OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[Fairview4Life]

My work is forcing a mandatory screening every morning now. Is this happening with you guys as well?

Yes, happens at a bunch of workplaces I know of as well as daycares. I’m in a province with possibly 0 active cases at this point. Worst case single digits, but haven’t checked in awhile.

[TheRealDeal]

Is there any chance the Raptors will get to play in Toronto next season? Makes me sad to think how long we might go before being able to see them play again in front of a packed crowd at home

[Raps in 4]

My work is forcing a mandatory screening every morning now. Is this happening with you guys as well?

That should be mandatory for any workplace IMO. But even better, any workplace that can accomodate working from home should be forced to do so.

[Raps in 4]

Is there any chance the Raptors will get to play in Toronto next season? Makes me sad to think how long we might go before getting to see them play again in front of a packed crowd at home

Depends on when the vaccines start rolling out and when the season starts.

They might start the season in the bubble and then transition to local stadiums once the players are vaccinated. The NBA certainly isn't keen on staying in the bubble a moment longer than they need to.

[TheRealDeal]

Is there any chance the Raptors will get to play in Toronto next season? Makes me sad to think how long we might go before getting to see them play again in front of a packed crowd at home

Depends on when the vaccines start rolling out and when the season starts.

If the plan is to go back to an October-June schedule then part of me wonders if they'll scrap next season and wait until a year from now to start up again. Especially if the vaccine isn't ready

[Raps in 4]

Is there any chance the Raptors will get to play in Toronto next season? Makes me sad to think how long we might go before getting to see them play again in front of a packed crowd at home

Depends on when the vaccines start rolling out and when the season starts.

If the plan is to go back to an October-June schedule then part of me wonders if they'll scrap next season and wait until a year from now to start up again. Especially if the vaccine isn't ready

It would make sense. But I'm not sure if they can afford to do it financially.

[Westside Gunn]

i just recieved a gif on my whatsapp of a guy shooting a bus driver after being asked to put on a mask. then i googled and there were multiple results of workers getting assaulted by people for asking people to put on a mask.

because people overall are retards, i can understand why martial law exists.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bus-driver-attacked-her-face-fractured-after-she-tells-passenger-to-wear-face-mask

i fully support shooting people like this, on sight.

[execoftheyear]

I would say the majority of Japanese are wearing masks these days, but they certainly aren't fanatical with social distancing as we are here though. There's plenty of video of jam packed subways and buses and people walking on streets without worrying about staying 6 ft away from each other and Japanese authorities even allow some parties, concerts and other large gatherings without going nuts and cracking down on people.

So pretty much the only thing the Japanese people are doing better than us is largely having no problems with wearing masks in public and that's about it because they certainly aren't doing better than us when it comes to keeping apart from each other and being fanatical about enforcing the 6ft apart rule.

Goes to show how effective masks are yet we still have idiots who think it's an "infringement on their freedom". Masks only work if majority use them and use them correctly otherwise you kind of have to rely on social distancing to compensate for people who can't follow this simple solution.

I'd say the biggest mistake our government made was lying about how masks don't work because of the mask shortage for health care workers. When you suddenly flip the other direction and say the opposite, of course you're going to lose the trust from people. Now we have idiots spreading misinformation about how masks can cause carbon dioxide poisoning or how they are used as muzzles to control people and other stupid excuses to avoid wearing them. People are using fake face mask medical exemptions to avoid wearing masks. Meanwhile in Japan, I don't think this exists when it comes to wearing a mask.

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible that they lied about it. They should have simply diverted all PPE stock to hospitals until they could increase manufacturing capacity. There was no need to say masks don't work. That gave the conspiracy theorists all the ammo they'd need to push their agenda.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it was a politically-motivated decision as no party wanted to admit they didn't prepare their country/province for a pandemic.

People were clearing stocks off shelves, ordering ridiculous amounts online and even scamming people with their marked up prices or flat out stealing peoples' money. I even remember reading articles about people stealing masks at hospitals. I agree, they shouldn't have lied about masks not working. It was a horribly thought out panic move as a result of all the mask hoarding and scalping. They should've recommended home made masks a lot sooner rather than flat out saying masks in general don't work. But honestly, I don't think that would've prevented people from hoarding medical grade masks, it would've probably just fueled it even more, people are greedy, just look at the toilet paper situation.

