2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Psubs]

Looking at the options, I don't see value at #4. I think you're probably better off trading down a bit and getting an asset or two. Gotta hope someone is really high on someone though.

I don't know about that either. I think people are writing off the Thompson Twins a little too early.

I think they could solidify themselves in the Top 7 depending on how the workouts and combine go. Amen is a 1% athlete with elite passing chops.

Lets say you take Thompson at 4, is that better value than Wallace at 10 and a future lottery protected pick for example?

Ya, like say Thompson is Derozan and develops a sweet mid-range game, would rather draft a Jrue Holiday plus another pick.

[Rapsfan07]

Looking at the options, I don't see value at #4. I think you're probably better off trading down a bit and getting an asset or two. Gotta hope someone is really high on someone though.

I don't know about that either. I think people are writing off the Thompson Twins a little too early.

I think they could solidify themselves in the Top 7 depending on how the workouts and combine go. Amen is a 1% athlete with elite passing chops.

Lets say you take Thompson at 4, is that better value than Wallace at 10 and a future lottery protected pick for example?

Good question. I'd say it comes down to which Thompson you're talking about and what you think he can become.

Let's say you believe Amen can become a more athletic Dejounte Murray. Then I would say that is absolutely better value than Wallace and a mid-late first.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

The prospects who best fit my model are:

Scoot Henderson
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Marcus Sasser

Guys who fall outside of it but could conceivably overcome it because they show enough multidimensional ability:

Brandin Podziemski
Colby Jones
Jordan Hawkins
Bilal Coulibaly (needs to be stashed for 3 years)

and to a lesser extent Anthony Black

Guys who are risks or lack multidimensionality and/or efficiency:

Nick Smith Jr.
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Jett Howard
Terquavion Smith
Sidy Cissoko

edit: I moved Hawkins to the 2nd tier because I think the potential for high offensive output is so good that he can be a plus player with just a modest improvement defensively and to other areas of his game, but that improvement needs to occur.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I think the Raps are just going to take the best talent available regardless of current need.

Whomever they take likely won't contribute in a positive way next year anyways, so you might as well just take the best talent even it if it overlaps with the current roster.

BPA isn’t always the best strategy because if there’s a glut of that same position on your team then cannibalization occurs and everyone’s value at that spot takes a hit.

Like take Poeltl for example, he was added into our team and put everyone where they’re supposed to be. As a result the team experiences more success. As opposed to Scottie/Siakam who are both amazing and better players than Poeltl individually, but may not fit together well.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think Cason Wallace is going to be a solid starter but I don't see star potential with him.

He's really not elite at anything, which will make it tough for him to become an all-star level guy. He's a pretty safe pick though. Low bust potential.

That's what I thought at first as well. The more you closely pay attention to him the more you realize there's something more than that there. His mental makeup and defense are elite characteristics to me.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I hear all that. I've seen Sidy play in person and what I liked about him most was his size and passing. Dude is absolutely huge and he does have an incredible knack for passing the ball. But that's honestly about it. I wasn't blown away by him. At least Scoot has elite athleticism, burst and speed.

This team, both now and in the future, needs scoring - preferably from all three levels. Right now, I'd probably take Bufkin over Cissoko... I'd probably even take Jones over Cissoko too and we don't even have an additional first rounder. Both of those guys also shoot the three better than Pascal did at the same age and better than Boucher does now. They both average more assists as well, albeit in a worse league and not as flashy as Cissoko is.

Again, I think it's because I'm prioritizing guards who can score from 3 levels and both those guys do it better than Sidy does.

I'm pretty adamant about us needing a player or players with the following qualities for our team as it stands:

-Capable of playing PG or SG (true SG with the ability to cover NBA guards and closeout well on the perimeter, not "insert Scottie Barnes at SG and watch him get cooked" PF who the Raps will tout as a switchable defender who will get burned by agile and fluid NBA guards)

-Capable of eventually hovering around 40% from downtown as a volume 3 point shooter in the NBA w plus defense OR capable of having a base FG% of 46%+ and getting to the line 6+ times a game because of ability to absorb contact and finish w plus defense OR elite defensive potential mixed with a more moderate projection say 36% from downtown and being able to get to the line 4+ times a game. Of course the ideal here is to find eventual 3 level efficiency with great %s from 2pt 3pt and FTArate+%

-Must currently show a fair degree of competency as a passer and with AST/TO ratio.

