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[Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade

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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#361 » by Psubs » Thu May 19, 2022 1:03 am

720 wrote:
Psubs wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267008/Rafael-Stone-Rockets-Open-To-Moving-Third-Overall-Pick

#3 (Banchero?), Eric Gordon (expiring) and Christian Wood (expiring) for Pascal, Flynn and Svi (waive). Houston could use Pascal's playmaking.

Banchero is bigger than Siakam and could be a nice double PF duo with Precious.

It's a gamble but at that size and strength he could be this generation's Karl Malone that shoots 3's.

Houston would never do that. They're trying to rebuild with a solid young core multiple with star potential. Trading for a 28 year old Siakam makes little sense. They probably won't make a win now move until a couple years from now when they have a foundation of young players with talent.


True. I think Zion for #3 and Gordon?
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#362 » by Mak » Thu May 19, 2022 1:35 am

720 wrote:
Psubs wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267008/Rafael-Stone-Rockets-Open-To-Moving-Third-Overall-Pick

#3 (Banchero?), Eric Gordon (expiring) and Christian Wood (expiring) for Pascal, Flynn and Svi (waive). Houston could use Pascal's playmaking.

Banchero is bigger than Siakam and could be a nice double PF duo with Precious.

It's a gamble but at that size and strength he could be this generation's Karl Malone that shoots 3's.

Houston would never do that. They're trying to rebuild with a solid young core multiple with star potential. Trading for a 28 year old Siakam makes little sense. They probably won't make a win now move until a couple years from now when they have a foundation of young players with talent.


Houston needs to tank one more year, then their pick goes to OKC. Maybe they will make some kind of win now move next year.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#363 » by Dude-niagara » Thu May 19, 2022 11:25 am

Psubs wrote:
720 wrote:
Psubs wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/267008/Rafael-Stone-Rockets-Open-To-Moving-Third-Overall-Pick

#3 (Banchero?), Eric Gordon (expiring) and Christian Wood (expiring) for Pascal, Flynn and Svi (waive). Houston could use Pascal's playmaking.

Banchero is bigger than Siakam and could be a nice double PF duo with Precious.

It's a gamble but at that size and strength he could be this generation's Karl Malone that shoots 3's.

Houston would never do that. They're trying to rebuild with a solid young core multiple with star potential. Trading for a 28 year old Siakam makes little sense. They probably won't make a win now move until a couple years from now when they have a foundation of young players with talent.


True. I think Zion for #3 and Gordon?


Rockets GM Rafael Stone on possibly moving the team's No. 3 pick: "We’re definitely open to it. That’s kind of an important part of my personal philosophy is that you always want to be open to those things."




I think the Rockets owner will be looking to get back to winning next season and would consider that trade if presented. As for Siakam, timelines need to be considerd. In 3 years Barnes will be 23 and OG will be 27-28 while Siakam will be 31. So if the Raptors are going to sell high then now maybe the best time, when he is in his prime with a couple years still left on his contract. In 3 years he would be 31-32 in his first year of a contract paying him 55-60 millon a season with new TV deal starting in 2025. Not hard to see him losing some of his athletic talent at around 31-32 as we have seen with other players and becoming a defensive role player. At that point he would be tougher to move him at the start of a max contract. We know he is not a true #1 option, so can Barnes be #1 an OG a solid two way player #2 option?

To be clear I am not suggesting the Raptors look to trade him for nothing but if the right deal becomes available like the Houston one that was suggested or extracting Shai from OKC using a third team than you do it because of timelines connected to Barnes.Another consideration is that unless your some Siakam fanboy you would see that during the start of the season Barnes looked his best playing next to OG (they beat Celtics in Boston) because OG unlike Siakam is not ball dominant. Barnes and Siakam essentially play the same position and are overlaps. Almost right after Siakam returned Barnes's numbers started to drop. Now if they cannot find the right trade/return for SiAKAM then at the very least they need to move out either Fred or Trent or next season could be a massive disappointment for anyone wanting to see Barnes take another step forward.