[First Step]

It's not fear mongering if you yourself are afraid to get infected by a "minor virus" while talking **** on a message board. Numbers and talk mean ****.

You don't want this virus because you just don't know if it ends up being a minor case or it takes you to the ICU and puts you on a ventilator. Old or young...it's happened to people of all ages. It's not like a common cold...a real "minor virus". I've known 20-something year olds and 30-something year olds who ended feeling really sick for over a month with covid. I've seen 30-something year old healthy people with covid in our ICU. Your numbers don't mean **** to these people.

I don't fear monger...but I respect the threat. That's an important distinction.

Actually, that's exactly what you did. You provided anecdotal evidence instead of providing actual data on "20-something year olds and 30-something year olds".

I'm telling you that it has happened to people I know or have seen in the ICU at my the hospital I work in. Should I not tell the truth? Should I candy-coat it? There is a difference between fear mongering and just stating a fact.

That's fine, but your own experiences aren't what we should be looking at when accessing the risks of COVID for that demographic. If the data doesn't support your anecdote, it doesn't mean you dismiss it in the name of virtue-signaling your moral superiority on a message board.

[Raps in 4]

Goes to show how effective masks are yet we still have idiots who think it's an "infringement on their freedom". Masks only work if majority use them and use them correctly otherwise you kind of have to rely on social distancing to compensate for people who can't follow this simple solution.

I'd say the biggest mistake our government made was lying about how masks don't work because of the mask shortage for health care workers. When you suddenly flip the other direction and say the opposite, of course you're going to lose the trust from people. Now we have idiots spreading misinformation about how masks can cause carbon dioxide poisoning or how they are used as muzzles to control people and other stupid excuses to avoid wearing them. People are using fake face mask medical exemptions to avoid wearing masks. Meanwhile in Japan, I don't think this exists when it comes to wearing a mask.

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible that they lied about it. They should have simply diverted all PPE stock to hospitals until they could increase manufacturing capacity. There was no need to say masks don't work. That gave the conspiracy theorists all the ammo they'd need to push their agenda.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it was a politically-motivated decision as no party wanted to admit they didn't prepare their country/province for a pandemic.

People were clearing stocks off shelves, ordering ridiculous amounts online and even scamming people with their marked up prices or flat out stealing peoples' money. I even remember reading articles about people stealing masks at hospitals. I agree, they shouldn't have lied about masks not working. It was a horribly thought out panic move as a result of all the mask hoarding and scalping. They should've recommended home made masks a lot sooner rather than flat out saying masks in general don't work. But honestly, I don't think that would've prevented people from hoarding medical grade masks, it would've probably just fueled it even more, people are greedy, just look at the toilet paper situation.

That begs the question why hospitals were sourcing their PPE from Walmart, Shoppers, Amazon, etc. (or at least competing for the same suppliers) to begin with.

And if that was the case, the government could have easily diverted all of the stock from store shelves to hospitals.

[mtcan]

Actually, that's exactly what you did. You provided anecdotal evidence instead of providing actual data on "20-something year olds and 30-something year olds".

I'm telling you that it has happened to people I know or have seen in the ICU at my the hospital I work in. Should I not tell the truth? Should I candy-coat it? There is a difference between fear mongering and just stating a fact.

That's fine, but your own experiences aren't what we should be looking at when accessing the risks of COVID for that demographic. If the data doesn't support your anecdote, it doesn't mean you dismiss it in the name of virtue-signaling your moral superiority on a message board.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Overreliance on numbers can lead people to really stupid conclusions.

Perspective and real world experience is also needed.

[DaFroMan]

My work is forcing a mandatory screening every morning now. Is this happening with you guys as well?

Most work places are doing this yes. Also at my work when I'm dealing with contractors I'm supposed to pre screen them for covid before sharing a job site with them. One of the questions is do you have diarrhea? I REFUSE to ask anyone on a job site if they have diarrhea. Also im not a doctor and do not feel comfortable asking another person medical questions. Some places like my work are going way overboard.

