Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[ItsDanger]

What is the point of this post?

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

Jamal Murray has a 52 TS%, is that Jokic's fault?

Coming off ACL surgery. And you know that.

[YogurtProducer]

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

What? That doesn't make any sense though. That's not what we are comparing.

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

Well we don't have shooters so that is why they are shooting poorly.

It is not Siakams fault that we are shooting horribly while wide open.

FVV - 36% (2021 - 42%)
GTJ - 32% (2021 - 43%)
OG - 35% (2021 - 43%)

Can you explain how its Siakams fault we are missing wide open 3's?

[OakleyDokely]

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

Jamal Murray has a 52 TS%, is that Jokic's fault?

Coming off ACL surgery. And you know that.

The fact Siakam is averaging the 2nd most assists among non guards, yet somehow he doesn't make his teammates better is quite the argument.

Siakam, like Jokic, can't shoot it for their teammates. They need to make shots.

[JB7]

What? That doesn't make any sense though. That's not what we are comparing.

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

Well we don't have shooters so that is why they are shooting poorly.

It is not Siakams fault that we are shooting horribly while wide open.

FVV - 36% (2021 - 42%)
GTJ - 32% (2021 - 43%)
OG - 35% (2021 - 43%)

Can you explain how its Siakams fault we are missing wide open 3's?

So all three shot much better last year than this year? If it were one or two, you could say a down year. But all three. Probably more a result of the style of play.

[ItsDanger]

What is the point of this post?

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

And how is this not an example?

Scoring (per36) and efficiency with/without Siakam

GTJ: 20.8 PTS on 62 TS% vs 17.7 PTS on 47 TS%Scores more, and is more efficient with Siakam
Banton: 16.7 PTS on 54 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 50 TS% More efficient with Siakam
OG: 16.6 PTS on 59 TS% vs 20.1 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Scottie: 16.4 PTS on 59 TS% vs 15.0 PTS on 46 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Boucher: 15.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 18.2 PTS on 53 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Birch: 12.0 PTS on 63 TS% vs 7.6 PTS on 60 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Thad: 10.7 PTS on 63 TS% vs 11.0 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Juancho: 9.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 8.9 PTS on 58 TS% More efficient with Siakam

That being said - if your bar for Siakam is "MVP of the league" then you are going to be disappointed.

But if you REALLY want to discuss Aaron Gordon - a big reason his efficiency has skyrocketed is because instead of being the 1st-2nd option of those Orlando teams, he is now a 3rd-4th option in Denver. Does playing with Jokic help? ABSOLUTELY. But want to know what else helps?

He used to take 25% of his shots from mid range in Orlando. This is now 7% in Denver.
He used to be assisted on 50% of his buckets. This is now up to 60% in Denver.

He no longer has to create most of his own offense, and he has teammates around him like KCP, Brown, Murray, MPJ, Hyland who can all shoot the basketball and give him space. A big part of this is of course Jokic, but another part of it is the rest of the team who allow Gordon to be a role player instead of a main cog.

Like what is your master point here? A good player goes from being a 1st option to a role player and sees his efficiency skyrocket? Wow - shocking.

Only 2 are outliers, Trent, Scottie, the others aren't significant variance especially in context.
Gordon with 21% career usage on Orlando and was never 1st-2nd option. It was Vucevic and scoring by comittee.
My example showcases what the difference a star can make on a teammate's efficiency and as a reference point as it also has a much stronger sample size than what you're trying to project.

[YogurtProducer]

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

And how is this not an example?

Scoring (per36) and efficiency with/without Siakam

GTJ: 20.8 PTS on 62 TS% vs 17.7 PTS on 47 TS%Scores more, and is more efficient with Siakam
Banton: 16.7 PTS on 54 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 50 TS% More efficient with Siakam
OG: 16.6 PTS on 59 TS% vs 20.1 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Scottie: 16.4 PTS on 59 TS% vs 15.0 PTS on 46 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Boucher: 15.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 18.2 PTS on 53 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Birch: 12.0 PTS on 63 TS% vs 7.6 PTS on 60 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Thad: 10.7 PTS on 63 TS% vs 11.0 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Juancho: 9.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 8.9 PTS on 58 TS% More efficient with Siakam

That being said - if your bar for Siakam is "MVP of the league" then you are going to be disappointed.

But if you REALLY want to discuss Aaron Gordon - a big reason his efficiency has skyrocketed is because instead of being the 1st-2nd option of those Orlando teams, he is now a 3rd-4th option in Denver. Does playing with Jokic help? ABSOLUTELY. But want to know what else helps?