-Must currently shoot 75%+ from the line.

-Must currently average at least 1 steal per 36.

Sounds like a superstar to me lol

There can be lots of guys who can shoot well on volume 3s who aren't superstars with most of those looks coming within the flow of an offense, all I ask is that they also show defensive and passing chops.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think Sidy grew and is getting used to the new body. I think he'll be a big "guard" like Scottie. Raptors should keep adding jumbo creators to corner the market. Franz Wagner didn't "look" too special either.

With Bufkin, I guess he could be the next Anfernee Simons or Jordan Poole, but I don't want to pay those guys $30 million per year. For a small market team, you can't add those players that will take up too much cap space. Just sign Eric Gordon to the full MLE.

They don't seem like similar types of players. Cissoko is likely a big wing/linker. Bufkin is probably more of a bench guard. He's slender and will likely be hunted on defense. Cissoko is going to be a switchable player to some degree.

[Psubs]

I think Sidy grew and is getting used to the new body. I think he'll be a big "guard" like Scottie. Raptors should keep adding jumbo creators to corner the market. Franz Wagner didn't "look" too special either.

With Bufkin, I guess he could be the next Anfernee Simons or Jordan Poole, but I don't want to pay those guys $30 million per year. For a small market team, you can't add those players that will take up too much cap space. Just sign Eric Gordon to the full MLE.

They don't seem like similar types of players. Cissoko is likely a big wing/linker. Bufkin is probably more of a bench guard. He's slender and will likely be hunted on defense. Cissoko is going to be a switchable player to some degree.

That's my point. Cissoko grew up a PG/SG but is now the size of a wing.

[Yallbecrazy]

I think the Raps are just going to take the best talent available regardless of current need.

Whomever they take likely won't contribute in a positive way next year anyways, so you might as well just take the best talent even it if it overlaps with the current roster.

So you think Dereck Lively is an option? I think he would definitely have a chance of being BPA when we pick, put I wouldn't even touch him unless someone wants to give us a late 1st for Koloko.

[WuTang_CMB]

Raps likely going guard or wing this draft. Don't see another big being drafted. Seems like they will groom Koloko and be patient with him.

Assuming Hendricks/Cason are gone by 15 and it's likely.... 2 way prospects will always be the target. They will double down on this strategy. Cidy / Rupert / Colby / are up there. Hawkins would be nice since we have such a need.

[Syd-TK3]

As we drop in the draft order and potentially make the play in my main options are no longer looking possible.

So 15-20 I like Maxwell Lewis,
I like Rupert and Whitehead but they are too much of a project to make sense drafting with this team

[Yallbecrazy]

The prospects who best fit my model are:

Scoot Henderson
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Marcus Sasser

Guys who fall outside of it but could conceivably overcome it because they show enough multidimensional ability:

Brandin Podziemski
Colby Jones
Jordan Hawkins
Bilal Coulibaly (needs to be stashed for 3 years)

and to a lesser extent Anthony Black

Guys who are risks or lack multidimensionality and/or efficiency:

Nick Smith Jr.
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Jett Howard
Terquavion Smith
Sidy Cissoko

edit: I moved Hawkins to the 2nd tier because I think the potential for high offensive output is so good that he can be a plus player with just a modest improvement defensively and to other areas of his game, but that improvement needs to occur.

Can I ask why you are low on Cissoko? He seems far superior to Coulibaly and his advanced stats were better than Scoot's.

[ArthurVandelay]

I think Cason Wallace is going to be a solid starter but I don't see star potential with him.

He's really not elite at anything, which will make it tough for him to become an all-star level guy. He's a pretty safe pick though. Low bust potential.

Jrue Holiday just put up 51 points.

He's got a long way to go to become Jrue. That's probably best case scenario.

Absolutely…14 NBA seasons to go!

But their physical profile is eerily similar and Wallace has a slight statistical edge on their one year of college, but even their stats are eerily similar too.

[Yallbecrazy]

Hendricks, Dick, Wallace, Podziemski, Cissoko. Those are really the only guys I want us to draft. Not sure they will all be successful, but I will have a lot of confidence if our front office drafts one of them.

