Breaking: Rogers Aquires Bell Stake In MLSE

[Tripod]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

[douggood]

outside of all this talk about ed rogers on this forum/speculations etc, has there been any interesting news/tidbits about the sale since the initial news?

let me answer my own question
Does Bell’s TSN have a lock on Raptors and Maple Leafs games for 20 years? Experts say it doesn’t
https://www.thestar.com/business/does-bells-tsn-have-a-lock-on-raptors-and-maple-leafs-games-for-20-years/article_b2eb1f52-76ab-11ef-9e41-a315f1744032.html

Similarly, Bell could lose the national rights to Raptors games after the current licensing deal expires.

That’s because the NBA owns the national rights and while it currently has a licensing deal with MLSE, which then sublicenses to Rogers and Bell in a 50-50 split, that deal will expire after the 2025-26 season.

If MLSE successfully negotiates a new agreement with the NBA, Bell will be able to continue to sublicense the national rights from MLSE, while licensing the rights to regional games at “market rates.”

Even then, setting that market value can be a headache, said former MLSE CEO Richard Peddie, who helped negotiate the sale of the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan’s stake in the company to Bell and Rogers for $1.32 billion in 2012.

[Dalek]

Having Rogers as the main boss is going to be skating on thin ice for Masai. It is a good time for Masai to move on. He is paid a lot and not producing and likely hurting the team. He did it for 13 years which is good enough.

Now the question is whether Rogers becomes like Dolan in NY and gets in the way too much. I do take hope that they see how Leon Rose has built that team up. We need Rogers hands off and give it to a former agent who can be a power broker or someone fresh who understands the players and game. Not some CBA expert like Bobby.

[Pointgod]

This news probably means Masai is out. I think our front office needed a shakeup, but I don’t trust Nepo baby **** Ed Rogers to make good decisions. Best case scenario he’s like Dolan and brings in a good team, then gets the hell out of the way but not holding my breath.

It took Dolan two decades, and a near constant stream of fan vitriol towards him, to get to this point (and even then, I'd argue he lucked out into this FO being competent). Ed still has fans in this city (just read through this thread).

Anyway, it's amazing how similar Ed and Dolan's stories are. Both their daddies owned cable companies. Both of them feuded with their families because they're cheap, petty bastards. Both have owned sports teams for two decades. Both are terrible at their jobs but love to be the centre of attention anyway. Both are friends with Trump.

It’s the classic billionaire nepo baby delusion. Handed everything on a silver platter but believe they built everything themselves and are much smarter than they really are. Trump, Dolan, Ed there’s a common trend there where that type of thinking works when you run a monopoly but not so much in a hyper competitive industry

All the posters that didn’t want to do a rebuild should be happy when Rogers comes in and trades all our draft capital for Brandon Ingram and locks us into mediocrity….

[PushDaRock]

Thanks for confirming that Masai did in fact try to intentionally lose games.

I never once said we tanked the ENTIRE year, nobody has in fact. Only that we did in fact tank.

Congratulations are in order then, your point is completely obvious and meaningless because literally every team in the NBA sits veterans and plays their young players development minutes at the end of a season where it's obvious they won't make the playoffs.

Not really shocking then that Masai didn't intentionally sabotage his own team's draft odds this past season by demanding Darko push for wins after Scottie and Yak went down with season ending injuries.

Which makes the original statement that Masai never intentionally tried to lose games incorrect, thanks for confirming.

[douggood]

Having Rogers as the main boss is going to be skating on thin ice for Masai. It is a good time for Masai to move on. He is paid a lot and not producing and likely hurting the team. He did it for 13 years which is good enough.

Now the question is whether Rogers becomes like Dolan in NY and gets in the way too much. I do take hope that they see how Leon Rose has built that team up. We need Rogers hands off and give it to a former agent who can be a power broker or someone fresh who understands the players and game. Not some CBA expert like Bobby.

agent who became GM, for every leon rose, bob myers, there is rob pelinka, arm tellem
for ever cba nerd gm there are presti, morey and there are arthur korknosi (bulls) and many more
for every coach who became gm, you have brad stevens and also phil jackson

there is no one blueprint for a executive, coach etc

also considering leon rose is the bell of the ball right now, if not for brunson, mavs etc this would not be case
rose pre brunson drafted toppin 6th(also quickley), signed fournier, rose, burks, noel, kemba walker etc etc

[Michael Bradley]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

[JB7]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

[ciueli]

Thanks for confirming that Masai did in fact try to intentionally lose games.

I never once said we tanked the ENTIRE year, nobody has in fact. Only that we did in fact tank.

