Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[TrueNorth31]

Funny the fines are not the same.

Canada has been deducted 1 point for non participation, but can get that back if it shows up in P.R.

The other 3 bad boys have been deducted 2 points , with 1 only point being deferred with further participation.

Not sure what to make of this ?

[Raptaz]

I'm so intrigued my team canada this time around

[TrueNorth31]

Good story by the CBC ( who have an interest in this as they are host broadcaster ) as they actually interview Grunwald for details. I compare this to the sorry efforts of other members of the Canadian basketball media who just lazily quote the Canada Basketball press release and then go off waving the flag in an empty attempt to virtual signal. Real journalism takes hard work .

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/canada-basketball-grunwald-nurse-disappointed-1.5881398

It appears Canada Basketball is hoping to go to the next window in P.R. and have been working on a plan with Fiba to this end, but were blindsided by FIBA with this announcement. Not a great look for FIBA in terms of open communication , Harmane Niang Fiba president sounds like Captain Bligh on the HMS Bounty trying to quell a mutiny.

I'm not sure the assertion that by not qualifying for the America Cup we'd be out of the Paris Olympic qualification rounds is actually correct. Basically the only journalist I trust on this file is Mike Grange. Incidentally Canada Basketball is hoping to host the Women's America Cup in Edmonton in June 2021 ( let's hope Covid is better by then ) .

I note the COC Olympic dude quoted in the story did not volunteer any financial support for Canada Basketball from the COC which purportedly has lots of cash.

Hopefully all this gets settled and cooler heads prevail.

[Hair Canada]

Caught a Dayshawn Pierre game today in the Euroleague. He's really made a fantastic jump over the last two seasons. Defensively, he's the forward version of Lu Dort. Can stay with anyone, 1-5. Strong, moves very well, motivated, and athletic. Also had a good offensive game (15 points on good shooting). Can get to the basket and also shoots it well. Really looks like an NBA player to me.

After a hesitant start to the season offensively, he's really found his footing. 58% from the field, 41% from 3 (11 of 21 in his last 10 games), 85% from the line.

Mojo, kudos for putting some focus on him. I think he's another hidden Canadian gem, only 27yo.

If Wiggins doesn't come (and maybe even if he does), I'd love to see Pierre with Team Canada. Put him on the court with Dort and Birch and you've got an invincible defensive unit.

[mojo13]

Caught a Dayshawn Pierre game today in the Euroleague. He's really made a fantastic jump over the last two seasons. Defensively, he's the forward version of Lu Dort. Can stay with anyone, 1-5. Strong, moves very well, motivated, and athletic. Also had a good offensive game (15 points on good shooting). Can get to the basket and also shoots it well. Really looks like an NBA player to me.

After a hesitant start to the season offensively, he's really found his footing. 58% from the field, 41% from 3 (11 of 21 in his last 10 games), 85% from the line.

Mojo, kudos for putting some focus on him. I think he's another hidden Canadian gem, only 27yo.

If Wiggins doesn't come (and maybe even if he does), I'd love to see Pierre with Team Canada. Put him on the court with Dort and Birch and you've got an invincible defensive unit.

He's been a joy to watch evolve over the last few years. And I love seeing guys improve so rapidly mid-career.

He came into Europe as an undersized 4, without much of a perimeter game. He has always had that defensive tenacity and energy. I recall he led the German BBL in rebounding as a rookie, which really surprised me. Over his three years at Sassari he worked hard on transitioning to a small forward and it really seemed like last year it all came together, cumulating in a great run by Sassari and Pierre picking up an All BCL Team selection. He put a tremendous amount of work into becoming a reliable outside shooter to complement all the other skills he brings (defense, energy, rebounding and a shifty inside game). He is probably the best rebounder for his size in all of Europe (a mix of speed, athleticism, strength and sheer effort).

When Fener came after him this summer I was a little skeptical - it seems like a big jump and there have been many high profile Canadian failures in the EuroLeague (Bennett, Wiltjer, Stauskas etc.) But he has been really good. He is key player for Fener - Top 5-6 on that team easily - and it is not really the box score showing it. As you said, he is all over the floor defensively and is such a spark plug for that Fener team. It is cool to watch how's he's become such a fan favorite in such a short time. The fan base just loves him, and says allot to me - they know their team best.

