[Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m

[HumbleRen]

lol, guys don't just fall apart at 30. He could have injured his back in the exact same way at 22. He'll be fine.

Most big men do actually lol. The ones who are able to extend their career into their mid 30’s are the ones who can shoot the 3.

Just look at the big men in the east.

KAT is under 30.
Duren is under 30.
Okenga is under 30.
Wendell Carter is under 30.
Queta is under 30.
Bam and Kel Ware are under 30.
Jarrett Allen and Mobley are under 30.
Myles Turner is under 30.
Mitchell Robinson is under 30.

Andre Drummond is barely over 30 and he’s washed.
Poeltl is 30.

These are all of the big men of the playoff teams in the east right now. We got the 2nd oldest center who’s already peaked defensively years ago.

The center position is a young man’s game. It ain’t friendly to bigs who can’t play in space on defence or is unable to stretch the floor on offence.

KAT is the same age as Jak

This is also a pretty disingenuous argument because age alone isn't the biggest factor. Mileage plays a larger factor along with major injuries. Jak came into the league later than a lot of these guys and has less mileage on him with no real major injury issues. He's still under 14k mins played in his career.

Drummond is getting close to 25k mins played in his career in comparison.

Allen is at 16k mins, Turner is at 19k mins, Bam is at 18k mins, KAT at almost 23k mins.

Most of these vets you listed have more mileage on them than Jak.

You must of read too quickly and missed the part where I said bigs who can shoot age much better than the ones who can’t in their 30’s.

Kat would be our best shooter by a mile on this team. You shouldn’t use him as example ever to Poeltl lol.

Mileage doesn’t matter. Just look at the tape and advanced numbers. Poeltl’s defence has been in decline since his Spurs days. He was significantly more mobile playing in space back then. Even before the back injury, he hasn’t been able to move like his younger self since coming here.

[PushDaRock]

anyone here try to extend an aging center unnecessarily at overpay prices?

Myles Turner?

That move by Indiana was actually smart - they had cap space in that 2022/2023 season and they frontloaded Turner's contract extension into that cap space, so that his 2 year extension following 2022/2023 was at a below market aav.

Key Details of the Extension:
When: January 2023.
Term: Two years, through the 2024-25 season.
Value: $60 million total.
Renegotiation: Added $17.1 million to his 2022-23 salary, the largest renegotiation in NBA history at the time.

Was he a 30m a year player the last 2 seasons? Probably not?

[DelAbbot]

I still think IQ's contract is fine but boy oh boy, Poeltl's extension was a mistake.

It was so unnecessary, especially if Bobby had just paid a little bit to acquire some depth at C and invest in a prospect C.

[DelAbbot]

Myles Turner?

That move by Indiana was actually smart - they had cap space in that 2022/2023 season and they frontloaded Turner's contract extension into that cap space, so that his 2 year extension following 2022/2023 was at a below market aav.

Key Details of the Extension:
When: January 2023.
Term: Two years, through the 2024-25 season.
Value: $60 million total.
Renegotiation: Added $17.1 million to his 2022-23 salary, the largest renegotiation in NBA history at the time.

Was he a 30m a year player the last 2 seasons? Probably not?

He was paid about 20m a year last 2 seasons, for his age 28 and 29 seasons. And that was a very valuable contract for his production at those age.

Poeltl is about to get 27m a year for his age 32,33 and 34 seasons, and he's already having back problems, which are most likely recurring for big men.

[PushDaRock]

Most big men do actually lol. The ones who are able to extend their career into their mid 30’s are the ones who can shoot the 3.

Just look at the big men in the east.

KAT is under 30.
Duren is under 30.
Okenga is under 30.
Wendell Carter is under 30.
Queta is under 30.
Bam and Kel Ware are under 30.
Jarrett Allen and Mobley are under 30.
Myles Turner is under 30.
Mitchell Robinson is under 30.

Andre Drummond is barely over 30 and he’s washed.
Poeltl is 30.

These are all of the big men of the playoff teams in the east right now. We got the 2nd oldest center who’s already peaked defensively years ago.

The center position is a young man’s game. It ain’t friendly to bigs who can’t play in space on defence or is unable to stretch the floor on offence.

KAT is the same age as Jak

This is also a pretty disingenuous argument because age alone isn't the biggest factor. Mileage plays a larger factor along with major injuries. Jak came into the league later than a lot of these guys and has less mileage on him with no real major injury issues. He's still under 14k mins played in his career.