Everyone should remember if you call in sick for any reason covid or not a supervisor or place of work cannot ask what you are sick with. Even if they require a doctor's note the note just needs to say you are sick and required time or more time off not a diagnosis for your work.

As far as i know pandemic or not a place of work can't make you get tested for covid or anything else before returning to work. Now if you out right say "I'm sick and I think I have covid" your opening yourself up to what ever they want for you to return.

I think its important people know how much an employer can pry into your personally info when an employees sick. Covid has not changed that and if anyone mandates testing id think thats a violation of some sort of right. Pre screening as long as your entering their building is most likely ok.

[execoftheyear]

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible that they lied about it. They should have simply diverted all PPE stock to hospitals until they could increase manufacturing capacity. There was no need to say masks don't work. That gave the conspiracy theorists all the ammo they'd need to push their agenda.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it was a politically-motivated decision as no party wanted to admit they didn't prepare their country/province for a pandemic.

People were clearing stocks off shelves, ordering ridiculous amounts online and even scamming people with their marked up prices or flat out stealing peoples' money. I even remember reading articles about people stealing masks at hospitals. I agree, they shouldn't have lied about masks not working. It was a horribly thought out panic move as a result of all the mask hoarding and scalping. They should've recommended home made masks a lot sooner rather than flat out saying masks in general don't work. But honestly, I don't think that would've prevented people from hoarding medical grade masks, it would've probably just fueled it even more, people are greedy, just look at the toilet paper situation.

That begs the question why hospitals were sourcing their PPE from Walmart, Shoppers, Amazon, etc. (or at least competing for the same suppliers) to begin with.

And if that was the case, the government could have easily diverted all of the stock from store shelves to hospitals.

healthcare workers aren't the only jobs that require n95 masks though. How do you think those workers would feel? It's not that simple.

[Clay Davis]

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible that they lied about it. They should have simply diverted all PPE stock to hospitals until they could increase manufacturing capacity. There was no need to say masks don't work. That gave the conspiracy theorists all the ammo they'd need to push their agenda.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it was a politically-motivated decision as no party wanted to admit they didn't prepare their country/province for a pandemic.

People were clearing stocks off shelves, ordering ridiculous amounts online and even scamming people with their marked up prices or flat out stealing peoples' money. I even remember reading articles about people stealing masks at hospitals. I agree, they shouldn't have lied about masks not working. It was a horribly thought out panic move as a result of all the mask hoarding and scalping. They should've recommended home made masks a lot sooner rather than flat out saying masks in general don't work. But honestly, I don't think that would've prevented people from hoarding medical grade masks, it would've probably just fueled it even more, people are greedy, just look at the toilet paper situation.

That begs the question why hospitals were sourcing their PPE from Walmart, Shoppers, Amazon, etc. (or at least competing for the same suppliers) to begin with.

And if that was the case, the government could have easily diverted all of the stock from store shelves to hospitals.

You think that's crazy? Check this out:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6858818/coronavirus-china-united-front-canada-protective-equipment-shortage/

[Caboclo]

https://youtu.be/eMbfZPqU3xc

AHHAHAHAHAH check out the comments section in this video.

[PoundTown]

https://youtu.be/eMbfZPqU3xc

AHHAHAHAHAH check out the comments section in this video.

That is one self righteous dude right there, yikes.

[execoftheyear]

People were clearing stocks off shelves, ordering ridiculous amounts online and even scamming people with their marked up prices or flat out stealing peoples' money. I even remember reading articles about people stealing masks at hospitals. I agree, they shouldn't have lied about masks not working. It was a horribly thought out panic move as a result of all the mask hoarding and scalping. They should've recommended home made masks a lot sooner rather than flat out saying masks in general don't work. But honestly, I don't think that would've prevented people from hoarding medical grade masks, it would've probably just fueled it even more, people are greedy, just look at the toilet paper situation.

That begs the question why hospitals were sourcing their PPE from Walmart, Shoppers, Amazon, etc. (or at least competing for the same suppliers) to begin with.

And if that was the case, the government could have easily diverted all of the stock from store shelves to hospitals.

You think that's crazy? Check this out:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6858818/coronavirus-china-united-front-canada-protective-equipment-shortage/

and this
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/mask-wars-coronavirus-outbidding-demand

[Andrew_M08]

https://youtu.be/eMbfZPqU3xc

AHHAHAHAHAH check out the comments section in this video.