Those 3 high usage players will set a massive road block for Barnes and him moving up the pecking order. This all comes down to math and the math does not work. Not enough attempts for 4 guys to eat when 3 of the 4 are consistently looking to jack 20 plus shots a night. I am already hearing how Trent wants to be a bigger part of the offence and you know Fred will be looking to shoot himself into another all star game. Add Siakam and his 20-25 attempts a night and you have crumbs left over for Barnes.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#364 » by HiJiNX » Thu May 19, 2022 2:41 pm

Why on Google Earth would we trade Pascal??
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#365 » by Tor_Raps » Thu May 19, 2022 2:45 pm

HiJiNX wrote:Why on Google Earth would we trade Pascal??


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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#366 » by HiJiNX » Thu May 19, 2022 2:46 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
HiJiNX wrote:Why on Google Earth would we trade Pascal??



:lol: classic.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#367 » by Johnny Bball » Thu May 19, 2022 3:20 pm

720 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:
Raptors are NOT going to trade their two best shooters for a big who hasn't proved he can shoot or defend on the perimeter.


I have them trying to acquire SGA, not Ayton.

SGA
OG
Barnes
Siakam
Precious

Oh man, what a lineup. So dynamic.


It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#368 » by Mak » Thu May 19, 2022 3:25 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
720 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
I have them trying to acquire SGA, not Ayton.

SGA
OG
Barnes
Siakam
Precious

Oh man, what a lineup. So dynamic.


It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.


35% 3 point shooter who shot 41% last year. I don't think he'll be shooting 30% for the rest of his career.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#369 » by Johnny Bball » Thu May 19, 2022 3:26 pm

Mak wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
720 wrote:Oh man, what a lineup. So dynamic.


It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.


35% 3 point shooter who shot 41% last year. I don't think he'll be shooting 30% for the rest of his career.


So for you the outlier is the 30% after he started receiving more defensive attention and not the 41%? Can't say I didn't expect it.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#370 » by Mak » Thu May 19, 2022 3:34 pm

Siakam shot 29% last year and 35% this year. There are stats available to see if his shots became more difficult compared to last year when he shot 41%. 3 years he shot 35% or better and one year it was 30%, i would say yes, the one year is the outlier without looking at advanced stats.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#371 » by Los_29 » Thu May 19, 2022 3:58 pm

Mak wrote:Siakam shot 29% last year and 35% this year. There are stats available to see if his shots became more difficult compared to last year when he shot 41%. 3 years he shot 35% or better and one year it was 30%, i would say yes, the one year is the outlier without looking at advanced stats.


Wouldn't the 42% from three be the outlier? His first year he hot 36.7% on very low volume, the following year shot below 35% on slightly more volume and then last year attempted the most amount of threes in his career and shot 30%. The year he shot 42% he only played 35 games.

I love the fact that SGA is Canadian but I'm not too sure how he fits with this team. He's not a great defender, not a great passer and the 3pt shooting is very concerning.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#372 » by wegotthabeet » Thu May 19, 2022 4:04 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
720 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
I have them trying to acquire SGA, not Ayton.

SGA
OG
Barnes
Siakam
Precious

Oh man, what a lineup. So dynamic.


It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.


That lineup looks like a future title contender to me.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#373 » by Los_29 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:09 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
720 wrote:Oh man, what a lineup. So dynamic.


It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.


That lineup looks like a future title contender to me.


How?
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#374 » by wegotthabeet » Thu May 19, 2022 4:14 pm

Los_29 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
It makes our 3 point shooting pathetic with SGA hitting at a 30% clip, it takes a ton from out defence especially on ball, he may play half the games again, he’s not as good a passer…. But gotta have that mystery box I guess.


That lineup looks like a future title contender to me.


How?


