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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#341 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Apr 3, 2011 5:48 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:Can Jones play SF though. That's the big question. I don't think he can

That can only be determined in the workouts. People thought Paul George was a SF/PF tweener until the workouts, where they then began calling him a SG.

Perry can handle the ball-- he was comfortable bringing the ball up for Baylor, and he's good at taking his man off the dribble and getting to the basket (his first step is elite). He's got good court vision, and makes great passes from the perimeter and in the paint. He has good form on his midrange jumper (kind of reminds me a bit of DeMar), coming off a screen or pulling up/taking fadeaways off the dribble--although he hasn't been hitting them at a great clip this year. He's great at running the floor as well and can finish in transition. I think his handles are better than DeMar's when we drafted him, as well as his passing and ability to set up teammates. I think he's going to have a good midrange game, with the ability to post up smaller guys (which, if he's playing SF, would be just about everyone), and if he (and/or DeMar) extend their range to the 3pt line, they're going to be a lethal combination on the wings because they can both get to the basket and finish (and have a certain natural fluidity about the way they do it).

I think with Perry it will all come down to work ethic. We saw how things paid off for DeMar, if Perry puts in that kind of work he's going to be very special.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#342 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 5:54 am

MEDIC wrote:That right there is the knock on Knight. Out of control when he drives.....lots of turnovers.

He'd have to improve his handle a lot, or he'd get stripped all the time in the NBA.

While Knight's mid-range game is impressive, it unfortunately plays into some of his problems as a player, namely his incredible tendency to turn the ball over, as he's averaging 4.4 turnovers per game compared to just 3.6 assists thus far. Knight frequently gets into trouble forcing dribble penetration, either losing control of the ball in a crowd or over-penetrating and tries to bail himself out with a last second pass, one that usually isn't successful.

Knight's passing game in general is a major cause for concern based on what he's shown very early on in college, as he rarely looks for teammates when creating his own shot, getting most of his assists by simply moving the ball around the perimeter in the flow of the offense.


From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bra ... z1IQM64488
http://www.draftexpress.com


That write-up was done 8 games into the season. He improved his handle and reduced his turnovers a lot during the course of the year.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#343 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 5:58 am

Reignman wrote:Medic/5DOM: 1 Reignman: 0

God, I hope we get Irving.


Why does everyone put so much stock in one game, no matter the magnitude?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#344 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 6:01 am

MEDIC wrote:
Reignman wrote:Medic/5DOM: 1 Reignman: 0

God, I hope we get Irving.


Cheers to that. I don't know if I really want either of these players. We've already got an offense first PG in Bayless that already has experience. I might start leaning towards Kanter, depending on how his measurements/ workouts go.

Praying for top 3 in the lottery.


Of course, because you can't critique him. If he was playing in this tournament his flaws would be revealed too.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#345 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 6:05 am

fredericklove wrote:wow so much hate on Knight in the last few pages, I thought people praise him like he was the best prospect the raptors had to take in this year's draft lol.


Can you see the similarities with the Raptors' games threads? This fanbase is up and down like a toilet seat.

I don't know how anyone can watch several games and determine that they like a player and then flip-flop after the next game.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#346 » by Comeatme_Bro » Sun Apr 3, 2011 6:06 am

CunningLinguist wrote:
fredericklove wrote:wow so much hate on Knight in the last few pages, I thought people praise him like he was the best prospect the raptors had to take in this year's draft lol.


Can you see the similarities with the Raptors' games threads? This fanbase is up and down like a toilet seat.

I don't know how anyone can watch several games and determine that they like a player and then flip-flop after the next game.

What if the toilet seat is in a house with guys only.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#347 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 6:10 am

Comeatme_Bro wrote:
CunningLinguist wrote:
fredericklove wrote:wow so much hate on Knight in the last few pages, I thought people praise him like he was the best prospect the raptors had to take in this year's draft lol.


Can you see the similarities with the Raptors' games threads? This fanbase is up and down like a toilet seat.

I don't know how anyone can watch several games and determine that they like a player and then flip-flop after the next game.

What if the toilet seat is in a house with guys only.


