Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[TrueNorth31]

Supposedly since FIBA went to this current system, that revolves around the World Cup, the regional tournaments are no longer qualifier tournaments, but are instead stand alone tournaments. While the two world tournaments (World Cup and Olympics) also do not work as interconnected tournaments.

They changed it back to how it used to be for many years before NBA players got involved. Before NBA players these tournaments were all just stand alone tournaments, and they each had their own qualification systems.

For example, Greece won the 1987 EuroBasket, and did not qualify for the 1988 Olympics. After NBA players got involved, the NBA demands changed it to all of these tournaments being connected, being qualifiers, taking place just over the summer, etc.

Example: Slovenia won the 2017 EuroBasket, and did not qualify for the 2019 World Cup

Now it's back to how it was originally. So teams don't have to worry about the AmeriCup. The only requirement that AmeriCup has now is that every team participate, if they qualify. That's because USA was starting to skip it.

You know Mirotic when I first read your post I thought you were dead wrong , but I re -read clause 124 of the Fiba Internal regulations ( from Nov 6 2020 ) -it states;

" For the Americas , all teams qualified for the Fiba AmericaCup ( 12 teams ) shall be automatically qualified for the FOLLOWING Fiba World Cup qualifiers "

The important word is following which I put in capitals. If your interpretation is right ( which I now think it is ) , following means if you are one of the 12 qualified teams in the last Americup held in 2017 ( which we were and thus participated in going 1-2) you automatically get into the next World Cup Qualifiers which start in November of 2021 for the 2023 World Cup regardless if you get into the current Americup. I interpreted following to mean you had to be one of the teams to finish in the top 12 of this years current Americup qualifiers. Apologies for the confusion ( and to Stephen Luong ) . The problem we may have is going to be down the road after the 2024 Paris Olympics , we may not be one of the qualifiers for the next Americup in 2025 ( if we don't go this time ) so we will have to go through potentially the lower level regional qualifications against the Bolivia and Belize's of the world to get back into the World Cup qualifying loop for the 2028 Olympics in L.A..

I'm not sure what Grange was on about regarding the 2024 Olympics being in danger, that appears not to be the case. Yes Fiba has a right to be upset with us for not participating in the Americup , but the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic seem to trump the importance of missing the games in a few weeks time for a tournament of relative unimportance.

[Kenter16]

Good overview Kenter on the contract situation.

A few thoughts;

Mulder's contract is not guaranteed and in fact Hollinger in the Athletic thinks he'll be sent packing shortly with the signing of Wannamaker and Bazemore.

"It’s increasingly clear that the Warriors will need to waive Mychal Mulder to have the roster space for their other players. He’s on a three-year minimum deal with no guarantees, and a smart team should claim him on waivers if and when Golden State cuts him."

Kabengele got some good news today with one of the Morris twins reupping with the Lakers instead of joining his brother on the Clippers. With Harrel and JM Green leaving Kabengele now becomes the fifth post behind Ibaka, Zubac, Patterson and Morris so he'll get out of the Doc Rivers rookie doghouse and hopefully get a small run with the compressed schedule ( yes I know Doc is gone - one of the reasons apparently is not playing the young guys enough ).

You're right. Looks like Mulder is on the outside looking in. That's too bad, I thought he played well in his short starting stint. Kerr had nothing but nice things to say about him.
Hopefully he lands somewhere he can get some playing time.
Kabengele is listed as the back up PF on ESPN. So, he very well may get the minutes to prove whether or not he belongs.

[Kenter16]

Supposedly since FIBA went to this current system, that revolves around the World Cup, the regional tournaments are no longer qualifier tournaments, but are instead stand alone tournaments. While the two world tournaments (World Cup and Olympics) also do not work as interconnected tournaments.

They changed it back to how it used to be for many years before NBA players got involved. Before NBA players these tournaments were all just stand alone tournaments, and they each had their own qualification systems.

For example, Greece won the 1987 EuroBasket, and did not qualify for the 1988 Olympics. After NBA players got involved, the NBA demands changed it to all of these tournaments being connected, being qualifiers, taking place just over the summer, etc.