Drummond is getting close to 25k mins played in his career in comparison.

Allen is at 16k mins, Turner is at 19k mins, Bam is at 18k mins, KAT at almost 23k mins.

Most of these vets you listed have more mileage on them than Jak.

You must of read too quickly and missed the part where I said bigs who can shoot age much better than the ones who can’t in their 30’s.

Kat would be our best shooter by a mile on this team. You shouldn’t use him as example ever to Poeltl lol.

Mileage doesn’t matter. Just look at the tape and advanced numbers. Poeltl’s defence has been in decline since his Spurs days. He was significantly more mobile playing in space back then. Even before the back injury, he hasn’t been able to move like his younger self since coming here.

I was only making the point of mileage because you are saying his age matters so much and how it's a "young man's game" and then going off to list a bunch of guys in their late 20's who have played more mins than Jak.

You could make the same argument that the vets on your list aren't in their prime defensively either.

[Duffman100]

I think this all depends on,

How much of his play you think is impacted by his back?
Is the back a potential long term issue?

[HumbleRen]

KAT is the same age as Jak

This is also a pretty disingenuous argument because age alone isn't the biggest factor. Mileage plays a larger factor along with major injuries. Jak came into the league later than a lot of these guys and has less mileage on him with no real major injury issues. He's still under 14k mins played in his career.

Drummond is getting close to 25k mins played in his career in comparison.

Allen is at 16k mins, Turner is at 19k mins, Bam is at 18k mins, KAT at almost 23k mins.

Most of these vets you listed have more mileage on them than Jak.

You must of read too quickly and missed the part where I said bigs who can shoot age much better than the ones who can’t in their 30’s.

Kat would be our best shooter by a mile on this team. You shouldn’t use him as example ever to Poeltl lol.

Mileage doesn’t matter. Just look at the tape and advanced numbers. Poeltl’s defence has been in decline since his Spurs days. He was significantly more mobile playing in space back then. Even before the back injury, he hasn’t been able to move like his younger self since coming here.

I was only making the point of mileage because you are saying his age matters so much and how it's a "young man's game" and then going off to list a bunch of guys in their late 20's who have played more mins than Jak.

You could make the same argument that the vets on your list aren't in their prime defensively either.

I don’t think mileage matters as much as age. Especially with the PG and center position.


Can you name them the vets that you think fell off defensively btw?

[PushDaRock]

That move by Indiana was actually smart - they had cap space in that 2022/2023 season and they frontloaded Turner's contract extension into that cap space, so that his 2 year extension following 2022/2023 was at a below market aav.

Key Details of the Extension:
When: January 2023.
Term: Two years, through the 2024-25 season.
Value: $60 million total.
Renegotiation: Added $17.1 million to his 2022-23 salary, the largest renegotiation in NBA history at the time.

Was he a 30m a year player the last 2 seasons? Probably not?

He was paid about 20m a year last 2 seasons, for his age 28 and 29 seasons. And that was a very valuable contract for his production at those age.

Poeltl is about to get 27m a year for his age 32,33 and 34 seasons, and he's already having back problems, which are most likely recurring for big men.

Should we be counting the value of the total extension or just the last 2 seasons because they were able to frontload?

[PushDaRock]

You must of read too quickly and missed the part where I said bigs who can shoot age much better than the ones who can’t in their 30’s.

Kat would be our best shooter by a mile on this team. You shouldn’t use him as example ever to Poeltl lol.

Mileage doesn’t matter. Just look at the tape and advanced numbers. Poeltl’s defence has been in decline since his Spurs days. He was significantly more mobile playing in space back then. Even before the back injury, he hasn’t been able to move like his younger self since coming here.

I was only making the point of mileage because you are saying his age matters so much and how it's a "young man's game" and then going off to list a bunch of guys in their late 20's who have played more mins than Jak.

You could make the same argument that the vets on your list aren't in their prime defensively either.

I don’t think mileage matters as much as age. Especially with the PG and center position.


Can you name them the vets that you think fell off defensively btw?

I think none of them are really in their defensive prime right now.

Bam didn't make an All-NBA defensive team last year after making it 5 years in a row, probably some slippage there.

Allen anchors a Cavs D that hasn't been as elite last couple years.

KAT's never been a great defender and Turner has been mediocre there last few years too.

