Raps vs Wiz Preseason -Sun Oct 12 3PM EST

[PushDaRock]

Scottie’s offence was doomed the moment he didn’t fire his childhood trainer after his 2nd season.

He can’t shoot or drive. There’s no fixing that. Luckily he’s still a great passer and borderline elite defender. Just gotta hope he can embrace a 3rd option role on offence.

With his offensive skill set he is not a 3rd option. He’s a 4th option at best with quickley Barrett and Ingram

Probably more of the 5th option in the starting lineup because you would rather have Jak finishing the play over him.

[PushDaRock]

I don’t really give a **** about the results of the preseason, as we have seen it has zero bearing on the regular season.

Separately though, if his shooting the ball still sucks, it’s all on him. He should have made the decision to change trainer years ago.

Everyone would be talking about it if he came into camp lvled up. It's the same Scottie that walked into camp last year imo.

Really, it's on him or the front office at this point.

It's on the front office for giving him that undeserved max contract.

What FO do you think wasn't giving him that contract? He was an All-Star. His comparables for that offseason were Franz and Sengun. Franz got the Max. Sengun got less AAV but with a player option. Scottie was ahead of both of them from an accolades and value stand point. It's just bad luck on our part that he regressed so badly.

[bballsparkin]

What FO do you think wasn't giving him that contract? He was an All-Star. His comparables for that offseason were Franz and Sengun. Franz got the Max. Sengun got less AAV but with a player option. Scottie was ahead of both of them from an accolades and value stand point. It's just bad luck on our part that he regressed so badly.

Lol, let's wait until at least one regular season game has happened.

[Got Nuffin]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

[PushDaRock]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

[Got Nuffin]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Their stats are extremely similar through the same ages, with Scottie obviously having more usg% and assists because of his ability to handle the ball.

Sure at age 27 Gordon was a super efficient two way player and star but maybe let's wait until Barnes is of similar age before comparing apples to apples.

He could absolutely be a #3 on a championship team if you consider his ability to generate shots for others a good category for him to be an 'option'

[PushDaRock]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Their stats are extremely similar through the same ages, with Scottie obviously having more usg% and assists because of his ability to handle the ball.

Sure at age 27 Gordon was a super efficient two way player and star but maybe let's wait until Barnes is of similar age before comparing apples to apples.

He could absolutely be a #3 on a championship team if you consider his ability to generate shots for others a good category for him to be an 'option'

Is he going to be a 3rd option making the Max on any championship team?

Do we have 3 years to wait on him to get to elite role player status?

If he gets to Aaron Gordon level, I'm happy with that because my expectations are lowered. But, when he signed his max extension, the expectation certainly wasn't that he would only get to that level of a player. From that perspective, it would still be a disappointment because nobody is trying to pay Aaron Gordon max money.

[ConSarnit]

I think people's expectations just got too inflated after Barnes was an All Star at an early age. To me, he was never going to be our next Kawhi - his touch from the rim or from range was just nowhere near that and Kawhi's development was a massive outlier in itself.

He has always looked to me like Aaron Gordon with great handles / vision instead of crazy athleticism. I think he is that at his ceiling. I mean, to me, that is one heckuva player to have your team.

But it's no franchise player, and if you're looking for that in him your were always going to be a bit disappointed.

Whether CMB develops so fast as to make Scottie redundant remains to be seen, and we have still have a lot of time to figure it out. I think people should relax and enjoy this upcoming season as Ingram looks like a very exciting player to combine with our guys.

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Their stats are extremely similar through the same ages, with Scottie obviously having more usg% and assists because of his ability to handle the ball.

Sure at age 27 Gordon was a super efficient two way player and star but maybe let's wait until Barnes is of similar age before comparing apples to apples.

He could absolutely be a #3 on a championship team if you consider his ability to generate shots for others a good category for him to be an 'option'

If this team (or any teams Barnes is on) is good enough to win the title his offensive role will have been reduced to the point where his shot creation for others will be much lower impact (at least compared to now). The further someone moves down the pecking order the move reliant on shooting they need to be because they won’t get the on-ball reps. No title team can survive Barnes being a top creator because his own offense is so bad. Almost every recent title team gets floor scoring from their 3rd option.

Who is the recent comp for Barnes as “3rd option on a title team”? Maybe Draymond? Well, Barnes hasn’t shown he can defend as a small ball C in that regard. Gordon was DEN 3rd option when they won the title but his usage was 15%. Barnes usage last year was 27%. You cut Barnes usage to 15% and his playmaking opportunities drop significantly. Non-shooting 3rd option on a title team is a rare occurrence.

[Got Nuffin]

Expectations inflated? He's making the Max. There's a certain standard for Max players.

Who was thinking he was going to be Kawhi?

I think most people were just hoping he would emerge as a #2 maybe #3 option on a championship caliber team.

I don't even think people at this point would be upset if he could get to Aaron Gordon level offensively but he's still far away from that.

Their stats are extremely similar through the same ages, with Scottie obviously having more usg% and assists because of his ability to handle the ball.

Sure at age 27 Gordon was a super efficient two way player and star but maybe let's wait until Barnes is of similar age before comparing apples to apples.

He could absolutely be a #3 on a championship team if you consider his ability to generate shots for others a good category for him to be an 'option'

Is he going to be a 3rd option making the Max on any championship team?

Do we have 3 years to wait on him to get to elite role player status?

If he gets to Aaron Gordon level, I'm happy with that because my expectations are lowered. But, when he signed his max extension, the expectation certainly wasn't that he would only get to that level of a player. From that perspective, it would still be a disappointment because nobody is trying to pay Aaron Gordon max money.