He used to take 25% of his shots from mid range in Orlando. This is now 7% in Denver.
He used to be assisted on 50% of his buckets. This is now up to 60% in Denver.

He no longer has to create most of his own offense, and he has teammates around him like KCP, Brown, Murray, MPJ, Hyland who can all shoot the basketball and give him space. A big part of this is of course Jokic, but another part of it is the rest of the team who allow Gordon to be a role player instead of a main cog.

Like what is your master point here? A good player goes from being a 1st option to a role player and sees his efficiency skyrocket? Wow - shocking.

Only 2 are outliers, Trent, Scottie, the others aren't significant variance especially in context.
Gordon with 21% career usage on Orlando and was never 1st-2nd option. It was Vucevic and scoring by comittee.
My example showcases what the difference a star can make on a teammate's efficiency and as a reference point as it also has a much stronger sample size than what you're trying to project.

Only 2 outliers? What about Banton TS going up 4%, OG's going up 3%, Boucher 10%, Birch 3%, Thad 7%, Juancho 5%?

Why are these not relevant?

Siakam is currently making out offence 15 points better since returning from injury. Why is this not relevant?

[Los_29]

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

Well we don't have shooters so that is why they are shooting poorly.

It is not Siakams fault that we are shooting horribly while wide open.

FVV - 36% (2021 - 42%)
GTJ - 32% (2021 - 43%)
OG - 35% (2021 - 43%)

Can you explain how its Siakams fault we are missing wide open 3's?

So all three shot much better last year than this year? If it were one or two, you could say a down year. But all three. Probably more a result of the style of play.

[YogurtProducer]

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

Well we don't have shooters so that is why they are shooting poorly.

It is not Siakams fault that we are shooting horribly while wide open.

FVV - 36% (2021 - 42%)
GTJ - 32% (2021 - 43%)
OG - 35% (2021 - 43%)

Can you explain how its Siakams fault we are missing wide open 3's?

So all three shot much better last year than this year? If it were one or two, you could say a down year. But all three. Probably more a result of the style of play.

Again, how is it the style of play making them miss wide open 3's? How is our offense this year fundamentally different than it was lat year?

[JB7]

Well we don't have shooters so that is why they are shooting poorly.

It is not Siakams fault that we are shooting horribly while wide open.

FVV - 36% (2021 - 42%)
GTJ - 32% (2021 - 43%)
OG - 35% (2021 - 43%)

Can you explain how its Siakams fault we are missing wide open 3's?

So all three shot much better last year than this year? If it were one or two, you could say a down year. But all three. Probably more a result of the style of play.

Again, how is it the style of play making them miss wide open 3's? How is our offense this year fundamentally different than it was lat year?

Near the end of last season, the ball was put in Pascal's hands to be the primary distributor. And that has continued since the beginning of this season. With Pascal as the primary distributor, he has been more focused on getting his shot going, than getting his teammates going, especially to start games, which is probably effecting the other shooters performance.

[YogurtProducer]

So all three shot much better last year than this year? If it were one or two, you could say a down year. But all three. Probably more a result of the style of play.

Again, how is it the style of play making them miss wide open 3's? How is our offense this year fundamentally different than it was lat year?

Near the end of last season, the ball was put in Pascal's hands to be the primary distributor. And that has continued since the beginning of this season. With Pascal as the primary distributor, he has been more focused on getting his shot going, than getting his teammates going, especially to start games, which is probably effecting the other shooters performance.

We currently are shooting 34.1% on 14.7 wide open 3's per game, and 32.3% on 14.6 open 3's per game

In the ten games Siakam missed, this went to 32.3% on 13.6 wide open 3's per game (1.8% decrease) and 27% on 15.9 open 3's per game (a 5.3% decrease)

So can you explain why in games Siakam was injured and did not play, why did our open shooting %'s get worse FVV/GTJ both played 7 of those games, OG played all 10, Otto played 6, Precious 3, etc. so you can't use the "our shooters were out" card.+

Question 2 - Siakam has shot 1.1 more shots per game this year than last, and his assists have increased by 1.5, and his usage is only 0.9% higher than his previous career high. How does this support your opinion that he is focusing more on getting his own shot?

[Johnny Bball]

I think part of the reason the rest of the team is shooting so poorly this year, has been because of Pascal's play, looking to get his own shots off first, and finding teammates as the last resort.

It was one thing Kyle was great at, and all the great PG's do, is get their teammates going first with easy open looks, and touching the ball a lot early in the game, and the distributor getting their shots off after everyone else is going. You hear the commentators mention it all the time, because most of them have been so involved in the game, they have the personal experience.