I always put the seat down :)
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#348 » by careful » Sun Apr 3, 2011 7:03 am

Still not that excited about the prospects this year outside of Irving.
I guess I'd have Barnes #2 behind Irving, but he seems to love his jumpshot a bit too much.
Derrick Williams would be interesting for us if he's able to play the 3. And same for Kanter if he could play center.
Valanciunas seems like a decent prospect, but maybe a bit too raw for a top 5 pick material.
Same with Perry Jones. He actually scares me the most out of all the guys mentioned. Poor motor + shys away from contact + no interest in playing defense = not what this team needs.
As for Kemba and Knight, I feel we already have a similar prospect already on the team (Bayless).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#349 » by Kevin Willis » Sun Apr 3, 2011 7:05 am

If ppl like Perry why not just draft Vesely. They're both 6-11. They're both PF/SF hybrids that project to being a SF. Their both very explosive and athletic.

However, Vesely is noted to be a warrior that likes dunking on players. He shoots 35% from 3 compared to Perry's 20%. Vesely's demeanour is more of an energy player compared to a smooth player (think Kirilenko compared to Charlie V.) Vesely is showing improvement in his game. They both can guard multiple positions. Vesely is 20 lbs heavier. Vesely plays the SF position in Europe while Perry plays PF giving Vesely less of a learning curve. Perry shows more skill offensively but is still very raw.

They're like bizarro twins of each other but Vesely will probably reach his ceiling and Perry is uncertain. Vesely is also a little nasty and he would fit in with this group of Raptors. Perry being lackadaisical can end up being like Randolph or that Irish guy we got from the Celtics who was drafted high (Forgot his name).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#350 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Apr 3, 2011 11:43 am

Kevin Willis wrote:If ppl like Perry why not just draft Vesely. They're both 6-11. They're both PF/SF hybrids that project to being a SF. Their both very explosive and athletic.

However, Vesely is noted to be a warrior that likes dunking on players. He shoots 35% from 3 compared to Perry's 20%. Vesely's demeanour is more of an energy player compared to a smooth player (think Kirilenko compared to Charlie V.) Vesely is showing improvement in his game. They both can guard multiple positions. Vesely is 20 lbs heavier. Vesely plays the SF position in Europe while Perry plays PF giving Vesely less of a learning curve. Perry shows more skill offensively but is still very raw.

They're like bizarro twins of each other but Vesely will probably reach his ceiling and Perry is uncertain. Vesely is also a little nasty and he would fit in with this group of Raptors. Perry being lackadaisical can end up being like Randolph or that Irish guy we got from the Celtics who was drafted high (Forgot his name).

The problem I have with Vesely is that he gets exploited defensively, and while he's got some great hops, he doesn't have the speed, ballhandling, or ability to create with the ball that Perry does.
here's some snippets from his DX profile:
His ball-handling skills remain mediocre at best. Watching him handle the ball in the open floor is definitely not a pretty sight. He's able to beat his defender off the dribble at times with his first step, but it's still something of an adventure for him trying to create his own shot from the perimeter—you just never know how things are going to turn out. He's not someone you want making decisions with the ball. His feel for the game is just average and it's not rare to see him make bad decisions, particularly in the form of unnecessary turnovers.

If unable to convert with a dunk around the rim, Vesely still has problems finishing through contact due to a distinct lack of strength. He doesn't put good touch on his shots and is definitely not the most fluid or instinctive offensive player you'll find. Many times he seems to just throw the ball up on the rim hoping for the best.

Even with his prodigious athleticism, Vesely still isn't much of a presence on the glass. He grabs just one defensive rebound for every 10 ½ minutes he's on the court, which is a very poor rate. It's here that his lack of girth and poor instincts seem to show the most. He's too skinny to put a body on opponents, and he doesn't pursue the ball off the rim the way you might hope.

On the other hand, it's tough to ignore the fact that opposing coaches in Europe clearly game-plan against him, trying to create situations where they can isolate their best wing player against him with space to operate. In these situations, Vesely tends to struggle. He has difficulty getting in a low stance at his size and just doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay in front of the extremely quick and aggressive shot-creators he often finds at the small forward position.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jan-Vesely-1402/

I think all 4 of these areas are where Perry does well, and I think that's why he has a chance to really excel at the SF position.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#351 » by Crazy-Canuck » Sun Apr 3, 2011 12:20 pm

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:if we end up 4th and the top 3 picks are

Irving
Williams
Barnes (i hope he drops to us)

and these are left on the board. Whos your choice?
- Kanter
- P.Jones
- K.Walker
- Val
- B.Knight

ideally we end up with Barnes IMO but if not i think id go with Kemba...



Im not as high on Williams as most of you are.

Irving
Barnes

If not, I strongly consider taking Val and stashing him in Europe for another year or go pure upside with Jones.

