OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

trancaohuy · Post #341 » by **trancaohuy** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:53 pm

In case anyone miss the game here is the highlight
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXcK35lF3Rg[/youtube]

fredericklove · Post #342 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:03 pm

Recap of these two

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6QQ-pYZyE[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lgI-8np7w[/youtube]

MikeM · Post #343 » by **MikeM** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:07 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
MikeM wrote:College stats mean nothing to me. All I care about is the players strengths/weaknesses versus men in the NBA.

Wiggins will have no disadvantages against anyone. All star players share that common trait. There are no questions over whether this defender is faster or stronger or bigger. None of it matters. None of it will matter to Wiggins.

McGrady was all athleticism with us and in a couple years in ORL he was suddenly playing point forward and shooting from 2 feet behind the line.

A regular #1 overall pick does nothing for your team. It just puts you on the treadmill faster. Irving, Wall, Griffin type players don't lead to championships. It's the generational guys like Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Shaq that will win you championships. They all fit the archetypes of their position which is why a guy like Randle is a non-starter for me. You have to find that generational guy.

The generational guy usually has no physical limitations or mismatches and has a set in stone preferred position. I know for a fact that Wiggins will at least fit that part of the mold. Does he have some development left? Absolutely. But if he develops his ceiling is higher than Parker's IMO.

That's overstating the physical side of things. Guys like Duncan, Kobe and even Jordan owed their success much more to skill than athleticism. The NBA landscape is littered with great athletes who weren't great basketball players - Gerald Green, James White, Darius Miles, Stromile Swift, Marvin Williams, etc. I find it funny that John Wall is on your "non-generational" list, seeing as he has every physical gift you could want in an archetypal PG.

PGs don't win championships IMO.

Troubadour · Post #344 » by **Troubadour** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:11 pm

He looked pretty great in last night's game. Playing within the system, passing the ball, rebounding, defending, etc.

fredericklove · Post #345 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:12 pm

Magic Johnson played PG, and he won 5 rings.

daswunderboy · Post #346 » by **daswunderboy** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:48 pm

I'm shocked that Raptor fans...RAPTOR FANS!!!...don't like that Wiggins willingly passes the ball to keep the offense moving...as if we haven't been watching with horror as Gay and Derozen hoist shot after shot, regardless of the situation.

I find it refreshing that he will pick his spots and pass up bad shots in favour of good looks for his team.

Komodo · Post #347 » by **Komodo** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:50 pm

My concern with him is his handle and playmaking ability. How is it now? Can he developit? It's always a huge risk to draft a guy with a weak handle and count on him improving it. Otherwise he may just end up a role player on one side of the ball.

OvertimeNO · Post #348 » by **OvertimeNO** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:05 pm

Komodo wrote:My concern with him is his handle and playmaking ability. How is it now? Can he developit? It's always a huge risk to draft a guy with a weak handle and count on him improving it. Otherwise he may just end up a role player on one side of the ball.

Same. The LeBron (or even Paul George) comparisons are moot if he can't get in a position to do anything with passing ability.

It's very rare for guys to develop their handles that much once they're in the NBA. The local example, VC, didn't improve that much between his 1st and 2nd year; his handles were always pretty good, just underrated.

Kabookalu · Post #349 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:09 pm

Komodo wrote:My concern with him is his handle and playmaking ability. How is it now? Can he developit? It's always a huge risk to draft a guy with a weak handle and count on him improving it. Otherwise he may just end up a role player on one side of the ball.

Granted he's not a great playmaker, but he's shown a willingness to get teammates involved. I don't know if he'll be a guy that you can give the ball to and expect to create, but he can be a Richard Hamilton type who gets others involved in the context of an offense.

Hero · Post #350 » by **Hero** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:11 pm

Based on what he's shown so far, do you guys see him as a Durant/ Anthony Davis level prospect? (unfair to compare anyone to LeBron)

dTox · Post #351 » by **dTox** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:34 pm

Hero wrote:Based on what he's shown so far, do you guys see him as a Durant/ Anthony Davis level prospect? (unfair to compare anyone to LeBron)

Absolutely not, Davis/Durant not only were just as physically gifted but their skills were on par with their body, with that said; its still way to early to determine that and I could be dead wrong by the time March/April roles around.

bigmandinky · Post #352 » by **bigmandinky** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:53 pm

If anything, I'm impressed the most by his poise, unselfishness, and willingness to make the right play. Wiggins doesn't force the issue, he makes good passes and sets up teammates. For someone who has to deal with the absurd presssure of proving he's the next-Lebron among a draft class full of stars, Wiggins is suprisingly mature and focused on making plays to help his team win.

I see him as a cross between Scottie Pippen and T-Mac.