In what way does any of that relate to missing open and wide open shots the way we are out of nowhere? They aren't just missing because Siakam shoots. Siakam's usage is the same the last 4 years. It's not increased out of nowhere.

7 assists a game is hardly last resort, it's an elite point forward facilitation rate.

The commentators talk about this all the time. Getting players touches and feeling the ball, getting off early easy shots to build confidence. If a player does not touch a ball until the last couple minutes of a 1st quarter, and then in a more intense setting is expected to hit a big shot, generally they will shoot poorer.

Great distributors are looking to get their teammates going first, because the distributor is already handling the ball a lot, and can get their shot at any time.

His usage is 29 ffs. It's not high thirties or 40 like Luka where he needs to be concerned about that. He's 21st in usage, his 10th in assist rate of those 21.

You. Are. Reaching.

[JB7]

Again, how is it the style of play making them miss wide open 3's? How is our offense this year fundamentally different than it was lat year?

Near the end of last season, the ball was put in Pascal's hands to be the primary distributor. And that has continued since the beginning of this season. With Pascal as the primary distributor, he has been more focused on getting his shot going, than getting his teammates going, especially to start games, which is probably effecting the other shooters performance.

We currently are shooting 34.1% on 14.7 wide open 3's per game, and 32.3% on 14.6 open 3's per game

In the ten games Siakam missed, this went to 32.3% on 13.6 wide open 3's per game (1.8% decrease) and 27% on 15.9 open 3's per game (a 5.3% decrease)

So can you explain why in games Siakam was injured and did not play, why did our open shooting %'s get worse FVV/GTJ both played 7 of those games, OG played all 10, Otto played 6, Precious 3, etc. so you can't use the "our shooters were out" card.+

Question 2 - Siakam has shot 1.1 more shots per game this year than last, and his assists have increased by 1.5, and his usage is only 0.9% higher than his previous career high. How does this support your opinion that he is focusing more on getting his own shot?

On the first Q: Siakam is still the best player right now on this team. You take the best player off any team, and it would effect the performance of the other players on the team, that now have increased pressure to produce, with the main scorer not available to draw attention of the defense.

On the second Q: your point of comparison for usage is 0.9% higher than his previous peak, which was the year after the championship, after Kawhi left a huge void which the team tried to supplement by force feeding Pascal. His usage jumped from 20.8% in the championship year to 28.1% in the following year, and this year it is 29%, 3.2% points higher than last year, which was 25.8%. How is he looking at getting his own shot. Watch the game. His first, second and third looks seems to be at the basket, and then he looks for teammates.

[will]

By default, someone has to be the best player.

[Johnny Bball]

An example of a star making those around him better. That should be your actual reference point.

And how is this not an example?

Scoring (per36) and efficiency with/without Siakam

GTJ: 20.8 PTS on 62 TS% vs 17.7 PTS on 47 TS%Scores more, and is more efficient with Siakam
Banton: 16.7 PTS on 54 TS% vs 19.5 PTS on 50 TS% More efficient with Siakam
OG: 16.6 PTS on 59 TS% vs 20.1 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Scottie: 16.4 PTS on 59 TS% vs 15.0 PTS on 46 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Boucher: 15.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 18.2 PTS on 53 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Birch: 12.0 PTS on 63 TS% vs 7.6 PTS on 60 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Thad: 10.7 PTS on 63 TS% vs 11.0 PTS on 56 TS% More efficient with Siakam
Juancho: 9.3 PTS on 63 TS% vs 8.9 PTS on 58 TS% More efficient with Siakam

That being said - if your bar for Siakam is "MVP of the league" then you are going to be disappointed.

But if you REALLY want to discuss Aaron Gordon - a big reason his efficiency has skyrocketed is because instead of being the 1st-2nd option of those Orlando teams, he is now a 3rd-4th option in Denver. Does playing with Jokic help? ABSOLUTELY. But want to know what else helps?

He used to take 25% of his shots from mid range in Orlando. This is now 7% in Denver.
He used to be assisted on 50% of his buckets. This is now up to 60% in Denver.

He no longer has to create most of his own offense, and he has teammates around him like KCP, Brown, Murray, MPJ, Hyland who can all shoot the basketball and give him space. A big part of this is of course Jokic, but another part of it is the rest of the team who allow Gordon to be a role player instead of a main cog.

Like what is your master point here? A good player goes from being a 1st option to a role player and sees his efficiency skyrocket? Wow - shocking.