I mean, that's a decent argument around the money. But teams have also won with overpaid players before. Gordon also does not have anywhere close to the playmaking capabilities / potential of Barnes even if the shooting levels out around the same. I would absolutely consider trading Barnes just because of the money - if CMB develops well.

And we all know that the front office needs to make a trade to consolidate assets. We initially thought Barnes would be the one staying, but if CMB is all that for sure let's get to it.

I'm just arguing the fact that irrespective of money, Barnes is still going to be a heckuva player who plays both sides of the ball well assuming he keeps developing and you can win with him playing a large role.

[LoveMyRaps]

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[ATLTimekeeper]

Scottie really looks like he's just taking jumpers and playing D in pre-season. If this is how he plays when the games matter, then it would be intentional to try and get the coach fired and sink the team. I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, look how supportive he is of his teammates out there. I think he's locked in, and he just is using these reps for practice.

It's really tough to gauge the offense without Poeltl.

The guys I wish we saw a little more out of are Jakobe, Jamal and Ochai. I've already assumed Mogbo will be out of the rotation to start the year.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We have an issue at point guard, especially back up point guard that makes the absence of a screener like Yak, a likely serious issue, I fear.

Any good PG's in the 2026 draft available in the teens? Hopefully.

I would hope that as the season progresses, the would address this, this year if the need persists.

I looked it up and Shead has a 37% assist rate. I think he's been... fine. Chucky has been good, too. The 2nd unit really needs CMB in that Marc Gasol role.

[Buff]

is this going to be the season? Win or lose walls of Scottie hate? Please create the "I hate Scottie" thread and let us get on with our lives

[NBA Sheady]

There was a stretch in this game where Scottie did a great job on something they worked on in camp. Starting the break from the "first touch". He's getting the board and just whipping that thing to half-court. One on occasion quick was at half-court and just casually dribbled into a three. This is going to be fun to watch this year as I'm pretty sure Poeltl will be good at this too.

[Zeno]

Any good PG's in the 2026 draft available in the teens? Hopefully.

I would hope that as the season progresses, the would address this, this year if the need persists.

I looked it up and Shead has a 37% assist rate. I think he's been... fine. Chucky has been good, too. The 2nd unit really needs CMB in that Marc Gasol role.

I agree that CMB will help and Shead or Chucky might be fine in a perfect lineup but there is a danger in that a lot of the Raptors team seems strongly dependent on certain lineup constructions to be functional. It makes injuries that shouldn’t be significant way more impactful than they should be ideally.

[hyper316]

Scottie really looks like he's just taking jumpers and playing D in pre-season. If this is how he plays when the games matter, then it would be intentional to try and get the coach fired and sink the team. I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, look how supportive he is of his teammates out there. I think he's locked in, and he just is using these reps for practice.

It's really tough to gauge the offense without Poeltl.

The guys I wish we saw a little more out of are Jakobe, Jamal and Ochai. I've already assumed Mogbo will be out of the rotation to start the year.

Scottie is stuck settling for midrange because he has no face up game/ballhandling, and he can only get so far backing down his defender from the perimeter. He needs to position himself in the post much closer to the basket. Revert Scottie back to his rookie role as dunker spot and offensive rebound machine.

[Madvillainy2004]

Scottie’s offence was doomed the moment he didn’t fire his childhood trainer after his 2nd season.

He can’t shoot or drive. There’s no fixing that. Luckily he’s still a great passer and borderline elite defender. Just gotta hope he can embrace a 3rd option role on offence.

With his offensive skill set he is not a 3rd option. He’s a 4th option at best with quickley Barrett and Ingram

Probably more of the 5th option in the starting lineup because you would rather have Jak finishing the play over him.

It may not be a great thing if our highest paid player is probably 5th best option on the court to shoot the ball in a given possession lmao

[Boogie!]

With his offensive skill set he is not a 3rd option. He’s a 4th option at best with quickley Barrett and Ingram

Probably more of the 5th option in the starting lineup because you would rather have Jak finishing the play over him.

It may not be a great thing if our highest paid player is probably 5th best option on the court to shoot the ball in a given possession lmao

And ta da I think we finally understand the issue now.

[Buff]

Probably more of the 5th option in the starting lineup because you would rather have Jak finishing the play over him.

It may not be a great thing if our highest paid player is probably 5th best option on the court to shoot the ball in a given possession lmao

And ta da I think we finally understand the issue now.

What I think has been vastly overlooked in the wall of hate is that the solution is not that complicated. Scottie must play in the post, he actually commands double teams there and can live off putbacks and stuff. You could see it a bit this last game, his activity made the offense work even when he was missing. That is clearly his role and the coaching staff just have to implement it.

See? the sky might not fall after all!

[Boogie!]

Scottie really looks like he's just taking jumpers and playing D in pre-season. If this is how he plays when the games matter, then it would be intentional to try and get the coach fired and sink the team. I don't think that's the case at all. I mean, look how supportive he is of his teammates out there. I think he's locked in, and he just is using these reps for practice.

It's really tough to gauge the offense without Poeltl.

The guys I wish we saw a little more out of are Jakobe, Jamal and Ochai. I've already assumed Mogbo will be out of the rotation to start the year.

Scottie is stuck settling for midrange because he has no face up game/ballhandling, and he can only get so far backing down his defender from the perimeter. He needs to position himself in the post much closer to the basket. Revert Scottie back to his rookie role as dunker spot and offensive rebound machine.

Scottie didn’t get paid the max to be the same guy he was as a rookie