jakobe & Dick were bad picks

[HumbleRen]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

[brownbobcat]

This completely misses the fact that no organization can hit all the time. IF you are batting ~50%, you are doing well.

Go look at Presti/OKC and the Spurs drafting records. Aside from Masai/Raptors, they are the other 2 teams cited for hitting in the draft at a high rate. Look at them side by side with the Raptors picks over the last decade. The Raptors still come out on top.

NBA fanbases have unrealistic expectations when it comes to the draft, partly driven by an inability to take into account expected values.

You're right, no one can do it all the time - but that's the job.

Their successes over the "last decade" obscure the fact that Barnes has been their only homerun in the past 7 years. And yes, a big part of that was trading away picks to win the ring, but not stockpiling extra draft assets since then. "Expected values" is a crap benchmark, it's what gets you to average results.

No, that isn't the job The job is to be right more than your peers. Success in the draft is pretty weak overall, with roughly 1/4 of all drafted players having good careers. Home run success seems really flimsy when you consider how frequently teams that hit a home run can draft a complete non-NBA player AHEAD of that home run in the same draft.

The job is to outperform substantially. If you're averaging 41, 42, 43, 44 wins over a long stretch, you're going to be fired. If you're drafting guys marginally better than slot, you're going to be fired.

[kalel123]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

My guess is they (wrongly) had him higher on the list of internal mock drafts, figured there wasn't much chance he'd be there so didn't scout in enough depth. Then guys they were looking at were probably taken earlier than they thought (and failed to trade up as usual) so just said F it and took him. As is the practice, there'll be some stories about how they wanted to get a successful player X from the draft so badly but someone else took him early and they just couldn't trade up no matter how hard they tried. So sick of that bull s***.

[Dennis 37]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

My guess is they (wrongly) had him higher on the list of internal mock drafts, figured there wasn't much chance he'd be there so didn't scout in enough depth. Then guys they were looking at were probably taken earlier than they thought (and failed to trade up as usual) so just said F it and took him. As is the practice, there'll be some stories about how they wanted to get a successful player X from the draft so badly but someone else took him early and they just couldn't trade up no matter how hard they tried. So sick of that bull s***.

If you offered a future 1st to move up, how far up would that get you.

Soon we will have surplus picks, who may turn out no better than what we have now in prospects.

[MainEvent]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

I remember Masai and Bobby getting drilled for lack of shooting in the end of season presser

[dballislife]

the thing with dick even if his shooting comes along he still wont play good defense...we need better defenders just as much as shooting, walter though has a future with us as a bench piece

[Syd-TK3]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

I just feel like they were blinded by the shooting and put that as a priority

[Chuck Everett]

It’s kinda insane that the 2 best shooting prospects in the 2023 draft might not even be real NBA guys.

There’s a serious chance that Hawkins and Dick aren’t in the league on their next contracts.

Svi Mykhailiuk still has a job. Shooters have 9 lives.

Neither Hawkins nor Dick make shots though. Their percentages are putrid.

[Jenga_tDot]

I'm still higher on Jakobe than Dick. At least he has some potential to be a two way player.
Gradey on the other hand is just flat out bad. Can't shoot, can't defend, can't dribble. Pretty sure he'll be out of the league in a few years.

[Indeed]

It’s kinda insane that the 2 best shooting prospects in the 2023 draft might not even be real NBA guys.

There’s a serious chance that Hawkins and Dick aren’t in the league on their next contracts.

Not really surprised when you look at the list of draft pure shooters from history, most of them are out of the league, and those who stayed are usually in the 2nd round with more years in college.

[Blazing_royale]

Keyonte George would be looking real good right now on the Raps

[TheGeneral99]

Gradey is the first time I feel like the Raptors drafted based on need and not talent. So im not suprised he isn't working out

Idk about that. He was BPA considering he was a top 10 guy the entire year.

If it was need, we would have drafted Keyonte George or Bufkin since we had no PG at the time.

Yep were in more dire need of a point guard or back up big.

[ATLTimekeeper]

You're right, no one can do it all the time - but that's the job.

Their successes over the "last decade" obscure the fact that Barnes has been their only homerun in the past 7 years. And yes, a big part of that was trading away picks to win the ring, but not stockpiling extra draft assets since then. "Expected values" is a crap benchmark, it's what gets you to average results.

No, that isn't the job The job is to be right more than your peers. Success in the draft is pretty weak overall, with roughly 1/4 of all drafted players having good careers. Home run success seems really flimsy when you consider how frequently teams that hit a home run can draft a complete non-NBA player AHEAD of that home run in the same draft.

The job is to outperform substantially. If you're averaging 41, 42, 43, 44 wins over a long stretch, you're going to be fired. If you're drafting guys marginally better than slot, you're going to be fired.

If you're drafting guys marginally better than your slot, then you are actually drafting NBA players. That would be an incredible feat that no NBA FO has ever accomplished over a long stretch.

But, for example, one of the more successful "B" drafters was Darryl Morey, who had one of the longest tenures in Houston without hitting a single home run in the draft.

