Possible reasons for the Lowry S&T hold up (Powell, WCS from DAL for Dragic)

[gerrit4]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

People need to relax with trading Lowry at the deadline. I am almost sure Philly did not want him due to his 30M demands, and they did not want to rent him for a few months. That is why they got Hill. They also clearly overvalued Simmons so no trade was possible. They clearly did not want him now either.

Miami also went for Oladipo at the deadline. Lakers did not want to give THT and we probably did not want Schroeder.

What did you want Masai to do if noone wanted to give anything of value for Lowry. Not many teams want to pay a 35yo PG 30Mx3.

As for Dragic maybe er keep him, Maybe we trade him in season, maybe we keep his rights next year if Dallas does not bite. Maybe another team needs him later. He can play alongside FVV and Flynn IMO and mentor the young ones like Flynn. If somehow we make the playoffs (unlikely) he might help make some noise. We will have his Bird rights, no?

Right. I just heard KOC say that we "could have had Duncan Robinson and Precious at the deadline." As if missing out on paying Duncan Robinson $90 Million was some sort of privilege. I think he's okay, but I don't think anyone is losing sleep over not having Duncan Robinson.

[canz55]

Exactly.

I don't understand the frustration and anger being dolled out over an FA market that ultimately had nothing we wanted nor needed,

Some people feel that if they're not complaining about every move that our FO makes, that the rest of us might forget that they're smarter than everybody else, or something?

I made this point in another thread. Like who has agreed to a contract that we'd actually want on this team, that we "missed out" on?
Only one poster replied, and it was: "oh but what about Birch, why isn't he signed yet?". Now it appears a deal is in the works. I really don't see what we could've done better in FA so far that would satisfy both our future flexibility desires, as well as player development.

And I'm not limiting this to just RealGM posters. Lewenberg, Murphy, Doug and the rest of the Toronto media has been moaning and groaning about this lack of action too.

I was listening to Doug on McGowan's podcast today and he's actually giving a positive spin on everything while saying the team is a mid-playoff seed.

I agree with him.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

[djsunyc]

if we found out that we traded kyle in a s&t for dragic and a late 1st and then proceeded to draft achiuwa with the pick, would that be more digestible? b/c that's what happened.

[canz55]

This Lowry stuff is extremely small potatoes. You have to have a serious agenda to be teeth gnashing over this stuff. They accommodated him for his service, and they intend to build a statue around him. For their trouble they get Dragic and Achiuwa back. Maybe Achiuwa ends up a serviceable bench big, maybe not. He's an extra part right now. Maybe Dragic turns into something else, maybe he's bought out. The cost is not participating in an underwhelming FA market.

Exactly.

I don't understand the frustration and anger being dolled out over an FA market that ultimately had nothing we wanted nor needed,

So one of the main selling points of the GTJ for Norm deal was GTJ's small cap hold which would allow the Raptors to be players in free agency.

There was no reason to deal Lowry for "pennies" on the dollar because worst case the Raptors would have cap flexibility if he walked

Now it's no big deal the Raptors are capped out and received fewer assets than they would have at the deadline because this FA class sucks?

Seems like this is just an attempt to justify poor asset management.

Which UFA did you want or thought the squad could use that we didn't end up getting because of our "poor asset management"?

I'm not being sarcastic either, I really want to know.

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[MavCarter]

Why do people keep calling us a young team? Our two leaders are 27 and in their primes.

We don’t have an up and coming young star like many teams. Barnes is a complete unknown.

OG is a good young piece but don’t think anyone would label him a star.

This team is fighting for the playoffs but my guess is 11-12 seed.

Being fourth for a couple days for some reason makes everyone believe that’s what we are. The season has ups and downs.

We’re much closer to terrible than we are to good.

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

[djsunyc]

Why do people keep calling us a young team? Our two leaders are 27 and in their primes.

We don’t have an up and coming young star like many teams. Barnes is a complete unknown.

OG is a good young piece but don’t think anyone would label him a star.

