Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[StopitLeo]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

I agree.

Scottie as a "PG" right now would be fine if we had a second player like Pascal who could be relied upon to be a primary scoring option. But we don't.

[djsunyc]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

I agree.

Scottie as a "PG" right now would be fine if we had a second player like Pascal who could be relied upon to be a primary scoring option. But we don't.

the opposite. scottie unable to have any gravity on the perimeter makes it tougher for guys like pascal and jak to score.

[StopitLeo]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

I agree.

Scottie as a "PG" right now would be fine if we had a second player like Pascal who could be relied upon to be a primary scoring option. But we don't.

the opposite. scottie unable to have any gravity on the perimeter makes it tougher for guys like pascal and jak to score.

Right....which is why I said we'd need another player who can score like Pascal...

[Tha Cynic]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of it, not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol. Barnes has clearly shown that he's someone who learns from in game situations. I'm seeing posters just waiting to jump at any flaws he shows even though they know he's new at this and also very raw.

[Spates]

Way too many early conclusions in their thread and generally on this board lol.

Guys who have a ton of freedom and have had freedom since day 1 like Cunningham, Green, Mobley and Banchero have all struggled offensively in their careers so far and they came in more refined than Barnes. You need reps to work through kinks and figure out what works and doesn't work as you grow. Barnes has shown enough to show that one day he will be a primary ball handler if he simply improves his handles. That's the key to everything will be his dribbling. I don't know about "guard" as Barnes is not a "guard" by NBA definitions, but he can control the ball more in a LeBron James or Giannis style.

It's good to see him finally get consistent reps and we need to see more of itz not less, as much as people want to draw career conclusions after a few games lol.

Clearly folks don't remember DeMar being stripped every other time he drove to the net in 09/10. For Scottie, tighter handles are inevitable. And he needs in game reps for improvement to be realized.

[Yeezus_]

Who even knows what qualifies as a 'PG' anymore in basketball so we maybe should stop defining him as such? You want the ball in the hands of your best players, that's what it comes down to. Hopefully that's Scottie in a few years. Scottie has elite court vision as he's able to pass in traffic and with a defender all over him. Once he becomes a better scorer, the passing will open up even more.

[BetterCallSaul]

Scottie already has the tools to be a lead playmaker in transition and a hub in the half court. Whether he can be a half court "PG" will largely be determined by his ability to create offence from pick and roll play.
Not sure if anyone has the stats on that, how frequently does Scottie run offence as the P/R ball handler? What we want to see is if he can get into the paint somewhat consistently on those touches, or hit pull up jump shots. I'm more interested in seeing him beat the P/R and get to the paint in order to create offence since he can finish with both hands and turn switches into paint mismatches to draw extra defenders.
Ball handling will improve with him, I definitely see that, that's on the assumption that he has good work ethic which I have no clue about. However, his footwork is still very immature, and that sometimes never gets fixed. He's so young, it's so hard to tell. I believe in Scottie though

[ATLTimekeeper]

Scottie already has the tools to be a lead playmaker in transition and a hub in the half court. Whether he can be a half court "PG" will largely be determined by his ability to create offence from pick and roll play.
Not sure if anyone has the stats on that, how frequently does Scottie run offence as the P/R ball handler? What we want to see is if he can get into the paint somewhat consistently on those touches, or hit pull up jump shots. I'm more interested in seeing him beat the P/R and get to the paint in order to create offence since he can finish with both hands and turn switches into paint mismatches to draw extra defenders.
Ball handling will improve with him, I definitely see that, that's on the assumption that he has good work ethic which I have no clue about. However, his footwork is still very immature, and that sometimes never gets fixed. He's so young, it's so hard to tell. I believe in Scottie though

As a PnR ballhandler he finishes like 1.6/game and he's extremely inefficient. Poeltl doesn't appear to be helping, from what I can tell. He's such a bad pull up shooter that it's just not a good play for him at this point. The important thing is that overall he's having a bigger positive impact on the team in the role he's been given this year. When he scales up he's getting exposed, but that's been the case with everyone but Siakam this year.

