The too early Suggs vs. Barnes thread

[OakleyDokely]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

The point is that he's much closer to being the next Harden than Barnes is to being the next Kawhi. Barnes has a mountain to climb to become an elite offensive threat. Suggs' path is significantly easier.

I think the chances either becomes Harden or Kawhi are very low, so you pick the player who you believe is a better fit your team and organization moving forward.

The Raps clearly think Barnes will be the more valuable player, especially in the playoffs. We will find out if they're right in about 5 years.

[Pointgod]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

[OakleyDokely]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Jrue is one of the top defensive guards in the league who was a #3 on a title team.

If Suggs becomes that, he will be a huge success.

[dc]

Very well stated by you. Barnes needs to grow 4 more inches to be compared to Giannis, yet some posters in this forum continue to make the comparison. Giannis now measures 6 foot 11 without shoes, and 7 feet in shoes. If Giannis was 6 foot 7 like Barnes, he would not be as effective as he is right now.

A real comparison for Barnes is that he hopefully becomes a much better version of Draymond Green. Green mesures 6 foot 6 barefoot, and Barnes is an inch taller at 6 foot 7. Unless Barnes grows 3-4 more inches (which is unlikely since he turned 20), I do not see the Giannis comparisons, but some posters continue to make that comparision.

There's other comparisons. He could be a better playmaking/defending version of Randle, though I don't see Barnes ever scoring like Randle. He could be a more valuable player because he does other things well.

He could also be like Derrick Coleman during that brief period when Coleman got older and was no longer physically dominant so he actually started to play team ball.

I think he can be a very valuable player. People are just getting twinkle eyed if they're hoping for Giannis or just trying to speak a fantasy into existence. Giannis is a true unicorn and physical freak. Barnes to me is a blue chip prospect version of guys the Raptors have drafted in past drafts (Siakim, OG).

[normgod6]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

The point is that he's much closer to being the next Harden than Barnes is to being the next Kawhi. Barnes has a mountain to climb to become an elite offensive threat. Suggs' path is significantly easier.

You're overstating Sugg's path. Its nearly impossible for guards to stand out as offensive threats if they don't have elite skills.Harden showed in college that he's an elite foul drawer. In fact, Harden's absurd free throw rate in college probably was a strong indicator that he had some incredibly latent potential as a finisher. Which in fact came true. Even in the NBA, Harden's foul drawing is probably his greatest asset as a player. And Suggs is smaller than Harden with a much smaller wingspan. What elite skills does Suggs have that will indicate he has a shot of being a true first option superstar? He isn't an elite shooter like Steph. He isn't an elite passer like Trae. He isn't an elite athlete like Rose. He isn't an elite ball handler like Kyrie. He isn't an elite finisher like Tony Parker. Seriously, what is Sugg's path to superstardom if he has no outlier skills as a guard? At least Scottie has the measurements of an elite wing player. He's ahead of schedule on playmaking and ball handling, which are often the hardest leaps for players to take to become a superstar. Look at Tatum. All the scoring skills in the world but he hasn't made the leap to have superstar impact due to his poor playmaking skills. Look at Wiggins. All the potential and athleticism you can hope for but never made the leap due to his weak handles. Scottie got the hardest part of superstardom figured out. He just needs to learn to score, which players like Kawhi and Paul George have shown is possible. Is it likely? No. Is it in the similar level of likelihood as Suggs? Absolutely.

[Raps in 4]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

It's a lazy comparison. It's become a hope on this board that he becomes the next Jrue as it vindicates passing on him.

[Pointgod]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Jrue is one of the top defensive guards in the league who was a #3 on a title team.

If Suggs becomes that, he will be a huge success.

If Suggs reaches his potential he could easily be a second option on a championship team or playoff leader on a championship team like Chauncey Billups. He definitely has first option potential it’s just not up to Harden or Curry levels but only Jalen Green is

[Raps in 4]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

The point is that he's much closer to being the next Harden than Barnes is to being the next Kawhi. Barnes has a mountain to climb to become an elite offensive threat. Suggs' path is significantly easier.