This team is fighting for the playoffs but my guess is 11-12 seed.

Being fourth for a couple days for some reason makes everyone believe that’s what we are. The season has ups and downs.

We’re much closer to terrible than we are to good.

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now?

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

[phanman]

Well that is YOUR perspective Courtside... You used to be a pretty balanced guy... I've noticed you've gotten much more aggressive over the past couple years? You're not normally the attacking guy, you okay?

I'm no more aggressive or attacking now than before... ask around and there are enough people who don't like me. It's more because I I don't suffer fools gladly, or have much patience for trolly contrarians and/or posters with obvious agendas to hate on the team/org/etc... There has been a huge increase in both over the last 3-5 years here. Many are duplicate accounts that RGM has no willingness to clean up, which is why you see me a lot less as well.

Otherwise I'm as balanced and positive as ever

Well, I've never been in a rift with you & as you can see, I am not some recent duplicate account. I've paid my dues and earned my right to speak my piece, in a respectful manner. If you feel my perspective is purposefully being contrarian, or has an agenda behind it, I ask you to be that rationale balanced guy I have typically come to know, and make your case. Don't resort to cheap one-line attacks, that's sinking to the depths of the members you have seen an increase of and despise.

I'll admit, from your posts, you and I do differ in our opinion regarding the Raps a fair bit, but I always respected the level of detail you went with explaining your argument. As a result, I have always taken the time to engage in reading your content.

Anyways, I still believe what I believe regarding the Lowry S&T... If Precious is all our return for taking on a 19.5m in salary for a player in Dragic, who we don't want, & would seem has little value on the trade market, then we got ripped off in comparison to other S&T's that have taken place this year. Achiuwa better be AMAZING if we are willing to make a 19.5m additional investment to get him.

Glad you are doing alright!

I wouldn't say we don't want him, the organization is just doing their due diligence with the time provided prior to the deals being officially consummated. We are exploring his trade value and if we don't like what is out there the team I'm sure the front office is perfectly okay with Dragic playing for us in the first half of the season and moving him at the deadline where his value will only increase. It's not like we filled the giant hole of Lowry's departure with anybody else. Malachi may be ready to take the reigns but the goal of team is to be competitive next season, so it'll be good to have that quality depth.

[Parataxis]

Exactly.

I don't understand the frustration and anger being dolled out over an FA market that ultimately had nothing we wanted nor needed,

Some people feel that if they're not complaining about every move that our FO makes, that the rest of us might forget that they're smarter than everybody else, or something?

I made this point in another thread. Like who has agreed to a contract that we'd actually want on this team, that we "missed out" on?
Only one poster replied, and it was: "oh but what about Birch, why isn't he signed yet?". Now it appears a deal is in the works. I really don't see what we could've done better in FA so far that would satisfy both our future flexibility desires, as well as player development.

And I'm not limiting this to just RealGM posters. Lewenberg, Murphy, Doug and the rest of the Toronto media has been moaning and groaning about this lack of action too.

Look, if *I* was the GM, I'd trade Siakam and FVV for 8 unprotected 1sts, and then I'd sign Kawhi for the MLE, trade Barnes for AD, and get CP3 to sign for a one year plus team option.

Clearly our FO are useless for not doing these obvious things that no other team could have possibly done. I'm so smart.

[Steelo Green]

Why do people keep calling us a young team? Our two leaders are 27 and in their primes.

We don’t have an up and coming young star like many teams. Barnes is a complete unknown.

OG is a good young piece but don’t think anyone would label him a star.

This team is fighting for the playoffs but my guess is 11-12 seed.

Being fourth for a couple days for some reason makes everyone believe that’s what we are. The season has ups and downs.

We’re much closer to terrible than we are to good.

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now?

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

I mean it’s easy to post similar ages when forgetting the fact that our 1-2 are not even close to how good Kyle was.

Demar is about equal to Pascal.

You can’t just post a bunch of players and ages as though that makes the players equal. There’s no Kyle on this team - the catalyst to 50 wins year and out.

