PG: BENCH MOB COMES UP HUGE!!!

[mihaic]

What youre saying is part of why we're a flawed team and Orlando's a better team. Suggs is literally their engine and just on a different level than Poeltl who is just an average role player.

We will see how things play out over a full season once both teams get fully healthy in a few weeks. Hope youre right but id bet a lot that you're not lol.

if Suggs is the engine to your team then your team is flawed just as much as our team is then. Crappy shooter & a decent to poor playmaker who's currently injury prone. He plays with grit but I wouldn't wanna be paying him 32mill & would rather have the 3pt shooting of IQ for the same price

Not a single rational person would take IQ over Suggs right now... youre better than this lol.

Suggs has a lot of what made Lowry great for us that cannot be quantified by basic stats. Hes still not a finished product.

Orlando laughs at that trade proposal.

[Tha Cynic]

Their missing pieces are MUCH better than our missing pieces. They also made an "all in" move, which is a big reason why theyre better right now. We shouldn't be insecure to admit other teams are better than us currently lol

Orlando is extremely overrated. They're in the same tier as us: you can order the tier as you like, but it's all the same - a bunch of above average teams with clear flaws that cap their ceiling at 2nd round fodder. I don't know why the media fell in love with this team and Paolo like they did. Paolo isn't even the best player on his own team.

Same thing with Atlanta. Never understood the love.

Orlando might not be a championship contender some said but they are definitely a level above us when healthy. Wagner has been their best player and Suggs is their engine... judging Orlando without them in the lineup is foolish. You go ask the General Board and it would massively favour Orlando.

The consensus would have said every team was better than the Raptors in 2019 playoffs too. The Raptors are always underrated so I'm not sure why we care about the General Board or what the consensus thinks. I think you are severely underrating the Raptors. The Magic aren’t a new team. We have seen them numerous times over the years with Wagner and Suggs too and they have always been overrated - especially Banchero.

I am 100% taking Suggs over IQ though lol

[pingpongrac]

Shead defends, Fred didn't, he was either injured or checked out.

Shead needs to work on a floater aside from 3pt practice

Saying Fred didn't defend is just a crazy thing to type out and hit submit

Did he defend the last year here? Saying he did is a crazy thing to type and hit submit. I am pretty sure you knew that.

22/23 FVV was clearly hobbled and he was still one of the better defenders at the PG position in the league. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

[YogurtProducer]

Any trade that ends up with Shead being our best PG isn’t a good trade for a serious team.

Big fan of Shead, but he’s an energy bench guard

A large contingent of this board wanted to punt FVV into the sun for his inefficient scoring and now they want to start a guy who is shooting 37% from the field.

Shead is not close to a starting level PG. I’d be surprised if he ever gets there based on his scoring woes. Fine player but thinking he can start is borderline crazy imo.

Shead defends, Fred didn't, he was either injured or checked out.

Shead needs to work on a floater aside from 3pt practice

lol okay. How has the narrative became FVV didn’t defend?

[YogurtProducer]

IQ hate is a bit overblown especially considering he was a big reason that they just beat the Warriors, 27 points and 5/10 from 3pt.....he just needs to be more consistent, don't want him to be a hot/cold player.

Moving Shead to starter makes sense if Raptors make a big trade to upgrade the center position...lets say they trade a IQ+Poeltl package. But then Raptors will need to fill the backup PG spot.

Any trade that ends up with Shead being our best PG isn’t a good trade for a serious team.

Big fan of Shead, but he’s an energy bench guard

you don't think Shead-RJ-Barnes-Ingram-AD could work? lets assume AD isn't injury prone

You can’t win when 4 starters aren’t threats from 3

[YogurtProducer]

Saying Fred didn't defend is just a crazy thing to type out and hit submit

Did he defend the last year here? Saying he did is a crazy thing to type and hit submit. I am pretty sure you knew that.

22/23 FVV was clearly hobbled and he was still one of the better defenders at the PG position in the league. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

It’s crazy how a guy who couldn’t defend, score, or playmaker managed to make an ASG and con Houston into a max deal

[Tripod]

Did he defend the last year here? Saying he did is a crazy thing to type and hit submit. I am pretty sure you knew that.

22/23 FVV was clearly hobbled and he was still one of the better defenders at the PG position in the league. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

It’s crazy how a guy who couldn’t defend, score, or playmaker managed to make an ASG and con Houston into a max deal

An ailing FVV couldn't defend Maxey.

