Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[RoteSchroder]

Ppl here need to wake up, we’ll be a play-in team and Silver isn’t rewarding us like with the Hawks cause we don’t need help bringing in revenue.

[ConSarnit]

we need to get rid of Poeltl ASAP but I don't think Masai has the balls to do it

i would also see if we could build RJ's value to make him tradeable to guys with Vivek mentality and then move him if an injury doesn't occur

long story short Masai doesn't have the balls to tank and then wonders why an scottie-iq-rj "core" is getting knocked out of the playoffs early until 2031.

of course who knows, maybe jakobe walter is actually michael jordan

Yeah, I think either Poeltl or RJ needs to be moved to ensure a proper tank. Just need someone to offer actual value for one of them. Wouldn't be shocked if it's RJ just because we drafted some 2s and this sort of build makes sense:

Poeltl - 2026 1st
Barnes - (Barrett trade return)
2025 1st - Agbaji
Dick - Walter
Quickley - MLE

Basically replace Barrett with a wing from this coming draft, follow it up with the Poeltl successor in the 2026 draft. Maybe someone else develops into a rotation guy (Chomche, Mogbo, Shead) at some point.

I think it's tougher to see us moving Poeltl and getting a decent young center back.

If any of Barnes/Quickley/Poeltl miss time we should be bad enough that we don't have to chase a pick. You need a center to not suck, Barnes is by far out best player and I think Quickley is key to being competitive because the sheer lack of offensive punch from a Mitchell/Shead/Agbaji/Brown/Walter backcourt for even 20-30 games or so screams 25-30 win season and a top 6-7 draft slot.

I think it's a tough choice between RJ and Poeltl. If we really want to tank it needs to be Poeltl imo. The whole thing collapses without his defense. I think we could somewhat withstand losing RJ and not be in the dregs of the league. I think we are stuck in a catch-22 if it's just going to be a 1 year tank. If we want to be somewhat competitive in 2026 we'd need Poeltl (or a Poeltl level C). If we bring in a top 5 pick and don't have Poeltl we're going to be pretty bad again in 2026, which defeats the purpose of a 1 year tank.

Basically we'd need to trade Poeltl to make ourselves bad but then we'd need to acquire another C in the off-season to make ourselves respectable in 2026. Seems pretty convoluted. Trading Poeltl puts us in the tank for the next 2 years which doesn't seem like it has much support, even from tWo.

A process of: trade Poeltl for 1st -> tank in 2025 -> re-trade Poeltl 1st (or future 1st) for Poeltl-level C doesn't seem likely.

[ConSarnit]

Ppl here need to wake up, we’ll be a play-in team and Silver isn’t rewarding us like with the Hawks cause we don’t need help bringing in revenue.

Have you looked at our first 25 games?

We play 22 games against teams that won 45+ games last year.

[causal_fan]

Listened to parts of Bill Simmons podcast previewing the coming season and the 3 participants just eviscerated the Raptors - from Ujiri and the FO to the roster, especially to the contracts (esp. Quickley's) given out on a team lacking talent - They all enthusiastically took the under (29 1/2) - this is good news for the tank but not so much for the future.

[Chandan]

Listened to parts of Bill Simmons podcast previewing the coming season and the 3 participants just eviscerated the Raptors - from Ujiri and the FO to the roster, especially to the contracts (esp. Quickley's) given out on a team lacking talent - They all enthusiastically took the under (29 1/2) - this is good news for the tank but not so much for the future.

They were puzzled by why masai gave out the IQ contract when there weren't any competitors to signing him. IMO it's not as bad as they make it out to be, but his salary isn't exactly a winning by margins move.

[Scase]

we need to get rid of Poeltl ASAP but I don't think Masai has the balls to do it

i would also see if we could build RJ's value to make him tradeable to guys with Vivek mentality and then move him if an injury doesn't occur

long story short Masai doesn't have the balls to tank and then wonders why an scottie-iq-rj "core" is getting knocked out of the playoffs early until 2031.

of course who knows, maybe jakobe walter is actually michael jordan

Yeah, I think either Poeltl or RJ needs to be moved to ensure a proper tank. Just need someone to offer actual value for one of them. Wouldn't be shocked if it's RJ just because we drafted some 2s and this sort of build makes sense:

Poeltl - 2026 1st
Barnes - (Barrett trade return)
2025 1st - Agbaji
Dick - Walter
Quickley - MLE

Basically replace Barrett with a wing from this coming draft, follow it up with the Poeltl successor in the 2026 draft. Maybe someone else develops into a rotation guy (Chomche, Mogbo, Shead) at some point.

I think it's tougher to see us moving Poeltl and getting a decent young center back.

If any of Barnes/Quickley/Poeltl miss time we should be bad enough that we don't have to chase a pick. You need a center to not suck, Barnes is by far out best player and I think Quickley is key to being competitive because the sheer lack of offensive punch from a Mitchell/Shead/Agbaji/Brown/Walter backcourt for even 20-30 games or so screams 25-30 win season and a top 6-7 draft slot.