You're overstating Sugg's path. Its nearly impossible for guards to stand out as offensive threats if they don't have elite skills.Harden showed in college that he's an elite foul drawer. In fact, Harden's absurd free throw rate in college probably was a strong indicator that he had some incredibly latent potential as a finisher. Which in fact came true. Even in the NBA, Harden's foul drawing is probably his greatest asset as a player. And Suggs is smaller than Harden with a much smaller wingspan. What elite skills does Suggs have that will indicate he has a shot of being a true first option superstar? He isn't an elite shooter like Steph. He isn't an elite passer like Trae. He isn't an elite athlete like Rose. He isn't an elite ball handler like Kyrie. He isn't an elite finisher like Tony Parker. Seriously, what is Sugg's path to superstardom if he has no outlier skills as a guard? At least Scottie has the measurements of an elite wing player. He's ahead of schedule on playmaking and ball handling, which are often the hardest leaps for players to take to become a superstar. Look at Tatum. All the scoring skills in the world but he hasn't made the leap to have superstar impact due to his poor playmaking skills. Look at Wiggins. All the potential and athleticism you can hope for but never made the leap due to his weak handles. Scottie got the hardest part of superstardom figured out. He just needs to learn to score, which players like Kawhi and Paul George have shown is possible. Is it likely? No. Is it in the similar level of likelihood as Suggs? Absolutely.

Suggs is an elite athlete and playmaker. The same traits that make Barnes special. But on top of that, he has much better shooting form and has shown much better scoring instincts.

And Tatum is a borderline top-10 player. He's an elite scorer and defender. Playmaking is far less important than those two skills (Curry, KD, Kawhi are all poor playmakers yet have multiple rings). Scoring and defence are what you need from a superstar. Playmaking is just gravy.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Steph and Harden weren't Steph and Harden when they were drafted. Suggs is one of the more complete prospects of recent memory. There is 0 question about his work ethic, desire to be great and all the intangibles (motor, heart, toughness, etc).

If you can't bank on a guy like this to improve as much as possible I don't know what prospect you can.

[Pointgod]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

It's a lazy comparison. It's become a hope on this board that he becomes the next Jrue as it vindicates passing on him.

I’m detecting strong levels of copium in those Jrue and Suggs comparisons.

[normgod6]

The point is that he's much closer to being the next Harden than Barnes is to being the next Kawhi. Barnes has a mountain to climb to become an elite offensive threat. Suggs' path is significantly easier.

You're overstating Sugg's path. Its nearly impossible for guards to stand out as offensive threats if they don't have elite skills.Harden showed in college that he's an elite foul drawer. In fact, Harden's absurd free throw rate in college probably was a strong indicator that he had some incredibly latent potential as a finisher. Which in fact came true. Even in the NBA, Harden's foul drawing is probably his greatest asset as a player. And Suggs is smaller than Harden with a much smaller wingspan. What elite skills does Suggs have that will indicate he has a shot of being a true first option superstar? He isn't an elite shooter like Steph. He isn't an elite passer like Trae. He isn't an elite athlete like Rose. He isn't an elite ball handler like Kyrie. He isn't an elite finisher like Tony Parker. Seriously, what is Sugg's path to superstardom if he has no outlier skills as a guard? At least Scottie has the measurements of an elite wing player. He's ahead of schedule on playmaking and ball handling, which are often the hardest leaps for players to take to become a superstar. Look at Tatum. All the scoring skills in the world but he hasn't made the leap to have superstar impact due to his poor playmaking skills. Look at Wiggins. All the potential and athleticism you can hope for but never made the leap due to his weak handles. Scottie got the hardest part of superstardom figured out. He just needs to learn to score, which players like Kawhi and Paul George have shown is possible. Is it likely? No. Is it in the similar level of likelihood as Suggs? Absolutely.

Suggs is an elite athlete and playmaker. The same traits that make Barnes special. But on top of that, he has much better shooting form and has shown much better scoring instincts.

And Tatum is a borderline top-10 player. He's an elite scorer and defender. Playmaking is far less important than those two skills (Curry, KD, Kawhi are all poor playmakers yet have multiple rings). Scoring and defence are what you need from a superstar. Playmaking is just gravy.

Suggs is a great athlete but not an elite one. Even in summer league you saw that his first step isn't great enough to just explode like a cannon like Jalen Green. Green is the level of athlete you need to be to be a superstar as a guard because the margin for error is SO LOW as a small player. Suggs is a great playmaker and seems to make good reads out of the pick and roll and kick outs. But he is not a generational passer like Trae. Trae is only able to be a superstar because his offensive impact is ridiculous because his playmaking is literally reaching Nash levels. Suggs is no where near that level. He has potential to be Kyle Lowry level playmaking at best IMO, which is still amazing but nowhere near enough to be a superstar. I'm not saying for certain Barnes is better at playmaking or a better athlete than Suggs. I'm saying that his margin for error to become a superstar is higher than Suggs because he is simply a bigger human being. Aside from Curry who is the greatest shooter of all time all the other guys you listed are big wings. If you're big, you have a higher margin of error that Suggs does not have. That's my point. I am admittedly lower on Tatum and don't think he will never be good enough to be the best player on a championship team due to his mediocre ability to draw fouls unless he becomes a great playmaker. I assure you, if Tatum was 6 foot 4, he would have zero chance of ever being a superstar.