[DreamTeam09]

It's looking like Siddy will be our pick as I think we'll be picking in the 15-18 range and I believe he's the most raptor like player to be available in the that range. Cason would obviously be the pick but I don't think he makes it to 15-18

Agreed.

I think take Sidy, re-sign FVV (can trade him later) sign and trade Trent for a late 1st pick (that they are drafting for us) and filler.

Late 1st - TJD, Bufkin, Sasser, Leonard, Podziemski, Terquavion, Colby Jones, Max Lewis, Whitehead, Strawther.

If end up with one of those with a pick 25-30, I'm cool.

I think we'll probably end up somewhere around 13-14. If that is the case and both Hendricks and Wallace are off the board (as I imagine they will be), no need to take Sidy there. No need to take him at all, really.

We should be able to trade back with Brooklyn for 21 and 22. There, I would probably take Jones and Bufkin.

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of dealing OG either.

You don't think we are going to make the playoffs?

[WuTang_CMB]

Agreed.

I think take Sidy, re-sign FVV (can trade him later) sign and trade Trent for a late 1st pick (that they are drafting for us) and filler.

Late 1st - TJD, Bufkin, Sasser, Leonard, Podziemski, Terquavion, Colby Jones, Max Lewis, Whitehead, Strawther.

If end up with one of those with a pick 25-30, I'm cool.

I think we'll probably end up somewhere around 13-14. If that is the case and both Hendricks and Wallace are off the board (as I imagine they will be), no need to take Sidy there. No need to take him at all, really.

We should be able to trade back with Brooklyn for 21 and 22. There, I would probably take Jones and Bufkin.

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of dealing OG either.

You don't think we are going to make the playoffs?

If we lose the play in - we go back into the lottery. its possible

[Dalek]

The prospects who best fit my model are:

Scoot Henderson
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Marcus Sasser

Guys who fall outside of it but could conceivably overcome it because they show enough multidimensional ability:

Brandin Podziemski
Colby Jones
Jordan Hawkins
Bilal Coulibaly (needs to be stashed for 3 years)

and to a lesser extent Anthony Black

Guys who are risks or lack multidimensionality and/or efficiency:

Nick Smith Jr.
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Jett Howard
Terquavion Smith
Sidy Cissoko

edit: I moved Hawkins to the 2nd tier because I think the potential for high offensive output is so good that he can be a plus player with just a modest improvement defensively and to other areas of his game, but that improvement needs to occur.

The guys you have listed are all interesting and the first two ranks are players that I would consider as hybrids. They would be like Scottie Barnes, in that you could put them on a NBA floor and they would be productive in some capacity from day one. Their high floor does negate their high ceiling where they could reach a high level. The only questionable ones are Bufkin, who kind of had a late run, and is not super proven, and Sasser who is a bit older and you wonder if he slots more as a smaller combo guard.

The player in our range who stands out is Anthony Black. Despite the lack of three pointers made and shot creation, he just looks like the next Dyson Daniels. He is a floor general and the defense is elite, while he has a knack for drawing fouls at a high rate and and can finish given his size. He isn't a guy who stands around when he doesn't have the ball and can cut and make plays anywhere on the court. Maybe he amounts to a Ben Simmons, but with his competitiveness he can be better than Ben.

I like that he is a five-star recruit and outshone Nick Smith Jr. and Ricky Council for the year. Arkansas was a weird offensive team with zero spacing, but Black kind of surpassed expectations with his effort and motor. There is one clip where I see the pro potential is at the 1:06 he is tracking Jordan Hawkins and he blasts past two screens and closes so fast that Hawkins is forced to have give up the ball once he has this big defender in his grill. Toronto is going to love a guy like that and think they can develop his shot in time:

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[WuTang_CMB]

As we drop in the draft order and potentially make the play in my main options are no longer looking possible.

So 15-20 I like Maxwell Lewis,
I like Rupert and Whitehead but they are too much of a project to make sense drafting with this team

Max lewis got destroyed defensively second half of the year. His numbers took a beating too.

I can see the appeal though

[DreamTeam09]

Damn I just looked at Jordan Hawkins, he's also another player we could desperately use and he might've just jumped to #1 on my Raptor Big board. Will he be available in the 15-18 range? He's like a smoother more athletic GTJ, which is exactly something we can use.

[ItsDanger]

Key factor in who they take will be which of the top 6 isn't here next season. If they retain all 6, this pick won't play much.