This season will open a lot of eyes.

[Mark_83]

Does Dragic have a no-trade clause? If not just take him and tell Dallas to pay up or kick rocks.

Well, he has been traded to Toronto...

Well the deal hadn't gone through and people were acting like he had a say so I figured the deal was contingent on his going to Dallas.

[phanman]

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now?

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

I mean it’s easy to post similar ages when forgetting the fact that our 1-2 are not even close to how good Kyle was.

Demar is about equal to Pascal.

You can’t just post a bunch of players and ages as though that makes the players equal. There’s no Kyle on this team - the catalyst to 50 wins year and out.

This season will open a lot of eyes.

If you think this team is the 11th-12th seed this upcoming season you're going to be in for a pleasant(?) surprise. With the team presumably returning back to Toronto, your discounting how much of a impact that is going to make on the floor.

Our leaders may be 27yo, but that isn't old by any stretch of the imagination. Taking the average age of our core 7 guys(age @ start of season): Barnes(20), Precious(22), Trent(22), Malachi(23), OG(24), Pascal(27), and Fred(27) it equals out to 23.57. I mean if you want to be picky and include Yuta(27), Boucher(28) and Birch(29) it's still only 24.9. For reference, OKC was the youngest NBA team last season at 23.4.

That is why we are labelled as a young team.

[Federalies]

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now?

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

I mean it’s easy to post similar ages when forgetting the fact that our 1-2 are not even close to how good Kyle was.

Demar is about equal to Pascal.

You can’t just post a bunch of players and ages as though that makes the players equal. There’s no Kyle on this team - the catalyst to 50 wins year and out.

This season will open a lot of eyes.

I’d tend to say Pascal is better than DD given the high end D, rebounds and assists, the scoring would be a wash! DD is a much better passer now but not then.

I’d also suggest that FVV is better positioned than Lowry was after the Rudy trade given his playoff/championship experience and near allstar level last year (folks forget that FVV was almost an allstar this past year and considered one of the “Snubs”).

All this to say, I’d suggest FVV and Siakam are closer to pre-peak Lowry and DD than folks give them credit. I’d also take this team (OG/Trent/Barnes/Boucher etc) and coach over the post Rudy trade team any day of the week!

[ontnut]

Some people feel that if they're not complaining about every move that our FO makes, that the rest of us might forget that they're smarter than everybody else, or something?

I made this point in another thread. Like who has agreed to a contract that we'd actually want on this team, that we "missed out" on?
Only one poster replied, and it was: "oh but what about Birch, why isn't he signed yet?". Now it appears a deal is in the works. I really don't see what we could've done better in FA so far that would satisfy both our future flexibility desires, as well as player development.

And I'm not limiting this to just RealGM posters. Lewenberg, Murphy, Doug and the rest of the Toronto media has been moaning and groaning about this lack of action too.

I was listening to Doug on McGowan's podcast today and he's actually giving a positive spin on everything while saying the team is a mid-playoff seed.

I agree with him.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

Maybe I just took this tweet out of context and it was more tongue in cheek.

"Doug Smith: Raptors
@SmithRaps
·
Aug 3
Raptors just announced they've waived Rodney Hood, DeAndre' Bembry and Paul Watson
Hardly surprising but, see, they *are* doing something!"

The other two though...they're definitely not being tongue in cheek.

Mid-playoff seed is if literally everything works out, best case scenario. I have my doubts.

[S.W.A.N]

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now? /

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

I mean it’s easy to post similar ages when forgetting the fact that our 1-2 are not even close to how good Kyle was.

Demar is about equal to Pascal.

You can’t just post a bunch of players and ages as though that makes the players equal. There’s no Kyle on this team - the catalyst to 50 wins year and out.

This season will open a lot of eyes.