Only 2 are outliers, Trent, Scottie, the others aren't significant variance especially in context.
Gordon with 21% career usage on Orlando and was never 1st-2nd option. It was Vucevic and scoring by comittee.
My example showcases what the difference a star can make on a teammate's efficiency and as a reference point as it also has a much stronger sample size than what you're trying to project.

what example? Vuc? You can't be serious? You've done nothing but put strawman arguments out with every post. with pretty bad examples, no facts, no data.

[refshateRaps]

Hes a great player I dont want taking the final shot or being relied on nightly to get the team out of slumps

Masai need to get the guy someone to play beside or trade him while he's peaking

[Johnny Bball]

By default, someone has to be the best player.

Pascal worked hard to be the best player and deserves to be called that. See, he has high goals about his play apparently, and with those comes a work ethic. One that is pretty elite. Having high standards but no work ethic or drive is pretty useless.

[JB7]

In what way does any of that relate to missing open and wide open shots the way we are out of nowhere? They aren't just missing because Siakam shoots. Siakam's usage is the same the last 4 years. It's not increased out of nowhere.

7 assists a game is hardly last resort, it's an elite point forward facilitation rate.

The commentators talk about this all the time. Getting players touches and feeling the ball, getting off early easy shots to build confidence. If a player does not touch a ball until the last couple minutes of a 1st quarter, and then in a more intense setting is expected to hit a big shot, generally they will shoot poorer.

Great distributors are looking to get their teammates going first, because the distributor is already handling the ball a lot, and can get their shot at any time.

His usage is 29 ffs. It's not high thirties or 40 like Luka where he needs to be concerned about that. He's 21st in usage, his 10th in assist rate of those 21.

You. Are. Reaching.

Ok, rather than comparing his usage to the extreme outlier of Luka, how about some other stars:

Curry - 31.2%
KD - 31.8%
Tatum - 32.5%
Booker - 31.6%
Ingram - 27%
Mitchell - 31.7%

29% is not far off those usage numbers, and the difference is all of those guys are knock down shooters from 3.

[YogurtProducer]

Near the end of last season, the ball was put in Pascal's hands to be the primary distributor. And that has continued since the beginning of this season. With Pascal as the primary distributor, he has been more focused on getting his shot going, than getting his teammates going, especially to start games, which is probably effecting the other shooters performance.

We currently are shooting 34.1% on 14.7 wide open 3's per game, and 32.3% on 14.6 open 3's per game

In the ten games Siakam missed, this went to 32.3% on 13.6 wide open 3's per game (1.8% decrease) and 27% on 15.9 open 3's per game (a 5.3% decrease)

So can you explain why in games Siakam was injured and did not play, why did our open shooting %'s get worse FVV/GTJ both played 7 of those games, OG played all 10, Otto played 6, Precious 3, etc. so you can't use the "our shooters were out" card.+

Question 2 - Siakam has shot 1.1 more shots per game this year than last, and his assists have increased by 1.5, and his usage is only 0.9% higher than his previous career high. How does this support your opinion that he is focusing more on getting his own shot?

On the first Q: Siakam is still the best player right now on this team. You take the best player off any team, and it would effect the performance of the other players on the team, that now have increased pressure to produce, with the main scorer not available to draw attention of the defense.

On the second Q: your point of comparison for usage is 0.9% higher than his previous peak, which was the year after the championship, after Kawhi left a huge void which the team tried to supplement by force feeding Pascal. His usage jumped from 20.8% in the championship year to 28.1% in the following year, and this year it is 29%, 3.2% points higher than last year, which was 25.8%. How is he looking at getting his own shot. Watch the game. His first, second and third looks seems to be at the basket, and then he looks for teammates.

So you’ve hereby admitted he makes his teammates better with your response to question 1. Thanks.

And bruh every scorer in the entire NBA is “shoot first, pass 2nd”. Even Lebron.

[will]

By default, someone has to be the best player.

Pascal worked hard to be the best player and deserves to be called that. See, he has high goals about his play apparently, and with those comes a work ethic. One that is pretty elite. Having high standards but no work ethic or drive is pretty useless.

Absolutely.

[Johnny Bball]

By default, someone has to be the best player.

Pascal worked hard to be the best player and deserves to be called that. See, he has high goals about his play apparently, and with those comes a work ethic. One that is pretty elite. Having high standards but no work ethic or drive is pretty useless.

Absolutely.

Then why can't you give him that just one day after he scoress 52 instead of saying he's our best player by default only.

And lol.