Trudeau is a clown. Lots of virtue signalling with very little action.

[Brinbe]

You know who the true clowns are when you say something like 'Virtue Signalling' unironically...

the 4chan incels run rampant on here and it's really nauseating. could you chuds please support another team?

[GQStylin]

Largely non-lethal? 1 million+ people worldwide have died in 7 months. I know you're just going to downplay the number because there are a few billion people in the world but you are grossly oversimplifying things. There's no need for that. 1 million people is still a lot of people...and it would mean even more to you if it were you or one of your loved ones who died.

1 million people dying from a virus and counting isn't nothing and I'm certainly not saying its nothing, but the thing is why is a covid death so much more significant and special than people dying from various other causes every single day? About 150,000 people die of various causes daily in the world and yet for people like you, its the covid deaths that have your upmost attention while some 49,000 people dying from cardiovascular diseases or 26,000 dying from various cancers or almost 11,000 people dying from respiratory diseases everyday around the world and that never gets the daily coverage that covid infections and deaths do.

The point is lets keep some perspective and understand that while covid is quite contagious its very far from being a world killing virus and there are many other things out there that kill many more humans on a daily basis than covid that we ignore and also don't shutdown the world for.

And your idea of just isolating long term care homes and everyone else going on with their lives? Once again...oversimplifying things.

1) How do you think people in nursing homes and long term care facilities got covid? It got brought in from the outside world. Where in the outside world? Family gatherings, restaurants, weddings in banquet halls. How else did these people get it? Infected staff members who live outside of these institutions.

It really IS that simple to isolate long term care homes if you implement a proper plan. If you test health care workers who work in these homes daily or every other day or something along those lines then you will find out very quickly if they've become infected and you can remove them from the home and tell them to quarantine. If a patient in these homes becomes infected then you isolated them from other patients and give them the care that they need.

If you find out that outside visitors are bringing the virus into the homes then you stop the visits or at least limit the number of people to a few close family members who have to be tested and come back negative before being allowed to enter. Simple procedures like these along with having enough PPE and other resources available to those homes is enough to minimize the spread among long term care facilities again.

Heck if you want to take really strong measures then why not simply have the workers stay longer in the home with their patients rather than going home everyday? Like have the worker stay for a week or two continuously in the home with the people they're caring for after they've tested negative for the virus and then the chances of the virus spreading becomes minimal when they're not going to and forth from home to work and in between. There was a long term care home in France where the workers isolated with their patients for like 1-2 months straight and they suffered zero virus deaths as a result because they were almost completely self-contained.

The bottom line is you don't need to shutdown society and destroy people's lives to limit the spread to vulnerable people and you'd have to be insane to think that's a viable longterm plan to keep doing so until an effective treatment is developed and becomes widely available to everyone in the world.

2) Guess what...seniors and vulnerable people don't just live in nursing homes and long term care facilities. That is just a portion of the vulnerable population overall. I'd say the majority of the vulnerable population live outside those institutions...and most likely live in their own homes where they still have to interact with the outside world. Some of the vulnerable in the outside world live alone...some live in a house with several generations of family including the 20 year old grand kids who do stupid things to put their grandparents' lives at risk.

You're right the majority of seniors don't live in long term care facilities and guess what? They DID NOT die by the thousands as a result of coming into contact with the outside world. Again I'll point out that there are almost 3 million seniors in Ontario and outside of LTC facilities, only about 800-900 seniors died in the entire province OUT OF 3 MILLION. So NO people potentially bringing home the virus to grandma and grandpa DID NOT result in the death of thousands and thousands of seniors outside of LTC facilities probably because many if not most of them were at least decently healthy enough to survive getting infected unlike those that are much weaker and need to live in nursing homes that provide around the clock care.

When you're in poor enough health that you can't even cook your own meals or take a shower without help, then you're in pretty bad condition and you're likely to die by anything compared to seniors who are capable of doing those basic things. So please I wish people like you and all our experts and politicians would stop with the 'well you're going to spread it to grandparents' guilt tripping crap to keep people scared of the virus when its been shown seniors in the general population aren't dying by the tens of thousands after all these months.