Shams: Cleveland and Boston have agreement on deal to send Kyrie Irving to the Celtics for Isaiah Thomas package to Cavs

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

If you look at WS, the Celtics have incurred a net loss of 8 Ws this offseason. That puts them on pace for a 45-win season. Now, guys like Brown could improve upon the 1.5 WS he had last season as he's probably starting, perhaps Morris could improve on the 3 WS he had, Irving could get back to 10 WS, while Hayward could maintain his 10 WS mark, but overall, I'd say they did not get better for the upcoming season. This was more of a future play by Ainge.

[ruckus]

Irving had the better FG%, 3p% and had the same FT% as Thomas but you choose a stat that clearly favours someone who shoots more threes (Thomas makes 3.2 threes while shooting 8 threes a game)

How is that an over pay if they weren't even going to sign Thomas back? They weren't going to pay the guy the Max contract, they got younger and took on a cheaper deal for the time being. They gave up a pick that likely was going to be glued to the bench since they are in win now mode. This was a great move on their part.

Irving had a higer PER, WS, OBPM, DBPM, VORP, WS/48 basically any advance stat favoured Irving in the playoffs. Like i said, he will prove a lot of people wrong. Including your delusional self.

TS% favours more efficient players. IT is more efficient than Irving.

It's an overpay because their production last year was almost identical. You don't trade a top-4 pick for a younger version of a player you already have.

Irving did have better playoff stats, but Irving also played alongside the GOAT. Any remotely talented player will have success in that position. IT's playoff stats will skyrocket this year too.

Yes you do, especially when that younger player is putting up almost identical stats as the #2 option on a championship level team with less usage. Thomas literally played in a system that was designed for him to score buckets. Brad Stevens did an amazing job creating plays that got Thomas good looks. Thomas had a 34% usage rate in 32 minutes and was the number 1 option. You think his production and usage stays the same playing along side LeBron and Love? His numbers will easily dip across the board.

Once again, Kyrie will now have the chance to shut people up. Save my post, he will be top 3 MVP this year.

Not taking anything away from Kyrie but, with Hayward on the team, I don't see him getting a MVP nod. Hayward is much more diverse offensively than Klay if you're envisioning Kyrie to be Curry in this scenario. And, Kyrie's MVP would have to solely be based on offense as he's not that good on the defensive end. He would have to perform to Harden/Westbrook flirting with triple-doubles level. I don't see that out of Kyrie.

[Cyrus]

Interesting here the other rumored deals for Kyrie:

Bucks: Middleton, Malcolm, First Rounder for Kyrie
Suns: Beldsoe, Marquese Chriss, Dragon Bender and First Round Pick (sticking point Josh Jackson)

I guess Cavs weren't as hindered with the trade demands as some thought they might.

[Mr Burns]

TS% favours more efficient players. IT is more efficient than Irving.

It's an overpay because their production last year was almost identical. You don't trade a top-4 pick for a younger version of a player you already have.

Irving did have better playoff stats, but Irving also played alongside the GOAT. Any remotely talented player will have success in that position. IT's playoff stats will skyrocket this year too.

Yes you do, especially when that younger player is putting up almost identical stats as the #2 option on a championship level team with less usage. Thomas literally played in a system that was designed for him to score buckets. Brad Stevens did an amazing job creating plays that got Thomas good looks. Thomas had a 34% usage rate in 32 minutes and was the number 1 option. You think his production and usage stays the same playing along side LeBron and Love? His numbers will easily dip across the board.

Once again, Kyrie will now have the chance to shut people up. Save my post, he will be top 3 MVP this year.

Not taking anything away from Kyrie but, with Hayward on the team, I don't see him getting a MVP nod. Hayward is much more diverse offensively than Klay if you're envisioning Kyrie to be Curry in this scenario. And, Kyrie's MVP would have to solely be based on offense as he's not that good on the defensive end. He would have to perform to Harden/Westbrook flirting with triple-doubles level. I don't see that out of Kyrie.