That was back when a certain group said Maxey was just a dime a dozen SG.

[nikster]

A large contingent of this board wanted to punt FVV into the sun for his inefficient scoring and now they want to start a guy who is shooting 37% from the field.

Shead is not close to a starting level PG. I’d be surprised if he ever gets there based on his scoring woes. Fine player but thinking he can start is borderline crazy imo.

Shead defends, Fred didn't, he was either injured or checked out.

Shead needs to work on a floater aside from 3pt practice

lol okay. How has the narrative became FVV didn’t defend?

Seriously he was good as you can possibly expect for a player his size. Incredibly active hands, tons of deflections, could stay with
His man. did an incredible job chasing Curry around screens in the finals. Uniquely good at stripping the ball on a fast break. People have a distorted view of him from after his injuries but even then he wasnt bad.

[ConSarnit]

A large contingent of this board wanted to punt FVV into the sun for his inefficient scoring and now they want to start a guy who is shooting 37% from the field.

Shead is not close to a starting level PG. I’d be surprised if he ever gets there based on his scoring woes. Fine player but thinking he can start is borderline crazy imo.

Shead defends, Fred didn't, he was either injured or checked out.

Shead needs to work on a floater aside from 3pt practice

lol okay. How has the narrative became FVV didn’t defend?

Mihiac making a late push for “most idiotic post of the year”

[Los_29]

I was actually a big Orlando fan coming into the season. The Bane trade was outrageous and will hurt them in the future but on paper they looked like a really good team in a bad conference.

Unfortunately, Banchero still hasn’t changed despite adding a player like Bane that was supposed to open up the floor for him. Orlando should also be very worried about Suggs as well. He’s had a lot of injuries over his career. Orlando is a perfect example of why tanking never works. They did everything that tWo would want to do and yet have a middling, low-ceiling roster. Meanwhile the Spurs treadmill for years, finally gut their team, land Wemby, then they get lucky again in the next two years and land in the top 4 to get Castle and Harper. lol.

I still think it’s fair to put Orlando above us despite their injuries but obviously we have a better future given we have all of our picks.

[mdenny]

I was actually a big Orlando fan coming into the season. The Bane trade was outrageous and will hurt them in the future but on paper they looked like a really good team in a bad conference.

Unfortunately, Banchero still hasn’t changed despite adding a player like Bane that was supposed to open up the floor for him. Orlando should also be very worried about Suggs as well. He’s had a lot of injuries over his career. Orlando is a perfect example of why tanking never works. They did everything that tWo would want to do and yet have a middling, low-ceiling roster. Meanwhile the Spurs treadmill for years, finally gut their team, land Wemby, then they get lucky again in the next two years and land in the top 4 to get Castle and Harper. lol.

I still think it’s fair to put Orlando above us despite their injuries but obviously we have a better future given we have all of our picks.

I could see Orlando going on an opportunistic run during a weird playoffs. Like they happen to be 100% healthy while everyone else isn't type thing. But that's about it. I don't see consistent contender status in their future.

As an aside point....i wonder if the treadmill trope is something else that has changed in this new paradigm. With all the injuries nowadays....there's a greater chance for a treadmill team to make the finals then possibly ever before. For decades it seemed like there were only 3 or 4 teams that had a chance to make the finals. And that's where the pitfalls of being a treadmill team were based on. One might make the argument that it's actually worth sticking with with a team ranked somewhere between 6th and 12th best team. Because teams like that actually have a chance to go on a finals run in the new paradigm. That never happened for decades and now it can.

Might be a reason to adjust the emplpyment of the treadmill trope: 1 because upsets actually happen nowadays and 2 because injuries became a MUCH larger factor.

So i could see Orlando go an a run like the pacers did. And yes they have already placed down their futures but you could still make one big consolidation trade with their depth. You could probably put a package of young players centered around either Franz or Banchero and get a early 30s superstar maybe?

All things considered....i'd give them the edge over our current state but it's not an insurmountable difference.

[NinjaBro]

18 pages after a win? what are we arguing about today?

[GoRapstheoriginal]

18 pages after a win? what are we arguing about today?

this for F*cking real! Go out & touch grass!!!!!

[Tor_Raps]

if Suggs is the engine to your team then your team is flawed just as much as our team is then. Crappy shooter & a decent to poor playmaker who's currently injury prone. He plays with grit but I wouldn't wanna be paying him 32mill & would rather have the 3pt shooting of IQ for the same price

Not a single rational person would take IQ over Suggs right now... youre better than this lol.