Example: Slovenia won the 2017 EuroBasket, and did not qualify for the 2019 World Cup

Now it's back to how it was originally. So teams don't have to worry about the AmeriCup. The only requirement that AmeriCup has now is that every team participate, if they qualify. That's because USA was starting to skip it.

You know Mirotic when I first read your post I thought you were dead wrong , but I re -read clause 124 of the Fiba Internal regulations ( from Nov 6 2020 ) -it states;

" For the Americas , all teams qualified for the Fiba AmericaCup ( 12 teams ) shall be automatically qualified for the FOLLOWING Fiba World Cup qualifiers "

The important word is following which I put in capitals. If your interpretation is right ( which I now think it is ) , following means if you are one of the 12 qualified teams in the last Americup held in 2017 ( which we were and thus participated in going 1-2) you automatically get into the next World Cup Qualifiers which start in November of 2021 for the 2023 World Cup regardless if you get into the current Americup. I interpreted following to mean you had to be one of the teams to finish in the top 12 of this years current Americup qualifiers. Apologies for the confusion ( and to Stephen Luong ) . The problem we may have is going to be down the road after the 2024 Paris Olympics , we may not be one of the qualifiers for the next Americup in 2025 ( if we don't go this time ) so we will have to go through potentially the lower level regional qualifications against the Bolivia and Belize's of the world to get back into the World Cup qualifying loop for the 2028 Olympics in L.A..

I'm not sure what Grange was on about regarding the 2024 Olympics being in danger, that appears not to be the case. Yes Fiba has a right to be upset with us for not participating in the Americup , but the extenuating circumstances of the pandemic seem to trump the importance of missing the games in a few weeks time for a tournament of relative unimportance.

If we win both our games in the February window, we will qualify anyways. Which should be achievable. It is the US Virgin Islands and Cuba. Those are beatable teams. I am sure that FIBA will work with Canada to come to a compromise. We should just play each of these teams twice in February and be done with it.

[TrueNorth31]

One thing we need to do as a country in Fiba is to start playing together a bit more frequently with a consistent core group of players. Argentina finishes second in the World Cup despite having no current NBA players ( they have one now in Campazzo ) , but what they do have is roster consistency. In the last World Cup , Argentina had 11 players on the team from the 2017 Americup - we had one Brady Heslip. What they lack in upper echelon NBA talent they make up for it with consistency, chemistry and cohesion. They play as a team. Spain which won gold at the World Cup, had 8 guys who were on either the 2016 Olympic team or the 2017 Eurobasket squad.They run the famed Spanish high pick and roll to perfection since they practice so much together.

For Canada it's a much different story. We've had 4 different coaches ( France, Spain, Argentina and Australia have had only 1 coach each for the past 4 years ) , we've run out a multitude of different players ( nearly a 100 ? ) . I know that to a certain degree it's due to the new competition system and with the Scrubb's, Ejim and Heslip at least we've had some consistency. What we need though is to take it to the next level. We need a core group of NBA guys to show up on a more consistent basis if were to move forward. The Americup may be a relatively unimportant tournament in the grand scheme of things, but what it does do is give you a chance to put a real team together to build up some on floor chemistry. We need more of this kind off stuff, not less.

[Mirotic12]

Yeah it matters. Teams with long times of the same system, same coaches, same groups of core players, and rotating a group of players that know the system and each other:

Spain
Argentina
Australia
France

All with generally good results.

Teams that used to do that and stopped

Brazil
Greece
Puerto Rico
Lithuania

All saw their results go down.

Even in the case of USA it was very important. Before and after Coach K's same system and same group of core players, mixed with the same group of rotating players that knew the system, USA was failing to medal or getting bronze, both before and after.

2002
2004
2006 (start of coach K and the same group of core players)

no medals, or the bronze

2019 (after coach K) - no medal

But during that time with Coach K and the same group of core players / mixed in with some players that were in the system every summer, they were winning every tournament.

One thing is for sure, Spain wouldn't have won those EuroBaskets they did, if they were changing rosters and coaches all the time, like Croatia, Greece, Serbia, etc. do. So it really does help to have consistency.