Definitely makes the most sense, but there isn't a reality in any universe, where MU trades RJ before 2 years of evaluation. That said, if RJ continues to produce at the same level of the last 32 games, that would be a prime sell high moment.

RJ isn't as good as he was here last year, and he isn't as bad as he was in NYC. A system looks to have a major impact on his production, which is good for us.....right now. But if we have to go into a different direction, he's not as flexible as other core pieces, trading him at a peak would be a great move, but it won't happen, Jak is more likely.

But yeah, we'll need one of them to either miss some significant time, or be traded for us to get as bad as we'd need to be for a top pick. Trading RJ, then picking up Ace would be the dream, but super risky and pretty unrealistic. If we somehow luck into getting Ace, then RJ should be traded same day lol.

[ItsDanger]

Listened to parts of Bill Simmons podcast previewing the coming season and the 3 participants just eviscerated the Raptors - from Ujiri and the FO to the roster, especially to the contracts (esp. Quickley's) given out on a team lacking talent - They all enthusiastically took the under (29 1/2) - this is good news for the tank but not so much for the future.

Some would describe their outlook for the team as negative. But if you want Raps to secure a top pick and rebuild properly, then this assessment is a positive.

[Scase]

Listened to parts of Bill Simmons podcast previewing the coming season and the 3 participants just eviscerated the Raptors - from Ujiri and the FO to the roster, especially to the contracts (esp. Quickley's) given out on a team lacking talent - They all enthusiastically took the under (29 1/2) - this is good news for the tank but not so much for the future.

They were puzzled by why masai gave out the IQ contract when there weren't any competitors to signing him. IMO it's not as bad as they make it out to be, but his salary isn't exactly a winning by margins move.

I still think he's overpaid, but only by a few mil, so it's nothing crazy, but it's definitely not one of those "good value" contracts based on projected performance, it'll just be "alright". In the current cap era though, those few mil here and there are going to be what makes or breaks a team.

If the under is real, or even if we manage over at like 32 wins, we'll be going into 25-26 with about 99mil in salary going to 3 guys, out of 154mil total, for a 30win team. That's definitely not the fault of IQs contract alone, but having your core being guys on their 2nd contracts, eating up that much salary, for a sub .400 winning record is really bad.

[ConSarnit]

Listened to parts of Bill Simmons podcast previewing the coming season and the 3 participants just eviscerated the Raptors - from Ujiri and the FO to the roster, especially to the contracts (esp. Quickley's) given out on a team lacking talent - They all enthusiastically took the under (29 1/2) - this is good news for the tank but not so much for the future.

They were puzzled by why masai gave out the IQ contract when there weren't any competitors to signing him. IMO it's not as bad as they make it out to be, but his salary isn't exactly a winning by margins move.

I think it makes sense until someone comes out of the woodwork. IQ fits pretty good on a couple of teams that had cap space this summer like ORL or DET. IQ's deal also averages out to about 19% of the cap over it's lifetime. That's 3rd/4th starter money. By the 3rd year of his deal IQ won't even be paid in the top 20 for point guards. People are just having sticker shock and not realizing the cap is going to be over $200m by the end of IQ's contract.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

we need to get rid of Poeltl ASAP but I don't think Masai has the balls to do it

i would also see if we could build RJ's value to make him tradeable to guys with Vivek mentality and then move him if an injury doesn't occur

long story short Masai doesn't have the balls to tank and then wonders why an scottie-iq-rj "core" is getting knocked out of the playoffs early until 2031.

of course who knows, maybe jakobe walter is actually michael jordan

Yeah, I think either Poeltl or RJ needs to be moved to ensure a proper tank. Just need someone to offer actual value for one of them. Wouldn't be shocked if it's RJ just because we drafted some 2s and this sort of build makes sense:

Poeltl - 2026 1st
Barnes - (Barrett trade return)
2025 1st - Agbaji
Dick - Walter
Quickley - MLE

Basically replace Barrett with a wing from this coming draft, follow it up with the Poeltl successor in the 2026 draft. Maybe someone else develops into a rotation guy (Chomche, Mogbo, Shead) at some point.

I think it's tougher to see us moving Poeltl and getting a decent young center back.

If any of Barnes/Quickley/Poeltl miss time we should be bad enough that we don't have to chase a pick. You need a center to not suck, Barnes is by far out best player and I think Quickley is key to being competitive because the sheer lack of offensive punch from a Mitchell/Shead/Agbaji/Brown/Walter backcourt for even 20-30 games or so screams 25-30 win season and a top 6-7 draft slot.

Definitely makes the most sense, but there isn't a reality in any universe, where MU trades RJ before 2 years of evaluation. That said, if RJ continues to produce at the same level of the last 32 games, that would be a prime sell high moment.

RJ isn't as good as he was here last year, and he isn't as bad as he was in NYC. A system looks to have a major impact on his production, which is good for us.....right now. But if we have to go into a different direction, he's not as flexible as other core pieces, trading him at a peak would be a great move, but it won't happen, Jak is more likely.

But yeah, we'll need one of them to either miss some significant time, or be traded for us to get as bad as we'd need to be for a top pick. Trading RJ, then picking up Ace would be the dream, but super risky and pretty unrealistic. If we somehow luck into getting Ace, then RJ should be traded same day lol.

