Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[TheDunc]

pingpongrac just provided the stats. Look above. Majority of the players score more when Siakam is off the floor.

What? You mean players score more when the main scorer is on the bench and shots distribute out to others?

What about the fact our offense gets 15 points worse when Siakam sits in the stretch of games you referenced? Does that matter?

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

If Siakam doesnt go off like he did then raptors are not winning last nights game no matter how much open shots he creates. Everybody on the team is struggling make wide open shots....

[Johnny Bball]

pingpongrac just provided the stats. Look above. Majority of the players score more when Siakam is off the floor.

What? You mean players score more when the main scorer is on the bench and shots distribute out to others?

What about the fact our offense gets 15 points worse when Siakam sits in the stretch of games you referenced? Does that matter?

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

[OakleyDokely]

Siakam is averaging 6.8 assists per game, which puts him top 10 in the entire NBA.

The only non guard higher is Jokic.

[JB7]

What? You mean players score more when the main scorer is on the bench and shots distribute out to others?

What about the fact our offense gets 15 points worse when Siakam sits in the stretch of games you referenced? Does that matter?

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

[Johnny Bball]

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

In what way does any of that relate to missing open and wide open shots the way we are out of nowhere? They aren't just missing because Siakam shoots. Siakam's usage is the same the last 4 years. It's not increased out of nowhere.

7 assists a game is hardly last resort, it's an elite point forward facilitation rate.

[Los_29]

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

Pingpongrac posted our players numbers with/without Pascal on the previous page. Our players are generally far more efficient with Pascal than without.

What you’re suggesting is just not reflected in the numbers.

[JB7]

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

In what way does any of that relate to missing open and wide open shots the way we are out of nowhere? They aren't just missing because Siakam shoots. Siakam's usage is the same the last 4 years. It's not increased out of nowhere.

7 assists a game is hardly last resort, it's an elite point forward facilitation rate.

The commentators talk about this all the time. Getting players touches and feeling the ball, getting off early easy shots to build confidence. If a player does not touch a ball until the last couple minutes of a 1st quarter, and then in a more intense setting is expected to hit a big shot, generally they will shoot poorer.

Great distributors are looking to get their teammates going first, because the distributor is already handling the ball a lot, and can get their shot at any time.

[JB7]

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

Pingpongrac posted our players numbers with/without Pascal on the previous page. Our players are generally far more efficient with Pascal than without.

What you’re suggesting is just not reflected in the numbers.

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

[YogurtProducer]

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

Pingpongrac posted our players numbers with/without Pascal on the previous page. Our players are generally far more efficient with Pascal than without.

What you’re suggesting is just not reflected in the numbers.

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

AKA - you have no real argument and you are spewing bull **** hoping that something sticks.

Some LOL takes here. Siakam is not a good playmaker? Jesus man why does anyone even respond to stuff that is just factually wrong?

[YogurtProducer]

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

In what way does any of that relate to missing open and wide open shots the way we are out of nowhere? They aren't just missing because Siakam shoots. Siakam's usage is the same the last 4 years. It's not increased out of nowhere.

7 assists a game is hardly last resort, it's an elite point forward facilitation rate.

The commentators talk about this all the time. Getting players touches and feeling the ball, getting off early easy shots to build confidence. If a player does not touch a ball until the last couple minutes of a 1st quarter, and then in a more intense setting is expected to hit a big shot, generally they will shoot poorer.

Great distributors are looking to get their teammates going first, because the distributor is already handling the ball a lot, and can get their shot at any time.

Lets revisit this stat here from ping - maybe this will make it make more sense.

Scoring (per36) and efficiency with/without Siakam

GTJ: 20.8 PTS on 62 TS% vs 17.7 PTS on 47 TS%Scores more, and is more efficient with Siakam
Banton: 16.7 PTS on 54 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 50 TS% More efficient with Siakam
OG: 16.6 PTS on 59 TS% vs 20.1 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Scottie: 16.4 PTS on 59 TS% vs 15.0 PTS on 46 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Boucher: 15.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 18.2 PTS on 53 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Birch: 12.0 PTS on 63 TS% vs 7.6 PTS on 60 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Thad: 10.7 PTS on 63 TS% vs 11.0 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Juancho: 9.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 8.9 PTS on 58 TS% More efficient with Siakam

Less efficient / scores less when Siakam is on
FVV: 15.2 PTS on 51 TS% vs 22.2 PTS on 54 TS%
Flynn: 12.6 PTS on 42 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 69 TS%
Koloko: 7.1 PTS on 50 TS% vs 9.1 PTS on 50 TS%
Achiuwa: 12.0 PTS on 49 TS% vs 18.9 PTS on 50 TS%

FVV - the dude obviously shoots a lot more with Siakam on the bench. The efficiency actually shocks me but I am guessing we have some bad 3 point shooting numbers.
Flynn - such a small sample size. Only 94 minutes together. If I had to guess we are looking at 3 point variance as that swing is from MVP Curry to Out of the league.
Koloko - essentially the same
Precious - has played 9 games. Not gonna look to far into it as it appears the increase is simply shoots more with Siakam out

So overwhelmingly players perform better with Siakam on the floor. Their efficiency skyrockets even if their PPG go down. How can you look at this and conclude Siakam does not help his teammates?