[BetterCallSaul]

Scottie already has the tools to be a lead playmaker in transition and a hub in the half court. Whether he can be a half court "PG" will largely be determined by his ability to create offence from pick and roll play.
Not sure if anyone has the stats on that, how frequently does Scottie run offence as the P/R ball handler? What we want to see is if he can get into the paint somewhat consistently on those touches, or hit pull up jump shots. I'm more interested in seeing him beat the P/R and get to the paint in order to create offence since he can finish with both hands and turn switches into paint mismatches to draw extra defenders.
Ball handling will improve with him, I definitely see that, that's on the assumption that he has good work ethic which I have no clue about. However, his footwork is still very immature, and that sometimes never gets fixed. He's so young, it's so hard to tell. I believe in Scottie though

As a PnR ballhandler he finishes like 1.6/game and he's extremely inefficient. Poeltl doesn't appear to be helping, from what I can tell. He's such a bad pull up shooter that it's just not a good play for him at this point. The important thing is that overall he's having a bigger positive impact on the team in the role he's been given this year. When he scales up he's getting exposed, but that's been the case with everyone but Siakam this year.

Yes, I know he's definitely not good now. I was more asking about the frequency of p/r touches he gets, not how many he finishes. From there, I'd be interested in the eye-test of exactly how deep he gets in the paint, if ever, on those touches.
I remember Ingram early in his career was not good, but one thing he was good at was getting into the paint as a p/r ballhandler. He sucked at finishing anything because contact would throw him off balance so easily, but he could get there and that was more important.

[Rapsfan07]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

Bingo

[Thaddy]

Giannis had at least one full year playing point guard before transitioning into a full-time front court player. That was one of the pivotal moments in his career and he wouldn't be as good as he is without that experience. We can continue doing that with Barnes acting as the back up point guard. The lack of aggression makes him seem soft and makes me question his motor.

His defense has major issues. He isn't capable of keeping opposing guards in front of him or make defensive reads to switch and help the helper. The shooting means we have at least two non shooters like Barnes and Poeltl in the SL long term.

These concerns make it hard to project Barnes as a future franchise player.

[OakleyDokely]

Not counting Poeltl whose only played 6 games, Siakam is the only regular who has a higher net rating than Barnes. When Barnes plays, he typically finds a way to impact the game positively. It helps that he's average or above in a lot of different areas, which means if one area isn't running on high efficiency, he's got other skills he can go to.

Offensively it's going to be about reps and finding/developing pockets on the court where he feels comfortable, because right now, he really isn't comfortable anywhere other than close to the basket.

But he can basically sleepwalk to 15/8/5/1/1 which is pretty high floor for a 2nd year player.

[Spates]

Who even knows what qualifies as a 'PG' anymore in basketball so we maybe should stop defining him as such? You want the ball in the hands of your best players, that's what it comes down to. Hopefully that's Scottie in a few years. Scottie has elite court vision as he's able to pass in traffic and with a defender all over him. Once he becomes a better scorer, the passing will open up even more.

Strategy can help with limitations. We need to poke holes in the defense. As it is defenders will always go under the screen against Scottie. I'd like to see what he could create with double ball screens set high. With Jakob as the 2nd screener you could trust his ability to set at the right angle to force the defender over the screen. Scottie might then apply some downhill pressure with less resistance at the rim.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Not counting Poeltl whose only played 6 games, Siakam is the only regular who has a higher net rating than Barnes. When Barnes plays, he typically finds a way to impact the game positively. It helps that he's average or above in a lot of different areas, which means if one area isn't running on high efficiency, he's got other skills he can go to.

Offensively it's going to be about reps and finding/developing pockets on the court where he feels comfortable, because right now, he really isn't comfortable anywhere other than close to the basket.

But he can basically sleepwalk to 15/8/5/1/1 which is pretty high floor for a 2nd year player.

To be fair you can sleepwalk your way to 15 with that many minutes. He's a good player, but right now with his slower rate of improvement in skill from last year to this he's projected as the player he was in college.

