Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[HangTime]

Scottie doesn't need to be a #1 option. We have IQ, Gradey, and RJ who are showing they can get buckets.

Let him focus on defense, playmaking, and intangibles. Kid has shown he can take over in the 4th, let the others do the cooking in quarters 1-3. It's not in the kids DNA to be an aggressive scorer, he's a pass first point forward in the mold of Scottie Pippen.

That's what makes him a perfect first option. Being the lead decision maker, like a Magic meets Pippen.

But Pippen didn't get a long enough stretch to be the main guy.

Like Scottie could be 2nd or 3rd in scoring, and average 13 assists. while being the #1 option, which is the lead decision maker.

But if it comes down to something like needing "4th quarter Scottie" that we've seen before, he can do that to.

Only that scottie is a very bad decision maker. Yes sometimes he has good streches with good passes, but overall he makes bad decisions as a playmaker. He is better playing off the ball, and only get back if he is about to score or in the flow of the offense, but not initiating plays.

Just to underscore my point:

He has 6 AST to 4 TO per game, which isnt great. And pretty much all of thos TOs where due to bad decision making.

Sure, but look at who he's been playing with.

Darko is testing guys outside their comfort zone, with very little to non-existent spacing.
Guys are left opened, which packs the attention onto him, so the passing lanes get more congested, but he's still "making the play."

If Everyone gets healthy, the attention on his drops, and the decision making will be the same, with less congestion.

There is so much good going on right now (outside of opening night), regardless of the 1-5 record.

I'm just saying to be patient.

[Wise80]

Until I see him consistently break his man down and have the defense shift, or back his man down and make the defense shift, I just don't see how he's going to be a number 1 or 2 option on a good team. His mentality needs to change and so do his abilities.

I see him as more of an off ball guy who is going to be good at taking advantage of when the defense is compromised.

[Shakril]

That's what makes him a perfect first option. Being the lead decision maker, like a Magic meets Pippen.

But Pippen didn't get a long enough stretch to be the main guy.

Like Scottie could be 2nd or 3rd in scoring, and average 13 assists. while being the #1 option, which is the lead decision maker.

But if it comes down to something like needing "4th quarter Scottie" that we've seen before, he can do that to.

Only that scottie is a very bad decision maker. Yes sometimes he has good streches with good passes, but overall he makes bad decisions as a playmaker. He is better playing off the ball, and only get back if he is about to score or in the flow of the offense, but not initiating plays.

Just to underscore my point:

He has 6 AST to 4 TO per game, which isnt great. And pretty much all of thos TOs where due to bad decision making.

Sure, but look at who he's been playing with.

Darko is testing guys outside their comfort zone, with very little to non-existent spacing.
Guys are left opened, which packs the attention onto him, so the passing lanes get more congested, but he's still "making the play."

If Everyone gets healthy, the attention on his drops, and the decision making will be the same, with less congestion.

There is so much good going on right now (outside of opening night), regardless of the 1-5 record.

I'm just saying to be patient.

I am tired of excuses for SB. We are talking about mistake HE made, not someone else. And he makes plenty mistakes, because he makes bade decisions. This has nothing to do with whom he plays, but how he plays.

[MiamiSPX]

You guys are creating problems where they don't exist (yet). We did not trade for Barnes. We didn't pass over anyone better in order to draft him. Even if you like Mobley more (fair), or Cade (LOL), they were drafted ahead of him so there was nothing we could do there.

It's fair to debate whether Scottie gets there or not, but some of you lament this over and over and over again. Even if he doesn't pan out as hoped, having him right now under this contract has not prevented the team from doing anything different. Durant has done sweet F all in the payoffs the last several years so not including Barnes in a trade for him was the right move. We've also seen how Dame plays when he is not happy, and he made it very clear he would not have been happy in Toronto. So again, not including Barnes for Dame was absolutely the correct call.

I'll be the first to drive him to the airport if he doesn't become that guy AND his presence/contract is hampering us from improving the team. But you all know Masai, he is patient to a fault and will not move Scottie until it is crystal clear that he won't be a franchise player. We are not there yet. I still hold out hope he can get there, but do lean towards my new-ish opinion that not a single guy from that draft will be a franchise player (in the vein that we define that term).

[Raps in 4]

You guys are creating problems where they don't exist (yet). We did not trade for Barnes. We didn't pass over anyone better in order to draft him. Even if you like Mobley more (fair), or Cade (LOL), they were drafted ahead of him so there was nothing we could do there.