Suggs has a lot of what made Lowry great for us that cannot be quantified by basic stats. Hes still not a finished product.

For our current roster construction I think I’d take IQ over Suggs tbh.

His 3pt volume and range spaces the floor in a way this team really needs, and I don’t think there’s a significant difference as playmakers.

Defensively Suggs is on another level, but I’m higher on IQs defense than most around here.

We have already seen how effective Shead is with our starting lineup and hes basically a poor man's Suggs at the moment.

When IQs on his game, he provides almost everything the team needs but too bad his consistency is like a 6th man rather than a franchise starting PG. We need him impacting the game more than just being able to shoot, which he doesnt really do at the moment.

[Tor_Raps]

18 pages after a win? what are we arguing about today?

this for F*cking real! Go out & touch snow!!!!!

Fixed lol

[mdenny]

Any trade that ends up with Shead being our best PG isn’t a good trade for a serious team.

Big fan of Shead, but he’s an energy bench guard

you don't think Shead-RJ-Barnes-Ingram-AD could work? lets assume AD isn't injury prone

You can’t win when 4 starters aren’t threats from 3

Yah that's the problem. And you could be an amazing distributor but you'll never get the chance to actually show it when noone can shoot.

I honestly think we're just gonna have to wait for IQ to sit out some games before this is made clear. Kinda like how RJ was the focal point of so much criticism until we saw what the offense looks like without the lane pressure.

Shead is a great backup point guard.....but to have a chance at being a good starter....he'd need ALOT of shooting in the rest of the SL and we don't have that. Having some great games here and there won't stand up to the scrutiny when teams actually prepare for a short PG who can't shoot well. They will make you look like you can't pass even though you are a great passer.

What an amazing pick though. If he can somehow manage to improve his 3 this summer....it would unlock everything for him. He's definitely young enough to make a leap in that facet. There are no NBA players in the top 200 who are his size that can't shoot well. You can't be short and not shoot well.

[Got Nuffin]

Orlando are a better team than us, and i think it’s a bit of homerism to think otherwise. That doesn’t mean that they’re in a better position than us moving forward.

Biggest difference? They just traded 4-5 unprotected 1st round picks (ie. their entire future) for Desmond Bane. Aside from internal development, this was their all in, make us a contender move. So are they contenders? In two years time? Does Bane solve their half court issues?

We have all our picks and obviously haven’t made any such move and yet we can beat them on any given night and would have a puncher’s chance in a series with them.

I also think we have more internal development opportunities depending on how you view CMB. So yeah they are better now, but the fact that we’re even arguing over this is a poor sign for the all-in team with few assets left.

[tsherkin]

So are they contenders? In two years time? Does Bane solve their half court issues?

Short answer? No.

Banchero is too poor a scorer.

Until and unless that changes, they aren't leaving the conference, let alone winning a title.

[basketballto]

A large contingent of this board wanted to punt FVV into the sun for his inefficient scoring and now they want to start a guy who is shooting 37% from the field.

Shead is not close to a starting level PG. I’d be surprised if he ever gets there based on his scoring woes. Fine player but thinking he can start is borderline crazy imo.

Shead defends, Fred didn't, he was either injured or checked out.

Shead needs to work on a floater aside from 3pt practice

lol okay. How has the narrative became FVV didn’t defend?

People remember the playoffs where Maxey would burn past Fred. Fred wasn't a good POA defender.

Fred was above average for defending and stealing but lost a step at the end.

[MiamiSPX]

You can't really use missing Suggs as any sort of excuse for losing games, given that he is always injured. That's like beating the Pelicans but then saying it's a fake win because Zion didn't play. He never plays lol. Suggs has become one of the most injury prone guys around. This is his 5th season and he has already missed 131 games. Since coming into the league, he has actually played less games than Anthony Davis. I'm a big fan of his game so not disparaging him, just pointing out the facts.

Orlando should be better than us, but I wouldn't say they are in an enviable position. WCJ and Isaac have both been healthy this season, for once, and it hasn't led to anything. They have 4 guys set to make over 32M next season and none of them are a #1 option on a contender (not unlike a lot of teams, including us).

I did see an interesting suggestion online that they should make a play for Giannis. As bad as he's been, the Bucks could do a lot worse than Paolo. That becomes an easy sell to the casual fans also.....former #1 pick, ROY, All-Star, just turned 23. We know Giannis has an affinity for fellow Euros, so he may be sold on playing with Franz, and in Florida no less.