[bon]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

It's a lazy comparison. It's become a hope on this board that he becomes the next Jrue as it vindicates passing on him.

He was compared to Jrue before the draft though?

[normgod6]

Suggs is basically Jrue.

He's going to fill the stat sheet, he's going to defend like hell, but if you're counting on him to be your 1st option, you won't be very good. There's nothing about his offensive game that suggests he's going to be a dynamic scorer like Curry or Harden, which is what he will need to be to get to #1 guy status.

That said, grabbing a potential #2/3 guy in the top 5 is a great pick. But lets not pretend the Raps passed over the next Harden. If he was the next Harden he would've went 1st or 2nd.

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Steph and Harden weren't Steph and Harden when they were drafted. Suggs is one of the more complete prospects of recent memory. There is 0 question about his work ethic, desire to be great and all the intangibles (motor, heart, toughness, etc).

If you can't bank on a guy like this to improve as much as possible I don't know what prospect you can.

What Steph and Harden had as prospects were outlier skills. Steph was the greatest college shooter off the dribble we had seen, and Harden had historic free throw rates. And guess what. Those skills translated and are the biggest reasons those 2 became superstars. What outlier skill does Suggs have? And being a jack of all trades, master of none isn't a skill. It's a backhanded compliment if you're trying to project superstar upside

[mademan]

Lmao at holiday being a disrespectful ceiling for Suggs. This board has gone crazy man. If Suggs ever reaches holidays level, it will be considered massive success.

I feel like most here don’t realize how often a lot of these prospects (Barnes and suggs) just fizzle out.

[webeye]

I would rather have a superstar at Barnes' position than Suggs. Suggs is closer to that distinction now, but they're both so far off from there that it's folly to care all that much about how they compare.

[Raps in 4]

You're overstating Sugg's path. Its nearly impossible for guards to stand out as offensive threats if they don't have elite skills.Harden showed in college that he's an elite foul drawer. In fact, Harden's absurd free throw rate in college probably was a strong indicator that he had some incredibly latent potential as a finisher. Which in fact came true. Even in the NBA, Harden's foul drawing is probably his greatest asset as a player. And Suggs is smaller than Harden with a much smaller wingspan. What elite skills does Suggs have that will indicate he has a shot of being a true first option superstar? He isn't an elite shooter like Steph. He isn't an elite passer like Trae. He isn't an elite athlete like Rose. He isn't an elite ball handler like Kyrie. He isn't an elite finisher like Tony Parker. Seriously, what is Sugg's path to superstardom if he has no outlier skills as a guard? At least Scottie has the measurements of an elite wing player. He's ahead of schedule on playmaking and ball handling, which are often the hardest leaps for players to take to become a superstar. Look at Tatum. All the scoring skills in the world but he hasn't made the leap to have superstar impact due to his poor playmaking skills. Look at Wiggins. All the potential and athleticism you can hope for but never made the leap due to his weak handles. Scottie got the hardest part of superstardom figured out. He just needs to learn to score, which players like Kawhi and Paul George have shown is possible. Is it likely? No. Is it in the similar level of likelihood as Suggs? Absolutely.

Suggs is an elite athlete and playmaker. The same traits that make Barnes special. But on top of that, he has much better shooting form and has shown much better scoring instincts.

And Tatum is a borderline top-10 player. He's an elite scorer and defender. Playmaking is far less important than those two skills (Curry, KD, Kawhi are all poor playmakers yet have multiple rings). Scoring and defence are what you need from a superstar. Playmaking is just gravy.

Suggs is a great athlete but not an elite one. Even in summer league you saw that his first step isn't great enough to just explode like a cannon like Jalen Green. Green is the level of athlete you need to be to be a superstar as a guard because the margin for error is SO LOW as a small player. Suggs is a great playmaker and seems to make good reads out of the pick and roll and kick outs. But he is not a generational passer like Trae. Trae is only able to be a superstar because his offensive impact is ridiculous because his playmaking is literally reaching Nash levels. Suggs is no where near that level. He has potential to be Kyle Lowry level playmaking at best IMO, which is still amazing but nowhere near enough to be a superstar. I'm not saying for certain Barnes is better at playmaking or a better athlete than Suggs. I'm saying that his margin for error to become a superstar is higher than Suggs because he is simply a bigger human being. Aside from Curry who is the greatest shooter of all time all the other guys you listed are big wings. If you're big, you have a higher margin of error that Suggs does not have. That's my point. I am admittedly lower on Tatum and don't think he will never be good enough to be the best player on a championship team due to his mediocre ability to draw fouls unless he becomes a great playmaker. I assure you, if Tatum was 6 foot 4, he would have zero chance of ever being a superstar.