I think SGA and Barnes will eventually be all NBA level players. If you’re a team with three all NBA level players + OG + Precious + three other great rotation guys you’re probably a title contender.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#375 » by Los_29 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:22 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
That lineup looks like a future title contender to me.


How?


I think SGA and Barnes will eventually be all NBA level players. If you’re a team with three all NBA level players + OG + Precious + three other great rotation guys you’re probably a title contender.


I don't think SGA can get to that level. Needs to improve defensively, needs to improve his playmaking and needs to improve his shooting. The year where he shot 42% from three looks like more of an outlier than last year where he shot 30% from three.

There is a lot that SGA needs to do to get to that ALL-NBA level. A LOT. I just don't know how realistic that is.

That lineup would be horrific on the offensive end without shooting and playmaking. It would be ugly to watch.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#376 » by wegotthabeet » Thu May 19, 2022 4:29 pm

Los_29 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
How?


I think SGA and Barnes will eventually be all NBA level players. If you’re a team with three all NBA level players + OG + Precious + three other great rotation guys you’re probably a title contender.


I don't think SGA can get to that level. Needs to improve defensively, needs to improve his playmaking and needs to improve his shooting. The year where he shot 42% from three looks like more of an outlier than last year where he shot 30% from three.

There is a lot that SGA needs to do to get to that ALL-NBA level. A LOT. I just don't know how realistic that is.

That lineup would be horrific on the offensive end without shooting and playmaking. It would be ugly to watch.


I strongly disagree, but to each their own.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#377 » by Los_29 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:38 pm

wegotthabeet wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
wegotthabeet wrote:
I think SGA and Barnes will eventually be all NBA level players. If you’re a team with three all NBA level players + OG + Precious + three other great rotation guys you’re probably a title contender.


I don't think SGA can get to that level. Needs to improve defensively, needs to improve his playmaking and needs to improve his shooting. The year where he shot 42% from three looks like more of an outlier than last year where he shot 30% from three.

There is a lot that SGA needs to do to get to that ALL-NBA level. A LOT. I just don't know how realistic that is.

That lineup would be horrific on the offensive end without shooting and playmaking. It would be ugly to watch.


I strongly disagree, but to each their own.


What do you disagree with?

You think that starting lineup has enough shooting? We would have one of the worst shooting starting lineups in the league and less playmaking than before. We would also take a huge hit defensively with SGA replacing Fred. Fred was among the league leaders in deflections and steals and part of what made our defense effective was our ability to bust up plays and force turnovers which led to points in transition. SGA forces very few turnovers.

I think you're expecting SGA to make these unprecedented leaps to his game in areas that he's never really been good at. That's the problem. There really isn't anything to suggest that SGA is that much of a difference maker.
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#378 » by pingpongrac » Thu May 19, 2022 4:41 pm

Mak wrote:Siakam shot 29% last year and 35% this year. There are stats available to see if his shots became more difficult compared to last year when he shot 41%. 3 years he shot 35% or better and one year it was 30%, i would say yes, the one year is the outlier without looking at advanced stats.


Sample size. SGA attempted 390 threes (35%) in his first 2 seasons then he only played 35 games last season and attempted 170 threes (42%). In 56 games this season, he attempted 297 threes (30%). The 42% last season is the clear outlier on limited attempts.

That's not to say SGA is a bad shooter, but taking out two ~40% shooters from a lineup that already had some spacing issues and replacing them with SGA and Achiuwa (even if his 38% 2022 numbers are legit) certainly wouldn't open up the paint more for Siakam/Scottie.

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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#379 » by 720 » Thu May 19, 2022 5:18 pm

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea. :lol:
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Re: [Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade 

Post#380 » by pingpongrac » Thu May 19, 2022 5:31 pm

720 wrote:You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.


When did anyone even say it would be a bad idea to trade for SGA? And why do you have to bring FVV "stans" into everything? Pointing out the fact that SGA isn't a great shooter doesn't mean people are rationalizing not trading for SGA.

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