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

[refshateRaps]

The crazy part is the Celtics gave so much to a division rival for a minimal upgrade. If they just let the Kyrie - Lebron saga continue thru-out the season the Cavs may have just sunk themselves. Instead they gave Cleveland a chance to be just as successful as they were pre- Irving-Lebron saga

[Throwback24]

One positive is that the Celtics basically peaked with their assets. That lakers/kings pick which will most likely become the kings pick won't be top three, even if it was number one it's protected by the kings. The Memphis pick is probably not gonna be good either. This is it, their big three is Horford, Irving and Hayward. Meh. Now if Tatum becomes a star that changes things but we'll see how that goes.

What about Brown? If he lives up to his potential the Celtics have their own DD stopper. Brown is the exact type of player to match up against plodding wings like LBJ+DD.

Lebron James, one of the greatest athletes in human history, is a plodding wing?

His game is a lot more strength based than ever. He tends to struggle against stronger wing players who can beat him to the spot.

He's not a true mudder in the traditional sense like DD. But his style of game has become that in the half court against a certain breed of player.

[ruckus]

Yes you do, especially when that younger player is putting up almost identical stats as the #2 option on a championship level team with less usage. Thomas literally played in a system that was designed for him to score buckets. Brad Stevens did an amazing job creating plays that got Thomas good looks. Thomas had a 34% usage rate in 32 minutes and was the number 1 option. You think his production and usage stays the same playing along side LeBron and Love? His numbers will easily dip across the board.

Once again, Kyrie will now have the chance to shut people up. Save my post, he will be top 3 MVP this year.

Not taking anything away from Kyrie but, with Hayward on the team, I don't see him getting a MVP nod. Hayward is much more diverse offensively than Klay if you're envisioning Kyrie to be Curry in this scenario. And, Kyrie's MVP would have to solely be based on offense as he's not that good on the defensive end. He would have to perform to Harden/Westbrook flirting with triple-doubles level. I don't see that out of Kyrie.

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

[macNcheese3]

I think it is easy to slam Boston because they lack experience and grit in losing Crowder and Bradley, but if you look at this trade, it is a great move for the future.

They have three excellent players in Irving, Hayward and Horford that will keep them as divisional contenders

They have a bunch of young guys that are going to be great: Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown Jayson Tatum.

When Golden State and Cleveland are past their primes, Irving will be leading a very strong team that is ready to win in a couple years.

The only guy who loses is Al Horford, who probably sees this team moving in a different direction.

Curious to see how Brad Stevens manages the defense with all these young guys and Irving, who is soft on defense.

Wouldn't say Smart is going to be great by any means- solid player but great yeah right.

I look at Smart as like Kyle Lowry when he first came into the league. If you watch Smart he makes some incredible, game-saving defensive plays. His outside shooting is getting better, and he is one of the toughest guys in the NBA (even if he is a supreme flopper on defense). I hold out some hope that he will be the next Lowry. You can say he has hit his ceiling, but I still see his game needing some further maturing which will happen (still only 23).

While I respect your observations of Smart I still think that seeing him as a Lowry type is a vast misdjusgement.

[Mr Burns]

The crazy part is the Celtics gave so much to a division rival for a minimal upgrade. If they just let the Kyrie - Lebron saga continue thru-out the season the Cavs may have just sunk themselves. Instead they gave Cleveland a chance to be just as successful as they were pre- Irving-Lebron saga

The Cavs and Celtics are not in the same division they are in the same conference. The Cavs just gave up their youngest all-star to a conference rival for a guy who is coming off a hip surgery and has one year remaining on his deal. If LeBron walks next year there is no way in hell Thomas stays in Cleveland.

[Mr Burns]

Not taking anything away from Kyrie but, with Hayward on the team, I don't see him getting a MVP nod. Hayward is much more diverse offensively than Klay if you're envisioning Kyrie to be Curry in this scenario. And, Kyrie's MVP would have to solely be based on offense as he's not that good on the defensive end. He would have to perform to Harden/Westbrook flirting with triple-doubles level. I don't see that out of Kyrie.

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

Sorry I misread your original post. I just don't see Hayward taking away from Kyries shot at MVP. I'm not saying he will win the award but I can see him being top 3 next year. Basically every MVP candidate this year has good players on their team except maybe Leonard now.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

Sorry I misread your original post. I just don't see Hayward taking away from Kyries shot at MVP. I'm not saying he will win the award but I can see him being top 3 next year. Basically every MVP candidate this year has good players on their team except maybe Leonard now.