I never really thought much about him as an NBA player but now that you mention it I could the path into the NBA for Pierre. I always thought the elite Euro role players were best at transitioning to role players in the NBA (eg Khem Birch). It was the high usage, ball dominant Euro players that rarely translated well into a similar high usage role - and most could not (or did not want to) adjust to becoming NBA role-player. Pierre has that role player mentality and is showing elite defense and rebounding in the EuroLeague. If he can continue to prove that outside shooting, there may be a 3&D role for him somewhere in the NBA. He has to be viewed now as one of the 2 or 3 best Canadians outside the NBA.

As for Team Canada, I always felt he got a bit of the short end of the stick. He showed up often early on and participated in a number of the WC Qualifier windows, but back then he was the same player as Melvin Ejim time (more a undersized PF), but not as good as Ejim. Nowadays he is a much better wing than Ejim which has been a huge hole for Canada for years. Hopefully he has no hard feelings about riding the deep pine a few years ago and everyone involved understands he is a much different player now.

[TrueNorth31]

Here's a story on Kyle Alexander and his transition to playing hoops in Spain. It contained this interesting tidbit;

"Still, the goal remains to get back to the NBA. He was recently contacted by Canada Basketball, for whom he'd be able to contribute at the FIBA AmeriCup qualifier — which contains 2024 Olympic ramifications — in Puerto Rico at the end of February."

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/canada-basketball-alexander-siblings-overseas-1.5886990

So behind the scenes C.B. is apparently reaching out to some European based players which is good news. Unfortunately there's renewed talk of even more international travel bans and Canada is apparently considering 14 day mandatory hotel stays for returning international travellers. Let's hope it all works out.

[TrueNorth31]

Meanwhile the Americans , who are in a different pool but are also playing in the P.R. bubble are starting to put stuff together as well;

Read on Twitter

[Hair Canada]

Lu Dort is so much fun to watch. Yesterday, in another unlikely win at Phoenix (can you believe the Thunder and the Suns are almost tied now?) he made all the right plays in the 4th quarter (only played the last 6 minutes). Drew 3 (!) offensive charges at critical moments, locked down on the red hot Paul and forced a couple of tough shots and misses at the end, and scored a crucial go-ahead 3-pointer with 2 minutes to go. Watching his progress this year has been such a pleasure. He's a guy that wins games (+15 yesterday).

And It's not just the defense. he's added some tools to his offensive game as well this year. It's not just the 3-point shooting that is falling (and it is, at more than 40% compared with less than 30% last year). He already improved his handle (still room for further improvement in that department) and his finishing at the rim. And he's even showing signs of some mid-range game that was completely not there in college and during his first year with the Thunder. Gonna be a terrific NBA player for many years.

And don't get me started about his contract...

[mojo13]

Lu Dort is so much fun to watch. Yesterday, in another unlikely win at Phoenix (can you believe the Thunder and the Suns are almost tied now?) he made all the right plays in the 4th quarter (only played the last 6 minutes). Drew 3 (!) offensive charges at critical moments, locked down on the red hot Paul and forced a couple of tough shots and misses at the end, and scored a crucial go-ahead 3-pointer with 2 minutes to go. Watching his progress this year has been such a pleasure. He's a guy that wins games (+15 yesterday).

And It's not just the defense. he's added some tools to his offensive game as well this year. It's not just the 3-point shooting that is falling (and it is, at more than 40% compared with less than 30% last year). He already improved his handle (still room for further improvement in that department) and his finishing at the rim. And he's even showing signs of some mid-range game that was completely not there in college and during his first year with the Thunder. Gonna be a terrific NBA player for many years.

And don't get me started about his contract...

SGA has been a little low-key amazing as well. I thought he'd struggle a bit as the focal point for OKC with the increased attention, but he's continued to blossom.
He has a good shot of becoming the the fourth player in NBA history to average 20+ points, 6+ assists and 5+ rebounds in an age-22 (or younger) season. Luka Doncic (3x), LeBron James (3x) and Oscar Robertson are the other three.

RJ has been pretty darn good recently as well. Over his last 8 he's averaging 19.4 points, 5.9 rebounds and 3.4 assists on 61.3% TS (.514/.480/.829 split). This makes me very happy (as I was skeptical on him).

I guess the counter is Dwight Powell, Cory Joseph, Trey Lyles, Dillon Brooks and even TT have dropped off significantly this season (and someone killed Clarke's shooting).

What's your Top 10 Power Ranking (or Top 5) for Canadians at the moment? I think I'm something like this.