How many big guys that are drafted every year become busts? A lot. Size doesn't correlate to success in the NBA. I'd argue skill is a better predictor of success. Suggs is simply further along in that department than Barnes.

[Raps in 4]

Lmao at holiday being a disrespectful ceiling for Suggs. This board has gone crazy man. If Suggs ever reaches holidays level, it will be considered massive success.

I feel like most here don’t realize how often a lot of these prospects (Barnes and suggs) just fizzle out.

Getting a role player out of a top-5 pick is disappointing. It doesn't matter that most top-5 picks are busts historically.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Steph and Harden weren't Steph and Harden when they were drafted. Suggs is one of the more complete prospects of recent memory. There is 0 question about his work ethic, desire to be great and all the intangibles (motor, heart, toughness, etc).

If you can't bank on a guy like this to improve as much as possible I don't know what prospect you can.

What Steph and Harden had as prospects were outlier skills. Steph was the greatest college shooter off the dribble we had seen, and Harden had historic free throw rates. And guess what. Those skills translated and are the biggest reasons those 2 became superstars. What outlier skill does Suggs have? And being a jack of all trades, master of none isn't a skill. It's a backhanded compliment if you're trying to project superstar upside

Being good at everything still gives you a super high peak as a player. Look at Lowry at his peak, he was a top 20ish player and All-NBA level and he didn't have an obvious elite skill like Steph or Harden. Again, if Suggs is suddenly plus plus in specific areas instead of just plus his ceiling increases. Even for Harden and Steph, the elite skills you mention aren't what singularly make them superstars, it's those skills in combination with being really good at a number of other things. If Steph was just a great shooter he would be Buddy Hield and Harden would be DeRozan.

[Pointgod]

Calling Suggs Jrue is selling him short. He’s way more aggressive than Jrue and a better shooter coming into the league. He could lead his team in scoring as a rookie. We should be comparing his ceiling to a Dame/Jamal Murray hybrid with a lot better defence than both. Remember Jrue was drafted 17th overall. Suggs was top 4 in an absolutely loaded draft.

Steph and Harden weren't Steph and Harden when they were drafted. Suggs is one of the more complete prospects of recent memory. There is 0 question about his work ethic, desire to be great and all the intangibles (motor, heart, toughness, etc).

If you can't bank on a guy like this to improve as much as possible I don't know what prospect you can.

What Steph and Harden had as prospects were outlier skills. Steph was the greatest college shooter off the dribble we had seen, and Harden had historic free throw rates. And guess what. Those skills translated and are the biggest reasons those 2 became superstars. What outlier skill does Suggs have? And being a jack of all trades, master of none isn't a skill. It's a backhanded compliment if you're trying to project superstar upside

Literally no one is comparing Suggs to Curry or Harden, but if you go look at their college stats he’s more developed offensively than Harden at the same age. Defensively it’s not even a question. He might have more of a defensive impact right now than both of those guys. The idea that Suggs’ ceiling is Jrue Holiday, a player that hasn’t had great success as a second option and not Brandon Roy while Barnes’ ceiling is Giannis or Kawhi is the kind of take that gets you laughed off of non Raptors forums.

[Johnny Bball]

Such rubbish about Harden in here. He was a blue chip prospect expected to go top 5, went 3rd, and had better upside as a scorer than Suggs by any report, especially as an iso scorer and iso shooter. Just because he was 6th man on a stacked team before reaching his potential in Houston means nothing.

As for Curry, if everyone knew where the league was going with 3 point shooting,he would have gone way higher as he was one of the better pure shooting prospects ever. He was the leading college scorer, period and it was so far past where any of this years prospects were.

The league was still focused on bigs, and all you have to do is look at that draft and see how many were taken that were terrible.

And it's **** hilarious to spout off about Suggs work ethic while simultaneously ignoring the fact that its Barnes strength and one of the main reasons he was drafted higher. If you were drafting on work ethic alone you take Barnes or Mitchell.

Just so much trash revision of history.