It would probably take a Steph Curry-type season from Irving to win MVP.

[refshateRaps]

The crazy part is the Celtics gave so much to a division rival for a minimal upgrade. If they just let the Kyrie - Lebron saga continue thru-out the season the Cavs may have just sunk themselves. Instead they gave Cleveland a chance to be just as successful as they were pre- Irving-Lebron saga

The Cavs and Celtics are not in the same division they are in the same conference. The Cavs just gave up their youngest all-star to a conference rival for a guy who is coming off a hip surgery and has one year remaining on his deal. If LeBron walks next year there is no way in hell Thomas stays in Cleveland.

Sorry I meant Conference, division doesn't matter when looking at competing. A healthy IT and Crowder makes the Cavs just as dangerous this season as they were last and that's all anyone knows as far as Lebrons future.

But certainly injuries and Lebrons next decision will be what makes or breaks this trade in the long run. For now the Celts have ensured they are still in the shadow of a solid Cavs team

[Raps in 4]

Not taking anything away from Kyrie but, with Hayward on the team, I don't see him getting a MVP nod. Hayward is much more diverse offensively than Klay if you're envisioning Kyrie to be Curry in this scenario. And, Kyrie's MVP would have to solely be based on offense as he's not that good on the defensive end. He would have to perform to Harden/Westbrook flirting with triple-doubles level. I don't see that out of Kyrie.

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

Harden will have the same type of season because his production wasn't tied to volume.

[Raps in 4]

So Kyrie can't get considered because he has Gordon Hayward but Westbrook and Harden can get the nod when they have Chris Paul and Paul George on the team? You're selling Kyrie Irving short man. He is easily a better player than Hayward.

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

Sorry I misread your original post. I just don't see Hayward taking away from Kyries shot at MVP. I'm not saying he will win the award but I can see him being top 3 next year. Basically every MVP candidate this year has good players on their team except maybe Leonard now.

Where do you get this idea that Irving is going to somehow elevate his game to MVP-levels (despite not showing anything even close to that trajectory in his career so far)?

He was the 4th best PG in the east last year (not even 4th best player). He'd need to take a massive step forward to even be in the discussion for MVP.

[scopy]

I find it mind boggling how were basically putting the fate of the season on the line with mediocore prospects while Boston has Tatum, brown, smart, rozier, the lakers/kings pick still, just blows the prospects pools out the window compared to ours and were here talking smack. Isn't this the same midget Isiah Thomas from last year, and the same overrated jar crowder? Hahahaha. They still have enough pieces to make a run at Anthony Davis as well. There team ain't finished. While we have a 4 page thread on a Bruno cacobcolo exhibiton again.

Hey, calm down, its only a 3 page thread on Bruno's exhibition game.

[Mr Burns]

Huh? I'm talking about Harden and Westbrook's performances last season as a measuring stick. With Paul and George, I don't see Harden or Russ having anywhere close to the same type of seasons they had last year. And, I don't see Kyrie having the same type of impact on team success as those 2 did last season especially with Hayward in the mix.

Sorry I misread your original post. I just don't see Hayward taking away from Kyries shot at MVP. I'm not saying he will win the award but I can see him being top 3 next year. Basically every MVP candidate this year has good players on their team except maybe Leonard now.

Where do you get this idea that Irving is going to somehow elevate his game to MVP-levels (despite not showing anything even close to that trajectory in his career so far)?

He was the 4th best PG in the east last year (not even 4th best player). He'd need to take a massive step forward to even be in the discussion for MVP.

The only PG better than Irving in the east is John Wall and that's even debatable.You're acting like a 25 year old can't improve he was already putting up star numbers as the number 2 option. Now he is the face of the Celtics and will be put in a system that is run by a top 5 coach in the NBA. Look what Brad Stevens was able to do with Thomas, Irving is the better player and will showcase his talents once the season starts. Like i said man, save my quotes and we will address this later on in the season.