Congratulations are in order then, your point is completely obvious and meaningless because literally every team in the NBA sits veterans and plays their young players development minutes at the end of a season where it's obvious they won't make the playoffs.

Not really shocking then that Masai didn't intentionally sabotage his own team's draft odds this past season by demanding Darko push for wins after Scottie and Yak went down with season ending injuries.

Which makes the original statement that Masai never intentionally tried to lose games incorrect, thanks for confirming.

Again, literally every team in the entire NBA does this, they play young players to develop them at the end of the season instead of running veterans into the ground to get meaningless wins and worsen their draft position. That doesn't equate to Masai tanking a whole season or even a significant part of a season at any point in his career as a front office executive, which was your original position in spite of the backtracking you're doing now as you realize that is an indefensible position that isn't supported by the facts.

[Tor_Raps]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

Yup... this is why even when I HEAVILY criticize Masai's performance from 2020 onwards, I always say "BUT I wouldn't want him fired" for the exact reasons you stated.

[PushDaRock]

Congratulations are in order then, your point is completely obvious and meaningless because literally every team in the NBA sits veterans and plays their young players development minutes at the end of a season where it's obvious they won't make the playoffs.

Not really shocking then that Masai didn't intentionally sabotage his own team's draft odds this past season by demanding Darko push for wins after Scottie and Yak went down with season ending injuries.

Which makes the original statement that Masai never intentionally tried to lose games incorrect, thanks for confirming.

Again, literally every team in the entire NBA does this, they play young players to develop them at the end of the season instead of running veterans into the ground to get meaningless wins and worsen their draft position. That doesn't equate to Masai tanking a whole season or even a significant part of a season at any point in his career as a front office executive, which was your original position in spite of the backtracking you're doing now as you realize that is an indefensible position that isn't supported by the facts.

Where did I backtrack? Please quote me.

[Fairview4Life]

Congratulations are in order then, your point is completely obvious and meaningless because literally every team in the NBA sits veterans and plays their young players development minutes at the end of a season where it's obvious they won't make the playoffs.

Not really shocking then that Masai didn't intentionally sabotage his own team's draft odds this past season by demanding Darko push for wins after Scottie and Yak went down with season ending injuries.

Which makes the original statement that Masai never intentionally tried to lose games incorrect, thanks for confirming.

Again, literally every team in the entire NBA does this, they play young players to develop them at the end of the season instead of running veterans into the ground to get meaningless wins and worsen their draft position. That doesn't equate to Masai tanking a whole season or even a significant part of a season at any point in his career as a front office executive, which was your original position in spite of the backtracking you're doing now as you realize that is an indefensible position that isn't supported by the facts.

We traded OG and Pascal and the end of December and Mid January respectively. That's giving up a significant portion of the season. And that's if we don't think they transitioned to development before that.

[ciueli]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

[Fairview4Life]

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

That's the whole problem, though, he's not really trying to build up the asset base, he's trying to get the team into the play-in and even the playoffs the next two seasons. If he's successful in this, it means weakening the asset base, not strengthening it as the team winds up drafting outside the lottery for the foreseeable future, not playing young players in real games in order to win now, and potentially even trading away future draft picks to fill more holes in the short term. The Kelly Olynyk trade is evidence of all three of those points I just made (trading picks to win now, veteran taking minutes from prospects, improving win/loss record that means worse draft position).

I'm not saying this approach can't work, it can if the right deal comes along or the right players are drafted with later picks, but it's a difficult plan to succeed with because it's harder to get star talent later in the draft and players who are ready to win now are more expensive than young players on rookie deals leaving less financial flexibility to fill out the starting lineup and bench.

The pick he traded for Olynyk and Agbaji was a veyr late 1st. One of the picks you say is not a good asset.

[ciueli]

Which makes the original statement that Masai never intentionally tried to lose games incorrect, thanks for confirming.

Again, literally every team in the entire NBA does this, they play young players to develop them at the end of the season instead of running veterans into the ground to get meaningless wins and worsen their draft position. That doesn't equate to Masai tanking a whole season or even a significant part of a season at any point in his career as a front office executive, which was your original position in spite of the backtracking you're doing now as you realize that is an indefensible position that isn't supported by the facts.

We traded OG and Pascal and the end of December and Mid January respectively. That's giving up a significant portion of the season. And that's if we don't think they transitioned to development before that.

Those weren't tank moves, if you read what I posted you would understand this. OG was traded for two players who could play right away and fill key holes in the Raptors roster, getting a 2 for 1 this way was designed to improve the roster in the short term, not as a tank move. When you have a desperate need at PG and SG trading an SF for starting quality PG and SG isn't a tank move.