1. Jamal Murray
2. SGA
3. Andrew Wiggins
4. Lu Dort
5. RJ Barrett
6. Chris Boucher
7. Brandon Clarke
8. Kelly Olynyk
9. Khem Birch
10. Tristan Thompson

This is an NBA centric ranking (I know we have done FIBA type rankings in the past - where I'd have a different order, such as Olynyk much higher)

[aminiaturebuddha]

What's your Top 10 Power Ranking (or Top 5) for Canadians at the moment? I think I'm something like this.

1. Jamal Murray
2. SGA
3. Andrew Wiggins
4. Lu Dort
5. RJ Barrett
6. Chris Boucher
7. Brandon Clarke
8. Kelly Olynyk
9. Khem Birch
10. Tristan Thompson

This is an NBA centric ranking (I know we have done FIBA type rankings in the past - where I'd have a different order, such as Olynyk much higher)

That's a pretty fair order, I'd say, as long as it's not a "who would be most important to Team Canada" list, but just a straight up power ranking of Canadian players at the moment.

It's interesting that you have Wiggins at #3, and for the first time in forever, he might be justified in being so high on a list. He's been getting a fair amount of praise from Golden State commentators recently about how he's finding his role within the team and starting to do the little things to help the Warriors win. Now, this isn't the first time we've heard the "he's starting to get it" story about Wiggins. His problem has always been maintaining that kind of play for anything more than a couple of dozen games at a time. Let's hope this time it's for real.

[Hair Canada]

Lots to say about this ranking. In general, I agree with Buddha: If it's just a power ranking, ignoring the NT, then it makes quite a bit of sense. I even tend to agree with Wiggins at #3, though you know I've been quite ciritical of him throughout the years. He just seems to have turned a page. And the reason I have some hope that it's not temporary is that it includes the little things. He actually defends this year, and does it well with his natural tools. Both one-on-one defense and help defense (1.5 blocks per game). Also scoring relatively efficiently, at about league average, and I think it could be sustainable because the shot selection is considerably better.

Also tend to agree with the rest, though I'd probably put Brooks in front of Thompson despite the inefficiency. Dillon has improved his rebounding, assists, and steals numbers this year. His shots are not falling, but he's had times like that before and has been able to bounce back.

Clarke is some story. And not a happy one. Still love his energy, defensive abilities, and overall game. But please tell the aliens to give him his shot back. I don't think I've ever seen such a drastic fall. His true shooting dropped a mind-boggling 17% this year. In comparative terms, this means he went from top-10% in the league to bottom-10%. Has anyone ever dropped that much between two consecutive seasons? By the way, Brooks is also in the bottom-10. Not a great look for the Grizz Canadian contingency.

[mojo13]

Yeah they seem to be really excited about Wiggins in the Bay Area. His team mates have gone so far as to nickname him “Two-way Wiggs”. Never thought I’d hear that. I thought my commentary I was clear I’m talking NBA rankings and not the SMNT setting. But I can see how my follow up comment might have implied differently.

Like you both Id have a FIBA/SMNT ranking quite differently. As said, I’d rank Olynyk much higher for one.

It’s just an attempt to drive conversation on who we think is having and up/down year so far. I’m loving what most of the youngsters are doing but a little concerned that a few vets are getting long in the tooth, even though they down seem “old” yet. Is anyone even 30? Hopefully just some bumps in the road.

[Hair Canada]

I think it's a different story for each one of them (and no, none is 30 yes, though TT, Olynyk, Powell and Joseph are all gonna be there within half a year). TT probably mostly a matter of adjusting to the Celtics. Lyles has already been bad last year, so now he's just lost his place in the rotation. Powell I hope is just a matter of coming back from the injury. But not everyone gets fully back from such an injury, especially when you rely on athleticism as much as he does. Eventually, they're all rotation guys and some of these start to decline around this age. But we'll see.

[TheFutureMM]

RJ Barrett has had a pretty solid last 10 games averaging:

19/5.9/3.4 on 47/40/81 with 2TOs

Got a lot of people speaking positively about his defence as well. He wont be able to keep up this pace but if he could keep the 3PT / FT shooting respectable then it would go along way in helping project the next couple of years.

[BilboBanginz]

Read on Twitter

Our Group if we win the qualifiers..

Probably the toughest group? If the Jazz go deep in the playoffs then I think Gobert may opt-out.