Fvv can be a Lowry if he doesn’t stagnate.
OG is arguably more valuable than any player not name Lowry on that old team


.that said, east is stacked this year so lottery again next year is very possible. And not a bad outcome as long as we have strong players development

[ontnut]

Some people feel that if they're not complaining about every move that our FO makes, that the rest of us might forget that they're smarter than everybody else, or something?

I made this point in another thread. Like who has agreed to a contract that we'd actually want on this team, that we "missed out" on?
Only one poster replied, and it was: "oh but what about Birch, why isn't he signed yet?". Now it appears a deal is in the works. I really don't see what we could've done better in FA so far that would satisfy both our future flexibility desires, as well as player development.

And I'm not limiting this to just RealGM posters. Lewenberg, Murphy, Doug and the rest of the Toronto media has been moaning and groaning about this lack of action too.

Look, if *I* was the GM, I'd trade Siakam and FVV for 8 unprotected 1sts, and then I'd sign Kawhi for the MLE, trade Barnes for AD, and get CP3 to sign for a one year plus team option.

Clearly our FO are useless for not doing these obvious things that no other team could have possibly done. I'm so smart.

Parataxis for GM please! Masai can go do his GOA stuff he's asleep at the wheel anyway and makes horrible trades and signings.

[Los_29]

Why do people keep calling us a young team? Our two leaders are 27 and in their primes.

We don’t have an up and coming young star like many teams. Barnes is a complete unknown.

OG is a good young piece but don’t think anyone would label him a star.

This team is fighting for the playoffs but my guess is 11-12 seed.

Being fourth for a couple days for some reason makes everyone believe that’s what we are. The season has ups and downs.

We’re much closer to terrible than we are to good.

Lowry was the same age as fvv/pascal when we traded calderon and handed him the keys. Is 27 supposed to be the new 35? lol

when we the north era started (after the rudy gay deal), we had

demar - 25
kyle - 27
jonas - 22
ross - 22

now?

fvv - 27
gtj - 22
og - 24
siakam - 27
barnes - 20

And Lowry had a breakout year once he was given the keys. Siakam is a better player than Derozan as well and our supporting cast is much better now that it was back then.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Exactly.

I don't understand the frustration and anger being dolled out over an FA market that ultimately had nothing we wanted nor needed,

So one of the main selling points of the GTJ for Norm deal was GTJ's small cap hold which would allow the Raptors to be players in free agency.

There was no reason to deal Lowry for "pennies" on the dollar because worst case the Raptors would have cap flexibility if he walked

Now it's no big deal the Raptors are capped out and received fewer assets than they would have at the deadline because this FA class sucks?

Seems like this is just an attempt to justify poor asset management.

Which UFA did you want or thought the squad could use that we didn't end up getting because of our "poor asset management"?

I'm not being sarcastic either, I really want to know.

Sent from my SM-G998W using RealGM mobile app

If Lowry left for nothing you are players for all the UFAs (Holmes, Norm, Fournier, THJ, Dinwiddie, etc.)

You also have room to work a S&T for Ball, Collins, Graham, Oubre, etc. If you had traded Lowry at the deadline you could have even used some of those assets in any potential S&T deal.

If you don't like ANY of these options and want to pivot into a full rebuild, suddenly you are available as a trade partner in all of these convoluted multi team trades or for teams looking to lessen their luxury tax bill.

[Alodar]

And Lowry had a breakout year once he was given the keys. Siakam is a better player than Derozan as well and our supporting cast is much better now that it was back then.

We also have a much better coach.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Still nothing? I assume Birch means we aren’t taking Powell (nor should we).

If I’m masai I’m letting dragic (assuming he doesn’t want to be here) sit at home all season until someone meets my price. If no one wants to offer anything of value no problem. Sign dragic next off-season. He will have a year off from basketball. I would not buy him out. If he wants to play he can play for us all year

[HumbleRen]

And Lowry had a breakout year once he was given the keys. Siakam is a better player than Derozan as well and our supporting cast is much better now that it was back then.

We also have a much better coach.

But we also have to factor in the scene. The east back then has never even close been as strong as this current Eastern Conference.