Sterling_Archer · Post #353 » by **Sterling_Archer** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:10 pm

I still feel he needs to improve his handles and jump shot. He's so good off the ball in getting in lanes and to the hop that if he could also be a catch a shoot guy or force defenders to come up on him even more it would make him that more lethal. Handles would be great to add but I don't know how much he can improve in that area already. Right now even though it's really early on you could argue that he has been the 4th best prospect in this amazing class. Nothing against him just people like Smart, Parker, Randel, Hood, maybe even Exum depending on who you ask have shown more so far. I won't pretend like wiggins has impressed me the most so far, he hasn't but it's still early and he has a chance to. all in all it seems like you can get a great prospect even outside of the top five maybe even into the rest of the whole lottery. I won

Young_Buc · Post #354 » by **Young_Buc** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:19 pm

daswunderboy wrote:I'm shocked that Raptor fans...RAPTOR FANS!!!...don't like that Wiggins willingly passes the ball to keep the offense moving...as if we haven't been watching with horror as Gay and Derozen hoist shot after shot, regardless of the situation.

I find it refreshing that he will pick his spots and pass up bad shots in favour of good looks for his team.

THIS is what I'm saying!!!!! Parker is VERY nice, but takes poor shots in the games I've watched him in. Sometimes they drop and sometimes they don't. If he has an NBA level defender on him I'm unsure if he can hit at a 45% clip. Sometimes I've seen him do crossovers or step backs WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE TO. I am sick and tired of watching players from the Kobe Bryant/Allen Iverson school of scoring where a player can have a number of pretty moves then shoot under 45%. That is not winning basketball!

A large contingent of Raptor hipsters are so self loathing that it even crosses over to a player from our city. It fits the perpetuating tankers (who say the same thing every year, not just this year) to a T.

Kabookalu · Post #355 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:21 pm

For me who doesn't value alpha male scoring as the most coveted trait of a basketball player he's been the most impressive prospect. Compound that with the fact that he's showing a great work ethic and a mature way of approaching the game (Bill Self has been bombarded by Wiggins always asking him questions about his system).

The problems Wiggins is being hounded by now are the same ones Anthony Davis faced in college. Some thought that he'd be nothing more than a better Joakim Noah because he was just too passive. Look at him now, already one of the best PF's in the league and has the potential to be a top 3 player in the league.

Granted though I don't think Wiggins will be as impactful in college as Davis was.

boateng · Post #356 » by **boateng** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:25 pm

I think will be the better player

Wiggins make have the higher ceiling but not all players reach that ceiling.

Parker reminds me of a melo/pierce where you just know they will be legit and be at least an all star level player

boateng · Post #357 » by **boateng** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:28 pm

brownbobcat wrote:
MikeM wrote:College stats mean nothing to me. All I care about is the players strengths/weaknesses versus men in the NBA.

Wiggins will have no disadvantages against anyone. All star players share that common trait. There are no questions over whether this defender is faster or stronger or bigger. None of it matters. None of it will matter to Wiggins.

McGrady was all athleticism with us and in a couple years in ORL he was suddenly playing point forward and shooting from 2 feet behind the line.

A regular #1 overall pick does nothing for your team. It just puts you on the treadmill faster. Irving, Wall, Griffin type players don't lead to championships. It's the generational guys like Duncan, Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Shaq that will win you championships. They all fit the archetypes of their position which is why a guy like Randle is a non-starter for me. You have to find that generational guy.

The generational guy usually has no physical limitations or mismatches and has a set in stone preferred position. I know for a fact that Wiggins will at least fit that part of the mold. Does he have some development left? Absolutely. But if he develops his ceiling is higher than Parker's IMO.

That's overstating the physical side of things. Guys like Duncan, Kobe and even Jordan owed their success much more to skill than athleticism. The NBA landscape is littered with great athletes who weren't great basketball players - Gerald Green, James White, Darius Miles, Stromile Swift, Marvin Williams, etc. I find it funny that John Wall is on your "non-generational" list, seeing as he has every physical gift you could want in an archetypal PG.

not to mention shannon brown

people need to be careful with the westbrook comparison...he may be a one off as like you said there are many freak athletes, some even more than westbrook but were not that good in the NBA.

Chaos Engine · Post #358 » by **Chaos Engine** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:29 pm

Its not his lack of alpha attitude that concerns me personally. I just don't like his lack of a handle/very average playmaking. That said, Paul George doesn't have the greatest handle either, yet he's shown he's approaching superstar status.

Just because he's Canadian doesn't mean he's not allowed to be criticized.

Clementine9 · Post #359 » by **Clementine9** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:31 pm

Chaos Engine wrote:Just because he's Canadian doesn't mean he's not allowed to be criticized.

Just so you know, I'm working tirelessly to have you deported.

boateng · Post #360 » by **boateng** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:31 pm

Chaos Engine wrote:Its not his lack of alpha attitude that concerns me personally. I just don't like his lack of a handle/very average playmaking. That said, Paul George doesn't have the greatest handle either, yet he's shown he's approaching superstar status.

Just because he's Canadian doesn't mean he's not allowed to be criticized.

this is what i find bizarre, i understand its nice to draft the home town kid, but that really shouldn't mean anything in wanting your team to get the best player

if parker or emblid are better than wiggins, you draft one of those guys.