Masai's statue in sankofa square is going to say "we're still evaluating" and "i know the fathah"

[RoteSchroder]

Ppl here need to wake up, we’ll be a play-in team and Silver isn’t rewarding us like with the Hawks cause we don’t need help bringing in revenue.

Have you looked at our first 25 games?

We play 22 games against teams that won 45+ games last year.

We may go 10-20 (0.33) for our first 30 games. If we get healthy and go 0.40 the rest of the way with an easier schedule, that's 21-31. So around 31 wins in total.

If Gradey, Ochai, Scottie, RJ or IQ show real improvement and one of Shead/Davion can contribute, the outlook may be even better.

We need multiple players out for an extended period, like last year, for a real tank job where we finished the season 2-19..and even then we were only 6th worst.

[WhatsaTDot]

Ppl here need to wake up, we’ll be a play-in team and Silver isn’t rewarding us like with the Hawks cause we don’t need help bringing in revenue.

So we need to wake up to the fact that were a good enough team and that the NBA draft is rigged?

Sounds completely reasonable.

[bballsparkin]

If the Raptors finished this season and got the 7th pick I'd be pretty happy with that. In a draft like this, well you have 7th, and since the MU team has made some misses lately it would be huge for this FO. Curry went 7th you never know. It would mean they put the team in a good position to get into the top 4 also. DD went 9th that year. 9 has had some nice draft selections over the years. That was a damn good draft. Jrue Holiday went #17. Blake Griffin, and Harden. Raptors legends James Johnson, Tyler Hansbrough, DeMarre Carroll. Teague and Lawson. Patrick **** Beverly. Patty Mills, Rick Rubio, Brandon Jennings, Gerald Henderson and more. That's one of the better draft years right there.

edit: I missed Danny Green at 46th overall. I had to sign back in to fix that omission.

[mihaic]

I haven't seen much in terms of the top prospects yet. But I think we need badly a 1st option.

How many 1st option scorers are in the top 5?

I think Bailey and Harper are both 1st option based on the limited videos I seen. Who else?

[RoteSchroder]

Ppl here need to wake up, we’ll be a play-in team and Silver isn’t rewarding us like with the Hawks cause we don’t need help bringing in revenue.

So we need to wake up to the fact that were a good enough team and that the NBA draft is rigged?

Sounds completely reasonable.

Play-in while missing playoffs might be the worst possible outcome. Not sure how you consider that "good enough"

NBA draft sometimes being rigged isn't very outlandish. It's like the mafia admitting that they were fixing games through refs and no one in government or the NBA caring (except for a few players doing money signs every time there's a bad call).

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Masai might look at this right now like "i want khaman maluach for my own personal reasons" and seeing as how he's probably raw enough to be available in mid to late lotto he will use it as an excuse in his own mind to treadmill

[ATLTimekeeper]

I haven't seen much in terms of the top prospects yet. But I think we need badly a 1st option.

How many 1st option scorers are in the top 5?

I think Bailey and Harper are both 1st option based on the limited videos I seen. Who else?

It's tough to even predict who would be a first option. Look at the top 15 scorers in the NBA last year. I think maybe a little over a 3rd were first options on their previous team. Because of the nature of one and done's dominating the top of the draft, it's hard to tell the more important factor like how quickly can someone add skill.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

there are a few guys who demonstrate enough on ball wizardry and efficiency right now who appear more strongly as potential good 1st options

cooper flagg (strongest bet in the class)
kasparas jakucionis (mystery box with a small sample and positional size that suggests could end up being PG1 from class)

then there are a bunch of guys who could evolve into one

edgecombe (needs to follow the "learns how to harness his athleticism" path)
harper (needs to prove he can score efficiently)
bailey (needs to prove he can get to and score at rim and be an adequate passer)

traore is insanely high USG but there's a chance he just operates more as a facilitator and struggles to score, need better returns on his scoring efficiency to see that he's not going to be like young cade cunningham

then there are some far lesser bets and whoever opens eyes during the season and comes out of nowhere, usually a couple of guys

paul mcneil on NC State is a kid to keep an eye on

[ATLTimekeeper]

The first few months sort out of the pre-draft hype.

[Chandan]

If the Raptors finished this season and got the 7th pick I'd be pretty happy with that. In a draft like this, well you have 7th, and since the MU team has made some misses lately it would be huge for this FO. Curry went 7th you never know. It would mean they put the team in a good position to get into the top 4 also. DD went 9th that year. 9 has had some nice draft selections over the years. That was a damn good draft. Jrue Holiday went #17. Blake Griffin, and Harden. Raptors legends James Johnson, Tyler Hansbrough, DeMarre Carroll. Teague and Lawson. Patrick **** Beverly. Patty Mills, Rick Rubio, Brandon Jennings, Gerald Henderson and more. That's one of the better draft years right there.

edit: I missed Danny Green at 46th overall. I had to sign back in to fix that omission.

I remember we won some meaningless games in the last 10 games or so that year. We could have drafted higher and gotten curry, imagine that.