Anything outside of 4, I d'd consider trading it to some team that falls in love with a player.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#352 » by sunny » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:10 pm

What about the guy who was a top 10 recruit coming out of highschool, averaged 20 points, 4 assists and 3 rebounds a game in his freshman year at college, was projected to be the third pick in the draft most of the year, but droped to 7 in the latest mocks due to an surge in improvement of other pointguards.

Can anybody here explain to me why Knight/Walker are better prospects than our very own Jerryd Bayless in their opinion?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#353 » by MinnyMo » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:23 pm

sunny wrote:What about the guy who was a top 10 recruit coming out of highschool, averaged 20 points, 4 assists and 3 rebounds a game in his freshman year at college, was projected to be the third pick in the draft most of the year, but droped to 7 in the latest mocks due to an surge in improvement of other pointguards.

Can anybody here explain to me why Knight/Walker are better prospects than our very own Jerryd Bayless in their opinion?

I do see a bit of Bayless in Knight, but as far as kemba goes, he exudes confidence, leadership, grit to go along with a booming personality and the heart and sheer determination of a winner,he brings the intangibles this team has lacked for a very long time.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#354 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:39 pm

MinnyMo wrote:
sunny wrote:What about the guy who was a top 10 recruit coming out of highschool, averaged 20 points, 4 assists and 3 rebounds a game in his freshman year at college, was projected to be the third pick in the draft most of the year, but droped to 7 in the latest mocks due to an surge in improvement of other pointguards.

Can anybody here explain to me why Knight/Walker are better prospects than our very own Jerryd Bayless in their opinion?

I do see a bit of Bayless in Knight, but as far as kemba goes, he exudes confidence, leadership, grit to go along with a booming personality and the heart and sheer determination of a winner, he brings the intangibles this team has lacked for a very long time.

I think Bayless shows the same things when he's on the court. I think Kemba can be a good player, but I also feel that Jerryd can be just as good. In 8 games for us as a starter, he's averaged 15.9 ppg (46% FG%), 4.5 FTA, 4 rebs, 7.5 assists, 2.4 TOs in 33mpg. Those numbers are at least in the same neighbourhood as Jrue Holiday (who is averaging 13.9pts/6.4asts/4.0rebs on 45% shooting)--and it's not just as a starter, if you look at his per36 numbers, Jerryd is putting up 14.9pts/6.7asts/4.3rpg on 42% shooting. I don't have a problem picking Kemba if he's the BPA, but given where our draft slot is now at #4 (and edging closer to #3), I think it's highly unlikely that that will be the case when we draft with Kyrie/Perry/Kanter/Barnes/Williams/Valanciunas available.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#355 » by sunny » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:51 pm

In all honesty, Bayless was a better college player and prospect than Knight or Kemba are. He also plays a very similar type of game too.
Forget the fact that we already have Bayless on our team, but I don't see how either of those two players impact our team better/differently than Bayless already does.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#356 » by wegetitin08 » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:52 pm

Sorry I was just wondering what day is the lottery? (I know its sometime in May if I'm not mistaken).

Also my Raptors Board goes:
-Irving
-Williams
-Kanter
-Barnes/P.J/Knight
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#357 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun Apr 3, 2011 2:01 pm

wegetitin08 wrote:Sorry I was just wondering what day is the lottery? (I know its sometime in May if I'm not mistaken).

Also my Raptors Board goes:
-Irving
-Williams
-Kanter
-Barnes/P.J/Knight

Lottery is Tuesday, May 17
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#358 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 2:29 pm

sunny wrote:What about the guy who was a top 10 recruit coming out of highschool, averaged 20 points, 4 assists and 3 rebounds a game in his freshman year at college, was projected to be the third pick in the draft most of the year, but droped to 7 in the latest mocks due to an surge in improvement of other pointguards.

Can anybody here explain to me why Knight/Walker are better prospects than our very own Jerryd Bayless in their opinion?


For one, they're both better shooters and penetrators. I think they both have better PG instincts, though a lot of people don't see it because of the fact that they're counted on to score for their teams (especially Walker).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#359 » by 5DOM » Sun Apr 3, 2011 2:48 pm

Not sure how Knight is a better penetrator than Bayless was, but I think people forget how good of a prospect Bayless was.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6 

Post#360 » by CunningLinguist » Sun Apr 3, 2011 2:55 pm

5DOM wrote:Not sure how Knight is a better penetrator than Bayless was, but I think people forget how good of a prospect Bayless was.


He's a better penetrator because he can get to the hoop more easily without a screen. You have to consider that the paint area is much more congested in college than the pros.

I think the fact that Knight and Walker didn't have great games last night and Bayless did is influencing people's opinions a little too much.

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