It's fair to debate whether Scottie gets there or not, but some of you lament this over and over and over again. Even if he doesn't pan out as hoped, having him right now under this contract has not prevented the team from doing anything different. Durant has done sweet F all in the payoffs the last several years so not including Barnes in a trade for him was the right move. We've also seen how Dame plays when he is not happy, and he made it very clear he would not have been happy in Toronto. So again, not including Barnes for Dame was absolutely the correct call.

I'll be the first to drive him to the airport if he doesn't become that guy AND his presence/contract is hampering us from improving the team. But you all know Masai, he is patient to a fault and will not move Scottie until it is crystal clear that he won't be a franchise player. We are not there yet. I still hold out hope he can get there, but do lean towards my new-ish opinion that not a single guy from that draft will be a franchise player (in the vein that we define that term).

Dame and KD are washed. KD has also done **** all in the playoffs his entire career. Unless he has a top-10 all-time player to carry him, he's not going to lead a team anywhere. KD isn't Kawhi. Dame was never even at KD's level, so that trade was always beyond silly to even entertain.

[Senbonzakura]

Barnes is averaging an inefficient 20ppg.

Barnes hasn't broken .100 WS/48 since his rookie season. Nearly 40 players average 20+ppg in the NBA this season and most of them do it more efficiently than he does

Barnes has no reliable jump shot, under 30% from 3 AND under 30% from 16-23 feet.

This is not a #1 option on a serious team in the NBA. We need to get one so he can be the #2 or #3 guy.

[Senbonzakura]

Year later this is still right.

[Quattro]

Year later this is still right.

You're one of those guys who trashed Lowry back in 2017 and 18 right?

[junot111]

Year later this is still right.

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

It's funny reading some of these replies, I don't know about other fanbases but ours sure doesn't like to live in reality. I'm sure those same people who were clamoring for scottie have moved on to putting unrealistic expectations on to cmb

[tsherkin]

Year later this is still right.

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

Honestly, I think it was very likely even before the draft, and with each season, he's just reinforced the notion.

We should be embracing what he's good at, not deluding ourselves as to his potential ceiling.

[DreamTeam09]

Year later this is still right.

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

It's funny reading some of these replies, I don't know about other fanbases but ours sure doesn't like to live in reality. I'm sure those same people who were clamoring for scottie have moved on to putting unrealistic expectations on to cmb

no other fanbases actually like their players and actually like ours too. There's even fans of teams clamoring to trade for RJ while hes the worst NBAer around here, either way i'll take 24yr old scottie over a lot of the players this board clamors over. Heck you guys wanted to trade Pascal for Kobe bufikn n adrian griffen & said it was a fireable offense not pursuing that deal....

[tsherkin]

no other fanbases actually like their players and actually like ours too. There's even fans of teams clamoring to trade for RJ while hes the worst NBAer around here, either way i'll take 24yr old scottie over a lot of the players this board clamors over. Heck you guys wanted to trade Pascal for Kobe bufikn n adrian griffen & said it was a fireable offense not pursuing that deal....

It's important to remember the difference between not believing Scottie has the abiliyt to be a #1 option superstar, and not actually appreciating what he does bring. The kind of player the OP is talking about is exceedingly rare. And volume scoring with efficiency is very important. As is floor spacing, both especially so in the modern league. Scottie's a net-positive offensive player, if not super strongly so. He has some value to us, especially because we were so bad on O this past season. But as we try to improve from here, we're going to need more than incompetent scoring coupled to ok offensive rebounding and some decent but replaceable playmaking. So we'll have to hope that this new environment with Quick back and BI inbound allows us to reshuffle our usage patterns and strategy enough and it impacts Scottie enough for him to become a bit more viable.

[junot111]

Year later this is still right.

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

It's funny reading some of these replies, I don't know about other fanbases but ours sure doesn't like to live in reality. I'm sure those same people who were clamoring for scottie have moved on to putting unrealistic expectations on to cmb

no other fanbases actually like their players and actually like ours too. There's even fans of teams clamoring to trade for RJ while hes the worst NBAer around here, either way i'll take 24yr old scottie over a lot of the players this board clamors over. Heck you guys wanted to trade Pascal for Kobe bufikn n adrian griffen & said it was a fireable offense not pursuing that deal....

Easy with the strawman. Being realistic about a player's limitations is not the same as not being supportive, or understanding their value. I like scottie as a utility player in an athletic draymond with slightly more scoring role. And I certainly never wanted the ATL package for Pascal.

