never knew) about what Harrison Barnes accomplished at the High School level. He won his Iowa AAU team a national title against most of his peers in this draft class, didn't lose a game the past two seasons of H.S. ball looking unstoppable doing so, won H.S. national player of the year, ranked the #1 prospect in his class, won MVP or co-MVP in the Jordan and McDonald's games, pre-season 1st team All-American before he played an NCAA game and projected #1 draft pick for months.

He hasn't had a terrible Freshman season, he just hasn't been John Wall or the old Barnes yet. In his last game he had 25 pts and 6 board in 25 minutes on 10-16 shooting with 3 triples against N.C. State. On the year he's been averaging 5.3 board in 27 mpg which is a great number for a first year SF. Barnes has the height, body, athleticism, IQ, and has shown it before.

It seems like seems like some of you are confused about what kind of player he is. His defense is very solid and he has the tools to become a great NBA defender. His jump shot is smooth and he has shown NBA 3 range. He can also get to the rim and finish. These mock draft sites aren't NBA GM's and they are constantly changing based on recent play. UNC hasn't been utilizing Harrison as their go-to guy just yet and IMO that has caused him not to play to his standards or stand out as much this season.

Once the real GM's get a look at Barnes and see everything he can do, he'll move up. Roy's been holding him back a bit (maybe bc he wants him to stay

) but in the long run this season will make him a better player. He's a brilliant kid (sounds like a nerd if you hear him talk) who is constantly working on his game and improving every aspect. But don't be surprised if Barnes is still in the NCAA next season if people aren't promising him top-3.

sunny · Post #359 » by **sunny** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:09 pm

dagger wrote:A dose of reality for those who like Kemba Walker. Amazing aggregate stats but his efficiency is dropping as good teams focus in on stopping him.

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/1/31/1 ... -up-to-the

his percentages against good teams is beyond awful.

fredericklove · Post #360 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:46 pm

wanker wrote:Anyone who takes Derrick Williams over Harrison Barnes should be fired. I am amazed at how many morons (NBA executives included) get over-hyped about lesser prospects having a strong NCAA season. Look at the 2010 draft, for example: basically all lottery picks who were not top high school prospects are ultimately disappointing at the NBA level (read, Turner, Edou, Aminu, Hayward, Aldrich).

I wouldn't say they're morons but :noway:

...I still find Barnes having more potential than Derrick Williams