[LoveMyRaps]

I still think IQ's contract is fine but boy oh boy, Poeltl's extension was a mistake.

It was so unnecessary, especially if Bobby had just paid a little bit to acquire some depth at C and invest in a prospect C.

His durability, especially his back issues, are my biggest concern.

Can’t be paying such a big 28mil AAV up until he’s 34.

[HumbleRen]

I was only making the point of mileage because you are saying his age matters so much and how it's a "young man's game" and then going off to list a bunch of guys in their late 20's who have played more mins than Jak.

You could make the same argument that the vets on your list aren't in their prime defensively either.

I don’t think mileage matters as much as age. Especially with the PG and center position.


Can you name them the vets that you think fell off defensively btw?

I think none of them are really in their defensive prime right now.

Bam didn't make an All-NBA defensive team last year after making it 5 years in a row, probably some slippage there.

Allen anchors a Cavs D that hasn't been as elite last couple years.

KAT's never been a great defender and Turner has been mediocre there last few years too.

Bam has probably peaked defensively I agree but he’s going from like a top 5 defender to like a top 15 defender at worst. He’s still giving you great defence with 20/10 a night.

Cavs were a top 10 defence last year with Mobley winning DPOY. I think Allen is just fine.

Kat and Turner were never defensive guys. Their value is stretching the floor at the center position.

[720]

Trading for him with that first rounder was a mistake in the first place. We were in no position to do that. Plus he raised our floor but not our ceiling so it hurt our future draft picks as well.

[YogurtProducer]

Ah I disagree. Deandre Jordan was a legit rim deterrent. He’d be more than fine at his peak in today’s NBA. His rim deterrence and vertical spacing would pop even more now with all of the spacing and PNR offence we have in today’s NBA.

Jordan would be fine today. Jordan would not be making all-nba teams.

Derrick Lively and Deandre Ayton were able to be starting centers on legit finals teams. Deandre Jordan at his peak was much better than them.

Was it? Jordan was very limited, and propped up fairly heavily by playing with one of the GOAT PG's.

Poeltl will age fine on offence, it’s his defence I’m worried about. His defence peaked on the Spurs. He’s been more of a boon to us on offence than he has been on defence. The gap will only get wider on that end now that he’s 30.

Sure. I don't think it is going to be a massive dropoff. The last year of the deal might be a problem, but it is also non-guaranteed.

There is also no guarantee we keep him for the entire deal.

This isn’t a big deal if we can find a competent back up 7 footer but we can’t count on that with this FO.

You cant count on that for most FO's. Most backup 7 footers are horrible.

[HumbleRen]

Ah I disagree. Deandre Jordan was a legit rim deterrent. He’d be more than fine at his peak in today’s NBA. His rim deterrence and vertical spacing would pop even more now with all of the spacing and PNR offence we have in today’s NBA.

Jordan would be fine today. Jordan would not be making all-nba teams.

Derrick Lively and Deandre Ayton were able to be starting centers on legit finals teams. Deandre Jordan at his peak was much better than them.

Was it? Jordan was very limited, and propped up fairly heavily by playing with one of the GOAT PG's.

Poeltl will age fine on offence, it’s his defence I’m worried about. His defence peaked on the Spurs. He’s been more of a boon to us on offence than he has been on defence. The gap will only get wider on that end now that he’s 30.

Sure. I don't think it is going to be a massive dropoff. The last year of the deal might be a problem, but it is also non-guaranteed.

There is also no guarantee we keep him for the entire deal.

This isn’t a big deal if we can find a competent back up 7 footer but we can’t count on that with this FO.

You cant count on that for most FO's. Most backup 7 footers are horrible.

Detroit - Duren + Beef Stew
Knicks - KAT + Mitchell Robinson
Orlando - Wendell Carter Jr + Goga
Heat - Bam + Kel Ware
Cavs - Allen + Mobley
Hawks - KP + OO

Our playoff peers seem to be doing just fine with it lol.

[Tacoma]

Because this team without a competent C looks amazing. Oh ya, I forgot, we wanted to tank for all of the 2020's

This is such an unfair take though that just completely disregards context around that trade.

We were SEVEN games below .500 when we made the Poeltl trade, proceeded to get humiliated in the play in game. Devalued our 2023 pick, lost our 2024 pick and let FVV and Poeltl build their value during that cupcake schedule down the stretch of the season.