[BilboBanginz]

This is pretty big news. Gonzaga is gonna be pretty damn good this year.

Read on Twitter

[TRex520]

Well, now that most of the dust has settled from the free agency frenzy I thought I would look at Team Canada's contract situation for next year... it's not good.

-Likely unavailable due to contract -
Olynyk - Free agent
Cory Joseph - His final year is not guaranteed. He can be waived after the season and that would save Sacramento roughly 8 million.
Trey Lyles - Free agent
Khem Birch - Free agent
Chris Boucher - Only guaranteed this year. Could be waived and have last year nullified. This is only reported at this point. But if Giannis gets to free agency, it sounds like the Raptors will clear all cap space to sign him.
Mfiondu Kabengele - Team option
O'Shae Brissett - No contract news yet, likely only a one year deal
Marial Shayok - No contract news yet, may not get one
Karim Mane and Nate Darling - two way deals


- Guys with contracts that will likely be available -
Dillion Brooks and Brandon Clarke
RJ Barrett (team option, but limited chance it's not picked up)
Nickeil Alexander Walker (team option, but limited chance it is not picked up)
Mychal Mulder and Andrew Wiggins (Golden State may find it tough without Klay)
Dwight Powell (The west is so good, DAL may get DEN, LA, LA or PHX in the first round)
Lu Dort and Shai G-A (OMG are the Thunder going to be bad. I think they have enough picks already!)


- Guys with contracts that will likely not be available -
Jamal Murray - likely to go deep in the playoffs
Tristian Thompson - Likely to go deep in the playoffs


The conclusion here is that I thought last years team would be greatly effected by contract situations. This years might be worse. We really need Dallas to flame out in the first round or we will be relying on European bigs. Nicholson is most likely our starting 5.

Having said all that, here is my projected roster for Victoria. I believe a few things will work out in our favour.

Guards - Kevin Pangos, Cory Joseph, Lu Dort, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Nikeil Alexander-Walker

Wings - Dillon Brooks, Dyshawn Pierre, RJ Barrett

Forwards/Centres - Andrew Nicholson, Kyle Wiltjer, Owen Klassen, Khem Birch

13-15 - Phil Scrubb, Dylan Ennis and Melvin Ejim


Still hope for - Dwight Powell, Chris Boucher and Trey Lyles.

For CoJo and Birch, I just believe they will find a way to be there. They always have. Birch has trumpeted the national program more than any other player. I really believe the would go even without a contract. He has a different mentality than most.

Like I said before, we will need some help from the NBA guys to fill the 4/5 positions. Hopefully Powell gets eliminated early. Since Nurse is coaching Boucher, hopefully they get something figured out so he can come. I would love to see the Celtics get upset in round one, TT would be awesome to have. Trey Lyles spoke out about his support of the national team, that's great and all, but he needs a contract. He played well last year and San Antonio may just extend him during the season. That would also be a huge win for us.

No wiggins? Have we given up on him already? lol

[Kenter16]

This is pretty big news. Gonzaga is gonna be pretty damn good this year.

Read on Twitter

Honestly, a good season will likely earn him a spot in Victoria. He played really well in the the games leading up to the world cup. Nick Nurse seemed to love him. He didn't look out of place.

Also, with the theme above, this gives you a chance to get a young guy involved with the National team again. Build the chemistry and loyalty that could lead future program success.

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[aminiaturebuddha]

This is pretty big news. Gonzaga is gonna be pretty damn good this year.

Read on Twitter

Honestly, a good season will likely earn him a spot in Victoria. He played really well in the the games leading up to the world cup. Nick Nurse seemed to love him. He didn't look out of place.

Also, with the theme above, this gives you a chance to get a young guy involved with the National team again. Build the chemistry and loyalty that could lead future program success.

Sent from my SM-G973W using RealGM mobile app

I was just coming on here to post this, you beat me to it, Kenter.