Hitting home runs really doesn't guarantee you job security, either.

[kingz3290]

Raptors could have calmly had Keyonte George & Derrick Queen as our bench players and we would've easily had one of the best rosters in the NBA. Instead Bobby and staff continue to draft unpolished players without an edge to to their game like CMB & Gradey. I'll give Jamal Shead credit because although he has his limitations on offense due to his size , you can see he works his ass off.

Im so upset with the direction of this team.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[PhilBlackson]

I'm on record in the draft threads wanting Keyonte & Kyshawn George over Gradey (especially) and JaKobe so it's not like I love either prospect BUT out of the two I do still believe JaKobe can be a good rotation player that I wouldn't mind keeping long term, I was never and still not high on Gradey.

The comparison I made for each guy when we drafted them, was that Gradey would be another Heurter and JaKobe could be like another Neismith. Gradey seems to be on route to being a nothing player that floats around the league like Huerter (unless this particular franchise keeps foolishly overly investing playing time on him as a priority) and I think Walter can get there but he's going to need to continue to add muscle/strength and ofc consistency but even Neismith, himself struggled to do so early on with the Celtics.

The thing that separates the 2 for me, is if their shots aren't going, JaKobe still gives us hustle & defensive effort. If Gradey's shot isn't falling, he's fairly low impact. He seems completely mislabeled as a supposed "shooter" and I just don't see enough overall skill where if he isn't an elite shooter that he's gonna be worth holding on to especially when Battle does exactly what we were hoping Gradey provided as a base level (and GD doesn't) - be an elite shooting pitch out option. Nvm what our actual hopes were which was that Gradey would be basically like Kon. All that being said, both guys project as roleplayers, I just think defensive ones have greater value/impact especially if the non-defensive one is only a very slightly above average shooter and highly inconsistent as GD is.

Raptors could have calmly had Keyonte George & Derrick Queen (might be the first on the bandwagon ask Jerry Lucas lol) as our bench players and we would've easily had one of the best rosters in the NBA. Instead Bobby and staff continue to draft unpolished players without an edge to to their game like CMB & Gradey. I'll give Jamal Shead credit because although he has his limitations on offense due to his size , you can see he works his ass off.

Im so upset with the direction of this team.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

If you go back and check draft threads...I actually said I'd take Keyonte, Kyshawn and Queen so yeah I feel the pain of this take lol. Nvm Ajay Mitchell (or Furphy) over Mogbo...but anyways

I also think it's cope when people believe CMB (although I legitimately like the kid a lot), can close the gap on Queen offensively...he is an unique talent with innate abilities and feel you can't "work on in the lab". Even though I still believe CMB will be a really good player (better than GD + JW), I don't think he'll ever catch Queen tbh - even Jokic sees a bit of himself in Queen's game, you just can't teach that type of stuff.

Watch on YouTube

[kingz3290]

Raptors could have calmly had Keyonte George & Derrick Queen as our bench players and we would've easily had one of the best rosters in the NBA. Instead Bobby and staff continue to draft unpolished players without an edge to to their game like CMB & Gradey. I'll give Jamal Shead credit because although he has his limitations on offense due to his size , you can see he works his ass off.

Im so upset with the direction of this team.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watching these highlights of Keyonte & Queen make me absolutely sick. I'll never forgive Bobby for this.

[Thaddy]

Raptors could have calmly had Keyonte George & Derrick Queen as our bench players and we would've easily had one of the best rosters in the NBA. Instead Bobby and staff continue to draft unpolished players without an edge to to their game like CMB & Gradey. I'll give Jamal Shead credit because although he has his limitations on offense due to his size , you can see he works his ass off.

Im so upset with the direction of this team.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watching these highlights of Keyonte & Queen make me absolutely sick. I'll never forgive Bobby for this.

They are mid level prospects on very bad teams. If you gave Gradey or Walter several games on teams like that they'd produce too.

[Tor_Raps]

Walter and Dick have been MAJOR disappointments. They havent even looked like NBA players this offseason and should be in the G League based on their performance.

Hoping that it turns around or else this retool is taking steps back. This is what happens when you lose all the talent we did since 2019 and hardly got any extra picks to make big swings at the draft.

[dballislife]

i think martin has a chance to be better than both by next season

[Clutch0z24]

Raptors could have calmly had Keyonte George & Derrick Queen as our bench players and we would've easily had one of the best rosters in the NBA. Instead Bobby and staff continue to draft unpolished players without an edge to to their game like CMB & Gradey. I'll give Jamal Shead credit because although he has his limitations on offense due to his size , you can see he works his ass off.

Im so upset with the direction of this team.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watching these highlights of Keyonte & Queen make me absolutely sick. I'll never forgive Bobby for this.

They are mid level prospects on very bad teams. If you gave Gradey or Walter several games on teams like that they'd produce too.

This is extreme cope....George and Queen are way better than any of the guys we drafted recently....If you put Queen/George on our roster right now and take away Dick/CMB we are winning 10-15 more games. They would boost our bench so much compared to what we are getting.