FVV got the bag and Poeltl got all the leverage over of us. Yay us. Despite all that, we still extended him this recent summer that pays him until 2030 when he’s already peaked age wise.

The team tried to go without a competent C, for a bit, and it led nowhere. They were waiting on Yak, because the Spurs were trying to max out the value they could get in a return. There were not that many decent C's available. And he was a player they trusted. They could not build a team around Scottie without a C.

And in terms of the 2023 draft pick, other than getting lucky in the draft for Wemby (which was not going to happen), who did they miss out on? Maybe Amen. Even then, he is a replica of Scottie. The 2024 draft was known to be weak, and they missed out on Edey? It is hard to build a successful team when you surround your young developing star with rookies...

Not having a starting C was one of Masai's post-2020 big blunders, but the wrong time to fix that blunder was at the 2023 trade deadline to try and make the playoffs from 7 games below .500 with your team buried in 10th place.

And if you recall, we tried hard to tank in 2024 in a failed attempt to be bottom 6 to keep our 2024 pick. If we're building around Barnes, Edey is more in line with Scottie's age and also the better fit with Scottie since he's not a black hole as a shooter like Poeltl. Edey also has good potential and if he isn't better than Poeltl today, he will be soon.

I really don't see much of a debate around whether or not we should've traded for Poeltl at 2023 trade deadline. The point of the trade was to make the playoffs that year and not only did we failed to do so, but we've failed to make the playoffs for every year since that trade.

[MiamiSPX]

I still think IQ's contract is fine but boy oh boy, Poeltl's extension was a mistake.

It was so unnecessary, especially if Bobby had just paid a little bit to acquire some depth at C and invest in a prospect C.

His durability, especially his back issues, are my biggest concern.

Can’t be paying such a big 28mil AAV up until he’s 34.

From what I have seen, I think many people (understandably) think the extensions starts next season, when it actually doesn't start until the 2027-28 season. That is the reason for our concern.

[TravisScott55]

Poeltl legit might be a bottom 5 starting center in the league right now

[kalel123]

Ah I disagree. Deandre Jordan was a legit rim deterrent. He’d be more than fine at his peak in today’s NBA. His rim deterrence and vertical spacing would pop even more now with all of the spacing and PNR offence we have in today’s NBA.

Jordan would be fine today. Jordan would not be making all-nba teams.

Derrick Lively and Deandre Ayton were able to be starting centers on legit finals teams. Deandre Jordan at his peak was much better than them.

Was it? Jordan was very limited, and propped up fairly heavily by playing with one of the GOAT PG's.

Poeltl will age fine on offence, it’s his defence I’m worried about. His defence peaked on the Spurs. He’s been more of a boon to us on offence than he has been on defence. The gap will only get wider on that end now that he’s 30.

Sure. I don't think it is going to be a massive dropoff. The last year of the deal might be a problem, but it is also non-guaranteed.

There is also no guarantee we keep him for the entire deal.

This isn’t a big deal if we can find a competent back up 7 footer but we can’t count on that with this FO.

You cant count on that for most FO's. Most backup 7 footers are horrible.

Detroit - Duren + Beef Stew
Knicks - KAT + Mitchell Robinson
Orlando - Wendell Carter Jr + Goga
Heat - Bam + Kel Ware
Cavs - Allen + Mobley
Hawks - KP + OO

Our playoff peers seem to be doing just fine with it lol.

Such a cop out to say "oh, it's a small ball league" or "other teams backups are horrible" when this mostly applies to bad teams only. Most of actual good teams have reverted to have more legit size not just at C but other positions as well. We are in the minority trying to cope with only one legit C and bunch of undersized forwards and puny/weak/limited shooting guards who get pushed around with ease by any decently sized wings.

[Jadoogar]

Trading for him with that first rounder was a mistake in the first place. We were in no position to do that. Plus he raised our floor but not our ceiling so it hurt our future draft picks as well.

Most people probably agree this was the original sin. It led to us not tanking in the Wemby draft, committing to a doomed core for lost season and losing value on FVV, Siakam and OG.

[kalel123]

Trading for him with that first rounder was a mistake in the first place. We were in no position to do that. Plus he raised our floor but not our ceiling so it hurt our future draft picks as well.

Most people probably agree this was the original sin. It led to us not tanking in the Wemby draft, committing to a doomed core for lost season and losing value on FVV, Siakam and OG.

I look at Walter and Dick and I get mad just thinking about this.