This is likely good news for Nembhard, and I'm sure he'll love playing on such a stacked team, especially as a pass-first point guard, but it should be pointed out that he hasn't really lived up to expectations so far, and a few other Canadians have really benefitted from a year off at Gonzaga to analyze their game and improve their weaknesses. It's almost too bad that he won't get a chance to do that, as Gonzaga's staff seems to be particularly good at developing players away from game play.

Still, I'll be pulling for him, and hopefully he can surprise a lot of people and get back to being the kind of player that it seemed he had a chance to be a few years ago.

[BilboBanginz]

Finally an update from Canada Basketball.

Read on Twitter

http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/canada-will-not-take-part-in-november-window-of-fiba-americup-20

Important note from the article:

We are working with FIBA on options to reschedule these games.

...

Canada remains committed to the FIBA AmeriCup 2022 qualification process and will resume competition in Group C along with Cuba, Dominican Republic and U.S. Virgin Islands when it is deemed safe to do so. The next FIBA AmeriCup 2022 Qualifiers window is scheduled for February 18-22, 2021.

[BilboBanginz]

Was not expecting this!

Read on Twitter

[Kenter16]

Was not expecting this!

Read on Twitter

Seems like it's just a training camp spot and the Bucks don't have the cap space to sign him to even a minimum deal.


https://sports.yahoo.com/pass-sauce-nik-stauskas-reportedly-020042608.html

[Kenter16]

Brisset lands a deal with the Raptors.
Gotta think this puts him on team Canada. Nick Nurse would have had a big factor in him signing. If the Raptors get knocked out in time for Vic, Nurse will coach and will likely want him.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

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[Hair Canada]

I guess I'd be okay with Brissett as a 11-12 guy on a Team Canada. Maybe some energy from the bench or targeting an opponent's star wing. But sure hope we're able to put on something better at the forward position than a non-shooter.

[Mirotic12]

Update on Greek NT's situation:

They are reporting in Greece that Rick Pitino and Giannis asked Vassilis Spanoulis to return to the national team and he said yes. Also, Nikos Zisis, Georgios Printezis, and Ioannis Bourousis supposedly said they will also return to the national team, if Spanoulis comes back.

Pitino will also apparently stay as the team's head coach.

The Antetokounmpo brothers and Kosta Koufos probably won't play at the qualifying tournament, but will probably play at the main tournament, if Greece qualifies.

So Greece's team for the qualifying tournament will look something like this (by my guess, might be different by a player or two):

Head coach: Rick Pitino

PG Nick Calathes / Kostas Sloukas / Nikos Zisis
SG Vassilis Spanoulis / Tyler Dorsey (also possible - Lefteris Bochoridis / Giannoulis Larentzakis)
SF Ioannis Papapetrou / Kostas Papanikolaou (also possible - Lefteris Bochoridis / Giannoulis Larentzakis)
PF Georgios Printezis / Dinos Mitoglou (also possible - Linos Chrysikopoulos)
C Georgios Papagiannis / Ioannis Bourousis / Dimitris Agravanis


That would be my guess of a 15 player pool. It consists of 11 EuroLeague rotation players, 1 EuroCup rotation player (Agravanis - a former EuroLeague rotation player), and 3 FIBA BCL rotation players (Zisis - a former EuroLeague rotation player, Bourousis - a former EuroLeague rotation player, and Chrysikopoulos).

That should give you guys a basic idea of what Greece will likely look like, barring injuries, at the qualifier.

[Mirotic12]

Update on Turkish NT's situation:

Shane Larkin had already officially joined the Turkish NT and had signed an agreement to play with them. But he got injured last year and didn't play in any games with them. However, he just played in the EuroBasket qualifiers with Turkey. So now for 100% sure, he is on Turkey's national team, and he will very likely play at the qualifiers.

[mojo13]

That's a pretty old Greek team - still gotta respect them, but assuming Bourousis over Papa (because he sucks) then that starting five may have an average age over 35! That Greek team on an NBA court/rules would be a sight to see.
Spanoulis has had a load of injuries lately too - toss up if he makes it to next June.