[Kenter16]

Read on Twitter

Our Group if we win the qualifiers..

Probably the toughest group? If the Jazz go deep in the playoffs then I think Gobert may opt-out.

Tough group for sure. We will have no wiggle room. We do have the second most talent of any team in the world... so France shouldn't feel great about being in our group. It is nice to see that everyone seems to be working towards actually having the Olympics.

But all this is...

Assuming we get through Victoria...

Assuming we are still hosting... I haven't heard anything in regards to this. We are closing down more international travel. With vaccines getting delayed, do we really think we are going to pull this off? It would have to be done in a bubble. With Canada's current track record of not putting sports anywhere near the top of the priority list, are we really certain that the government will allow teams from China, Turkey, Greece, CR and Uruguay to travel to Victoria to play these games. There would have to be a ton of work done to pull this off, not impossible. Which leads to the question of the financial capability to pull this off. Will the group that won the bid look for any excuse to pull the hosting duties? Costs have more than likely, at least, doubled. While revenues will be non existent. I can't imagine any tickets will be sold. Maybe there will be some revenue from TV, but that's it.

Assuming there are in fact Olympics to compete in...

[Kenter16]

I should say that I want nothing more than to see the Victoria tournament to happen as planned and the Olympics, too. I want to see our best on the world stage against the best.

[mojo13]

I should say that I want nothing more than to see the Victoria tournament to happen as planned and the Olympics, too. I want to see our best on the world stage against the best.

As a long time Canada Basketball fan I am fully expecting to see Canada Basketball pull out of hosting the Qualifier, severely pissing off FIBA in the process, getting hit with a huge fine, an indefinite suspension and really putting themselves in FIBA's dog house for a decade, with FIBA screwing us over at every conceivable turn. Including suspending the women's team from the Olympics...

Ok...that is a little dark. But FIBA does FIBA....

[BilboBanginz]

Read on Twitter

[mojo13]

A couple notes from over the last couple days:

-All unemployed Free agents for Team USA above. Quite a crap team actually, but good for them for showing up. The USA is already qualified so they could have put anything out there. I've not sure I'd read too much into that roster per Canada other than I don't expect any G-Leaguers. Perhaps we see unemployed Canadian FAs (Caduogan, Manny Diressa, Kadre Grey, Jordan Baker?), U-Sports players and maybe even some recent retirees (Joel Anthony? Kyle Landry? Heslip? ) but I still think some Euro pros will show up for this.

- Orlando Magic signed Frank Mason to a 2way last night. Can only have two, so that puts Karim Mane or Jordan Bone as risk of a waive. I'd assume either would end up with Magic's G-League team.


- Kevin Pangos named to the World Stars - All Star Team in the Russian VTB.



- I've come down a bit off the ledge with the Olympic pools. It might not be a bad thing to be pooled with the USA and Iran might be the key to the Pool rather than the USA.
It is a weird set up for this Olympics - The teams placed 1st & 2nd in each group and the two best 3rd place teams will qualify for the Quarter-Finals.

The three 3rd place teams could easily come down to point differential. One immediately thinks that USA's Olympians tend to lay beat downs. But it is not always true - assuming the USA has their best, with a comfortable lead the USA might be more likely to let up on Canada/France than turn up the gas for point differential. Not only is the USA always tinkering with line-ups, sets etc., Canada/France should have the most NBA players besides the USA. They know each other, are not really rivals nor have any bad blood - they are all probably friends. Maybe we even see purposeful tanking by the USA to help out their buddies, where you wouldn't see it with many other countries. Maybe we don't wont see more than 10-15 points wins over Canada or France. Maybe wishful thinking....

But the other piece is Iran, who will be the worst team in the tournament. The chance for Canada (or France) to run up a huge point differential versus Iran is large (+30? +50?). More than enough to make up for any losses to France or USA.
Pool B will have no minnow to run points up on (but is at risk for a 2-1 3rd place team) and Pool C has Japan, but as the home team with some decent NBA players (Rui, Yuta) they should be able to hang better than Iran.

Further, having the USA in one's pool (and France) should mean we don't cross them in the quarterfinals (but they may not hold true as I'm not yet sure how they sort the Quarter matchups).


But as said....we got to get there first. And with way the Canada is handling Covid (one of the countries most afraid to leave the house) I'm getting nervous about our ability to host Victoria. Even PR in a few weeks is a concern right now. If Canada skips on that who knows what FIBA will do....