[Raps in 4]

Sorry I misread your original post. I just don't see Hayward taking away from Kyries shot at MVP. I'm not saying he will win the award but I can see him being top 3 next year. Basically every MVP candidate this year has good players on their team except maybe Leonard now.

Where do you get this idea that Irving is going to somehow elevate his game to MVP-levels (despite not showing anything even close to that trajectory in his career so far)?

He was the 4th best PG in the east last year (not even 4th best player). He'd need to take a massive step forward to even be in the discussion for MVP.

The only PG better than Irving in the east is John Wall and that's even debatable.You're acting like a 25 year old can't improve he was already putting up star numbers as the number 2 option. Now he is the face of the Celtics and will be put in a system that is run by a top 5 coach in the NBA. Look what Brad Stevens was able to do with Thomas, Irving is the better player and will showcase his talents once the season starts. Like i said man, save my quotes and we will address this later on in the season.

Lowry handily outperformed him last season. Wall and Kemba were also more productive.

What metrics are you using to rate Irving so highly? Number of highlight reel plays?

[Mr Burns]

Where do you get this idea that Irving is going to somehow elevate his game to MVP-levels (despite not showing anything even close to that trajectory in his career so far)?

He was the 4th best PG in the east last year (not even 4th best player). He'd need to take a massive step forward to even be in the discussion for MVP.

The only PG better than Irving in the east is John Wall and that's even debatable.You're acting like a 25 year old can't improve he was already putting up star numbers as the number 2 option. Now he is the face of the Celtics and will be put in a system that is run by a top 5 coach in the NBA. Look what Brad Stevens was able to do with Thomas, Irving is the better player and will showcase his talents once the season starts. Like i said man, save my quotes and we will address this later on in the season.

Lowry handily outperformed him last season. Wall and Kemba were also more productive.

What metrics are you using to rate Irving so highly? Number of highlight reel plays?

Lowry is one of the biggest chokers in playoff history, he is not even close to Kyrie Irving. Please remind me what Lowry was doing when he was 25 years old? The fact that you named Kemba in the same sentence as Kyrie and John Wall is hilarious. Keep trying to discredit him you're failing miserably.

[Raps in 4]

The only PG better than Irving in the east is John Wall and that's even debatable.You're acting like a 25 year old can't improve he was already putting up star numbers as the number 2 option. Now he is the face of the Celtics and will be put in a system that is run by a top 5 coach in the NBA. Look what Brad Stevens was able to do with Thomas, Irving is the better player and will showcase his talents once the season starts. Like i said man, save my quotes and we will address this later on in the season.

Lowry handily outperformed him last season. Wall and Kemba were also more productive.

What metrics are you using to rate Irving so highly? Number of highlight reel plays?

Lowry is one of the biggest chokers in playoff history, he is not even close to Kyrie Irving. Please remind me what Lowry was doing when he was 25 years old? The fact that you named Kemba in the same sentence as Kyrie and John Wall is hilarious. Keep trying to discredit him you're failing miserably.

I'm going off of RPM. What are you basing your infatuation with Irving on? You still haven't answered my question.

It's not just RPM. He hasn't dominated any advanced metric. He's a good player, but nowhere near MVP-level production.

[Mr Burns]

Lowry handily outperformed him last season. Wall and Kemba were also more productive.

What metrics are you using to rate Irving so highly? Number of highlight reel plays?

Lowry is one of the biggest chokers in playoff history, he is not even close to Kyrie Irving. Please remind me what Lowry was doing when he was 25 years old? The fact that you named Kemba in the same sentence as Kyrie and John Wall is hilarious. Keep trying to discredit him you're failing miserably.

I'm going off of RPM. What are you basing your infatuation with Irving on? You still haven't answered my question.

It's not just RPM. He hasn't dominated any advanced metric. He's a good player, but nowhere near MVP-level production.

I'm judging him based on what i've seen though out the season and the playoffs as well as factoring age and potential. Kyrie is still 25 with lots of room to grow. He is just entering his prime and is poised to have a huge year. Why do you refuse to acknowledge how well he performs under pressure? He is one of the best playoff performers in the NBA and is up there with some of the greats in terms of performing in the finals.