Never want to write Greece off, because as soon as you do you seem to quickly regret it, but doesn't Turkey seem the more threatening of the two? Something like:

PG: Shane Larkin
SG: Furkan Korkmaz
SF: Cedi Osman
PF: Ersan Ilyasova
C: Omer Yurtseven
Bench:
PG: Dogus Balbay
SG: Dogus Ozemiroglu
SF: Birsen or Ulubay
PF: Berkan Durmaz
C: Alperen Sengün

Seems a much younger and dynamic team with some good vets to lean on. Although heavily reliant on Larkin/Osman/Ilysova/Korkmaz

[UcanUwill]

Call me crazy, but I think USA should invite some players from Euro clubs in their camps. Euro stars often doesnt translate to NBA for obvious reasons, but same can be said other way around sometimes. Like last years USA national team, guys like Plumlee and even Harris looked like complete garbage, why were they even there, I would rather invite Larkin or guy like Bryan Dunston in their place, because you know these guys translate to FIBA rules as Euro leagues use FIBA rules and they one of the best players under FIBA rules at least in Europe, so its something. Its kinda sad knowing Larkin abandoned his dream to ever suit up for USA.

[Mirotic12]

That's a pretty old Greek team - still gotta respect them, but assuming Bourousis over Papa (because he sucks) then that starting five may have an average age over 35! That Greek team on an NBA court/rules would be a sight to see.
Spanoulis has had a load of injuries lately too - toss up if he makes it to next June.

Never want to write Greece off, because as soon as you do you seem to quickly regret it, but doesn't Turkey seem the more threatening of the two? Something like:

PG: Shane Larkin
SG: Furkan Korkmaz
SF: Cedi Osman
PF: Ersan Ilyasova
C: Omer Yurtseven
Bench:
PG: Dogus Balbay
SG: Dogus Ozemiroglu
SF: Birsen or Ulubay
PF: Berkan Durmaz
C: Alperen Sengün

Seems a much younger and dynamic team with some good vets to lean on. Although heavily reliant on Larkin/Osman/Ilysova/Korkmaz

I doubt that NBA players play. Starters and bench doesn't matter to European teams at all. Numerous 6th men were EuroLeague MVP. But in the case of Bourousis and Papagiannis, current Papagiannis is clearly better. Papagiannis lost 30 pounds from the ridiculous weight the NBA made him bulk up to (305), and he moves way better now.

I don't think Yurtseven would be that good of a choice for a main center for Turkey. They have better bigs than him. I would also be sure that Mahmatoglou would be on any Turkish team, if he hasn't retired. He's been one of their best players for years now.

As for Spanoulis, his minutes are being greatly limited with Olympiacos, as to prevent any more foot injuries. He plays about 10 minutes in one game, then about 23 minutes the next game, then about 15 minutes the next game, then repeated like that. He's on a very strict load management right now.

[Mirotic12]

Call me crazy, but I think USA should invite some players from Euro clubs in their camps. Euro stars often doesnt translate to NBA for obvious reasons, but same can be said other way around sometimes. Like last years USA national team, guys like Plumlee and even Harris looked like complete garbage, why were they even there, I would rather invite Larkin or guy like Bryan Dunston in their place, because you know these guys translate to FIBA rules as Euro leagues use FIBA rules and they one of the best players under FIBA rules at least in Europe, so its something. Its kinda sad knowing Larkin abandoned his dream to ever suit up for USA.

As I said before, Larkin had signed a contract with Turkey's federation last year. He's one of those American players that signs with a federation and gets paid a lot of money to play for them. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but some years back I read where most of the naturalized American players that play on European national teams, earn like $1 million to $1.5 million per tournament, and I believe I read once that some rumors were Bo McCalebb was even getting like $2 million a tournament. And just think...that's net income, and just for like 2 months of time.........

Tyler Dorsey almost switched from Greece to play with Israel, because they were considering offering him a big payment. But apparently it fell through. But playing with Greece, he just gets a per diem and expenses. Playing with Israel, he would have gotten a big payday. I mean in Dunston's case..........get like say a million net, to play one summer with Armenia, and then you completed your contract. No way are guys going to pass stuff like that up.