[OakleyDokely]

Who even knows what qualifies as a 'PG' anymore in basketball so we maybe should stop defining him as such? You want the ball in the hands of your best players, that's what it comes down to. Hopefully that's Scottie in a few years. Scottie has elite court vision as he's able to pass in traffic and with a defender all over him. Once he becomes a better scorer, the passing will open up even more.

yup, in modern offenses, the ball is in the hands of the best player, regardless of position. Any competent nba player can dump the ball into Jokic, Tatum, Luka, Embiid and then get out of the way.

On our own team, Siakam leads the Raps by a bunch in terms of front court touches. The Raps put the ball in his hands and they rely on him to score and create for others. The goal is turn Barnes into one of these guys you can dump the ball into and he's able to create his own offense and create for others. Just dribbling the ball into the frontcourt and dumping it off to a star so he can be a "PG" doesn't provide much team value.

[BetterCallSaul]

I think it's fair to question if Barnes will blossom into a franchise player. However, he is a bonafide superstar talent. Those guys tend to break out at some point. I remember Tatum barely showed any improvement from year 1 to year 2, and then broke out in year 3. It's so hard to project, but if Scottie is serious and he takes the professional side of the league serious, he will be a multiple time all-star for sure.
He's so young, don't forget how young he is! Learning to be a pro when you're already that good is sometimes the biggest hurdle. Especially when you can "sleepwalk" your way into 15 points in the NBA.

[Los_29]

I'm gonna need someone to be real with Scottie and let him know he's not a PG. He's not dynamic enough with the ball or a strong enough shooter. He cam run some PnR but he needs to play around the rim. Until he can prove he can score outside of 10 feet. I know Scottie "thinks" he's a PG but after seeing him the past 2 seasons + FSU that's just not what he's good at.

It does beg the question of if Siakam/Scottie/Poetl fit long term as well. Because Scottie is a PF too. But regardless this PG nonsense has to stop lol

player development. you try out stuff and see what works. it's quite early in scottie's development but if you don't try it at times then there's no body of work to try and improve on. so give him some reps. but unlike scorched earth extremists here, you don't give him ALL the reps. team still desperately needs fred b/c we have no concept of anything functioning offense w/o him.

Agreed. I actually like the idea of Scottie and Pascal handling point guard duties with Fred on the bench. It's nice to go big and it's a look that teams wouldn't see often. I don't think there is much harm in doing that. Dowtin or Flynn can get some minutes in the first half. In the 2nd half you can tighten up the rotation.

[AbC?]

It's not even that just that he has to make huge leaps in his shooting and handle, he's also working with significant athletic limitations outside of transition. He's slow footed and has no burst. He struggles to blow by even the JV's of the league in isolation. His endurance/motor isn't very good either as he gets gassed pretty quickly.

If he was a freak athlete that just needed his skills to catch up, I'd be way higher on his upside. He's long and strong, but he's quite limited in very important physical attributes you want in a NBA player.

If he wants to reach his highest percentile outcomes, he should try to replicate Butler's game, esp his footwork. A much better model to follow than Giannis or Kawhi

Watch on YouTube

[sofargone]

would like to see more of this, take advantage of the space poetl gives rolling and go to your go-to push shot
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2023/02/26/0022200914/275/b5778887-1e1c-d4e0-a60c-cef4d1f3a296_1280x720.mp4

[MonkBatter42]

Just because you can pass, it does not mean you’re a point guard.

Draymond Green is a superior passer and he doesn’t play PG even when Curry is out.

Unless he suddenly becomes a great ball handler as well as the ability to blow by his defender, he’ll never be able to be a PG for a team who has aspirations of winning.

He should aspire to be a scoring wing player not a PG. The ball will naturally be in your hands ALOT more if you’re a consistent scoring threat.

I couldn't agree more. I wish someone could explain WHY there is this significant chunk of the fanbase that either thinks that Scottie is currently a point guard or can become one? As you correctly point out, since when does a point guard have subpar handles, a very inconsistent 3 point shot, no pull-up game, nor the ability to shake/break down his man off the dribble? It's like, yes, he's a very good passer for his size, but that doesn't inherently mean you're now the point guard.