[ItsDanger]

Aaron Gordon with ORL: TS 53.1%.

Aaron Gordon + Jokic with DEN: TS 61.3%

That's not luck.

[Chandan]

Siakam is averaging 6.8 assists per game, which puts him top 10 in the entire NBA.

The only non guard higher is Jokic.

we really have a good one in Siakam.

[YogurtProducer]

What? You mean players score more when the main scorer is on the bench and shots distribute out to others?

What about the fact our offense gets 15 points worse when Siakam sits in the stretch of games you referenced? Does that matter?

The fact that so few players are better scorers with him on the floor speaks to how much offence he sucks up when he is out on the floor. If he had such great gravity, you would think more teammates would benefit from that, with more open looks and therefore more production. He is out on the floor for 36mins a game, when he plays. Does not leave a lot of time for others to score.

Game against the Knicks last night was the perfect example. There were times he was driving into the paint to score, and there were like 3-4 Knicks in the paint. The fact that he did score speaks to how poorly the Knicks defend. But he didn't even look to teammates, sitting wide open.

We aren't a good shooting team this year. It's just that simple.

As for your other point that they pass only because of last resort, that's pure conjecture. Both look to pass, not all the time. FVV is a better passer because of where he delivers the ball to the shooter. Siakam gets the ball there, but he might not hit the shooting pocket as often yet. Not sure, but looks like that.

Siakam doesn't take the shots last night, other players miss, we extend that losing streak. Pascal dominated the ball a little more last night because we had to get off the schnide. And rightly so.

Absolutely crazy to try and talk **** about a dude about a player whose improved our offense by 15 points since returning from injury and is averaging 28.4/8.0/6.5 on 59.5TS%, and last night gave us 52 points on 25 shots (and 7 assists lmao). He single handedly was a part of at least 66 points (52 + 7 assists x 2) and probably more since I am sure he assisted some 3's and probably some free throws. Literally accounted for 70% or more of our offense.

[Los_29]

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

Pingpongrac posted our players numbers with/without Pascal on the previous page. Our players are generally far more efficient with Pascal than without.

What you’re suggesting is just not reflected in the numbers.

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

What? That doesn't make any sense though. That's not what we are comparing.

[YogurtProducer]

Aaron Gordon with ORL: TS 53.1%.

Aaron Gordon + Jokic with DEN: TS 61.3%

That's not luck.

What is the point of this post?

[KO7]

Wait, someone here actually trying to make Pascal sound selfish and not a good distributor?

Might as well criticize Tatum and Mitchell too for taking the majority of their teams’ shots.

[ItsDanger]

Aaron Gordon with ORL: TS 53.1%.

Aaron Gordon + Jokic with DEN: TS 61.3%

That's not luck.

What is the point of this post?

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

[JB7]

Pingpongrac posted our players numbers with/without Pascal on the previous page. Our players are generally far more efficient with Pascal than without.

What you’re suggesting is just not reflected in the numbers.

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

What? That doesn't make any sense though. That's not what we are comparing.

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

[OakleyDokely]

Aaron Gordon with ORL: TS 53.1%.

Aaron Gordon + Jokic with DEN: TS 61.3%

That's not luck.

What is the point of this post?

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

Jamal Murray has a 52 TS%, is that Jokic's fault?

[YogurtProducer]

Aaron Gordon with ORL: TS 53.1%.

Aaron Gordon + Jokic with DEN: TS 61.3%

That's not luck.

What is the point of this post?

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

And how is this not an example?

Scoring (per36) and efficiency with/without Siakam

GTJ: 20.8 PTS on 62 TS% vs 17.7 PTS on 47 TS%Scores more, and is more efficient with Siakam
Banton: 16.7 PTS on 54 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 50 TS% More efficient with Siakam
OG: 16.6 PTS on 59 TS% vs 20.1 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Scottie: 16.4 PTS on 59 TS% vs 15.0 PTS on 46 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Boucher: 15.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 18.2 PTS on 53 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Birch: 12.0 PTS on 63 TS% vs 7.6 PTS on 60 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Thad: 10.7 PTS on 63 TS% vs 11.0 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Juancho: 9.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 8.9 PTS on 58 TS% More efficient with Siakam

That being said - if your bar for Siakam is "MVP of the league" then you are going to be disappointed.

But if you REALLY want to discuss Aaron Gordon - a big reason his efficiency has skyrocketed is because instead of being the 1st-2nd option of those Orlando teams, he is now a 3rd-4th option in Denver. Does playing with Jokic help? ABSOLUTELY. But want to know what else helps?

He used to take 25% of his shots from mid range in Orlando. This is now 7% in Denver.
He used to be assisted on 50% of his buckets. This is now up to 60% in Denver.

He no longer has to create most of his own offense, and he has teammates around him like KCP, Brown, Murray, MPJ, Hyland who can all shoot the basketball and give him space. A big part of this is of course Jokic, but another part of it is the rest of the team who allow Gordon to be a role player instead of a main cog.

Like what is your master point here? A good player goes from being a 1st option to a role player and sees his efficiency skyrocket? Wow - shocking.