The Pascal trade was the trade Masai didn't want to make but was forced to given the commitment to Scottie at the 4 going forward, we've rehashed this on this board a million times by now, Pascal wasn't coming back on a max contract. The only tangible offer I heard at the time aside from Indiana's picks heavy offer was Sacramento shopping Harrison Barnes + filler (probably Davion Mitchell and Vezenkov who we eventually got anyway), I don't blame Masai for taking the picks over Barnes as I don't see Barnes as any kind of difference maker even for the couple of seasons he likely has left before he's out of the league.

And then he did the Kelly trade, a player they likely thought would help more than Barnes anyway, and it only cost them the worst of the picks they got from Indiana.

If you think those are tanking moves I don't know what else to say. They were designed to make the best of a bad situation and keep the team competitive, it's obvious.

[Fairview4Life]

If you think the team wasn't tanking last season for the better part of the year, just calling it "development", then I also don't know what to say. We are at an impasse. Somehow trading OG for young players with potential around Scottie's age is trying to win more games? Pushing for the play in? Seems a whole lot more like just rewriting the narrative to stay hating to me, but ok.

[Tor_Raps]

If you think the team wasn't tanking last season for the better part of the year, just calling it "development", then I also don't know what to say. We are at an impasse. Somehow trading OG for young players with potential around Scottie's age is trying to win more games? Pushing for the play in? Seems a whole lot more like just rewriting the narrative to stay hating to me, but ok.

Whatever the hell this team is trying to do, they are doing it horribly. It's hilarious seeing most people argue about semantics when the reality is the end product sucks lol.

We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season.

[Fairview4Life]

We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season.

Yes, this is what many of the complainers would like to have happen. So I am not sure what they are complaining about.

[Scase]

Some of you forget how bad things were pre-Masai.

18 years....1 playoff series win....6 playoff series....4 seasons over .500
VS
11 years....9 playoff wins...16 playoff series....2 seasons under .500 with one being in Tampa
Oh...and a Championship

Better hope Bobby stays and learned something

The issue is, Masai isn't 2013-19 Masai right now, he's 2020-24 Masai. If the Raptors were to replace him, they'd be replacing a clearly inferior executive than the one who was a top 3 exec in the league prior to 2020. It's not like the Raptors are churning out 2nd round picks that turn into starters, or hitting on their mid/late 1st round picks anymore. They probably do require some type of shift in their front office (whether Masai or scouting) as their success rate in developing talent from 2013-19 vs today is night and day.

From a sentimental standpoint, I'm a Masai guy and am rooting for him to build this team back up. He might not get the chance to, but if that's the case then it would be far more justifiable to replace him now than it would have been a few years ago.

You do realize the huge distinction between pre- and post-championship, right?

They had to sacrifice a lot of their assets to obtain that championship, which has resulted in the teams poor performance 2 years post championship. But he has still managed to obtain some key pieces to build around again (i.e. Barnes). Give him a few more years to build the asset base back up.

Sorry but this excuse doesn't fly any more.

No one was complaining about the stuff sent out to win a chip. People are complaining about the stuff sent out and the actions performed SINCE then.

We didn't lose last years pick because of the chip, we didn't lose FVV for nothing because of the chip, we didn't get a bad return on Siakam because of the chip, we didn't have multiple (and continued) declining seasons because of the chip, we didn't trade a pick for Ochai/KO because of the chip, we didn't re-sign KO because of the chip, we didn't pick up the option on a guy who JUST had knee surgery instead of trading him last year because of the chip.

The assets sent out are not why the team is where it's at, the unwillingness to move players at appropriate timings and doubling down on a flawed and low ceiling core is why the team is where it's at. Masai deserves credit for all the incredible work done pre chip, just as much as he deserves all the incredibly poor work done post chip.

Excuses for the bad moves is no different from chalking the good moves up to nothing more than luck.

[Tor_Raps]

We are still hoping to land a star level prospect while also needing to improve the overall depth of the team. We just went through a painful season and expect many more painful seasons if we don't luck out via the lottery this upcoming season.

Yes, this is what many of the complainers would like to have happen. So I am not sure what they are complaining about.

The "complainers" wanted this to happen for the Wemby draft. Instead we started the tank in a crappy draft when we didn't even have control of our own pick.

Trust me, there's plenty of complaining to do when the end results are what we've seen the past few years. Just hoping Masai pulls more of the OG/Mcdaniels type trades and hits home runs on most of his draft picks as a throwback to when he was actually earning his salary lol.