You say you like our players, but how's that gonna hold up when you expect scottie to be a franchise player and he doesn't deliver? Are you still gonna "like" him and support him when he doesn't live up to those lofty expectations?

[junot111]

Year later this is still right.

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

Honestly, I think it was very likely even before the draft, and with each season, he's just reinforced the notion.

We should be embracing what he's good at, not deluding ourselves as to his potential ceiling.

Still, you can understand the optimism for a 20-21 year old ROTY to reach those levels given that he exceeded predraft expectations. But after 2 years of no progression and not even able to crack 20ppg as a first option, it's just blind delusion to still maintain those expectations

[tsherkin]

Still, you can understand the optimism for a 20-21 year old ROTY to reach those levels given that he exceeded predraft expectations. But after 2 years of no progression and not even able to crack 20ppg as a first option, it's just blind delusion to still maintain those expectations

I don't look at that rookie season as any kind of major expectations exceeded, personally. He was a lower volume guy who was below league average efficiency and still exhibited all the flaws talked about. That's... not impressive to me.

[raincityraptors]

Saw this thread come up and it seems we know the answer.

If both Barnes and BI are healthy, BI in most situations is the #1 Option on offense. He has already carried that load for a Western Conference team and he's entering his prime.

BI is also a star with a huge following of fans of his own because of how many people believe in his skills regardless of the team he's on.

BI is so underrated because of recency bias. He is going to remind a lot of people why he's a star in this league.

I am going to be feeling really good when the ball is in his hands in the clutch. I can live with the results. He's a special player.

[DreamTeam09]

It was obvious this time last year too but the poll results and replies in this thread suggested otherwise.

Honestly, I think it was very likely even before the draft, and with each season, he's just reinforced the notion.

We should be embracing what he's good at, not deluding ourselves as to his potential ceiling.

Still, you can understand the optimism for a 20-21 year old ROTY to reach those levels given that he exceeded predraft expectations. But after 2 years of no progression and not even able to crack 20ppg as a first option, it's just blind delusion to still maintain those expectations

If your expectations was for Barnes to be a scorer to begin with then you're evaluating the game wrong, he didn't win ROY for being a scorer, nor did this franchise draft him with those expectations, like none of this is new to anyone or at least it shouldn't be. Mgmt has put scorers around. The issue is you're lower on him because of it which shouldn't be the case. You called me a strawman in another post & referred to him as a more of a Daymond + more scoring, which is a top out I don't think anyone would/should complain about, to me that is franchise player no? I mean Daymond himself is a franchise player for his franchise... who was surrounded by scorers or shooters to be more specific.

[DreamTeam09]

Saw this thread come up and it seems we know the answer.

If both Barnes and BI are healthy, BI in most situations is the #1 Option on offense. He has already carried that load for a Western Conference team and he's entering his prime.

BI is also a star with a huge following of fans of his own because of how many people believe in his skills regardless of the team he's on.

BI is so underrated because of recency bias. He is going to remind a lot of people why he's a star in this league.

I am going to be feeling really good when the ball is in his hands in the clutch. I can live with the results. He's a special player.

Now does that make Barnes less of a player in your eyes?

[tsherkin]

If your expectations was for Barnes to be a scorer to begin with

It should be abundantly clear that this is not the case.

The issue is you're lower on him because of it which shouldn't be the case.

No, I'm lower on him IN THE ROLE HE'S BEEN DEPLOYED IN, very clearly and well-delineated over years of time. I have also repetitiously noted that I appreciate his defense and am quite happy with that element of his game. I have said so again, and again, and again, even in this thread. Not sure why you're failing to pick up on that, other than intentionally ignoring things at this point.

People talk about his scoring, so I also talk about his scoring. This thread is literally ABOUT HIS SCORING, so it's being discussed. I routinely commend his defense, discuss his utility as a rebounder and the value which can be extracted from his passing in certain ways even as we reduce his shooting volume. Your entire post here has very little to do with my approach to Scottie.

I mean Daymond himself is a franchise player for his franchise... who was surrounded by scorers or shooters to be more specific.

No he isn't, but he IS an important part of their success. Their franchise player is Steph, but obviously Draymond is another critical element of their team.

[VanWest82]

Scottie still has the chance to become a version of his namesake Scottie Pippen as more of an offensive #2, defensive #1. I think he has a long ways to go in both regards but maybe if he improves a lot across the board it's possible.