2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[Yallbecrazy]

The prospects who best fit my model are:

Scoot Henderson
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Marcus Sasser

Guys who fall outside of it but could conceivably overcome it because they show enough multidimensional ability:

Brandin Podziemski
Colby Jones
Jordan Hawkins
Bilal Coulibaly (needs to be stashed for 3 years)

and to a lesser extent Anthony Black

Guys who are risks or lack multidimensionality and/or efficiency:

Nick Smith Jr.
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Jett Howard
Terquavion Smith
Sidy Cissoko

edit: I moved Hawkins to the 2nd tier because I think the potential for high offensive output is so good that he can be a plus player with just a modest improvement defensively and to other areas of his game, but that improvement needs to occur.

Can I ask why you are low on Cissoko? He seems far superior to Coulibaly and his advanced stats were better than Scoot's.

I'd like to look deeper into Cissoko's advanced stats. Where are you finding these?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/c/cissosi01d.html

[Dalek]

The prospects who best fit my model are:

Scoot Henderson
Cason Wallace
Kobe Bufkin
Marcus Sasser

Guys who fall outside of it but could conceivably overcome it because they show enough multidimensional ability:

Brandin Podziemski
Colby Jones
Jordan Hawkins
Bilal Coulibaly (needs to be stashed for 3 years)

and to a lesser extent Anthony Black

Guys who are risks or lack multidimensionality and/or efficiency:

Nick Smith Jr.
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Jett Howard
Terquavion Smith
Sidy Cissoko

edit: I moved Hawkins to the 2nd tier because I think the potential for high offensive output is so good that he can be a plus player with just a modest improvement defensively and to other areas of his game, but that improvement needs to occur.

The guys you have listed are all interesting and the first two ranks are players that I would consider as hybrids. They would be like Scottie Barnes, in that you could put them on a NBA floor and they would be productive in some capacity from day one. Their high floor does negate their high ceiling where they could reach a high level. The only questionable ones are Bufkin, who kind of had a late run, and is not super proven, and Sasser who is a bit older and you wonder if he slots more as a smaller combo guard.

The player in our range who stands out is Anthony Black. Despite the lack of three pointers made and shot creation, he just looks like the next Dyson Daniels. He is a floor general and the defense is elite, while he has a knack for drawing fouls at a high rate and and can finish given his size. He isn't a guy who stands around when he doesn't have the ball and can cut and make plays anywhere on the court. Maybe he amounts to a Ben Simmons, but with his competitiveness he can be better than Ben.

I like that he is a five-star recruit and outshone Nick Smith Jr. and Ricky Council for the year. Arkansas was a weird offensive team with zero spacing, but Black kind of surpassed expectations with his effort and motor. There is one clip where I see the pro potential is at the 1:06 he is tracking Jordan Hawkins and he blasts past two screens and closes so fast that Hawkins is forced to have give up the ball once he has this big defender in his grill. Toronto is going to love a guy like that and think they can develop his shot in time:

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Black's ability as a perimeter defender is undeniable even at his size he was a unicorn freshman defender. The thing I like most about Black is the rhythm, flow/pace he plays the game. Makes a lot of high DoD passes but also screws up a lot as a passer and decision maker which is discouraging for a guy people are projecting as a jumbo PG. Obviously with Black it's really all about the shooting. It's bad. Very bad. I don't know how I'd be able to live with adding a guy who can't shoot to this team.

Same here. This team is not built for threes and adding a non-shooter is scary but not unprecedented under Bobby/Ujiri. Why I consider him is that I confident to say that he will at least make the passes that Fred always seemed to miss or avoid. He also is a quick processor like Scottie so the ball won't stick with him at PG (he has good height to see over defenses). Lastly, he has that knack to draw fouls which while it doesn't replace three point shooting, it does offer a threat on offense.

[Dalek]

A young Rubio would be great for this squad. 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Facilitator and great defensive guard. The closest thing to that type is Cason Wallace but I would prefer Rubio's vision. Another good fit would be one of the Balls. Lonzo or LaMelo. Tall, creative passers, pesky defenders with a long wingspan. The closest in this draft might be Sidy.

We have more options if we want to go lanky shooter/ scorer that can defend.

By that criteria, I'd argue that Anthony Black is a better facilitator and just bigger than Wallace. Jalen Hood-Schifino is also going to be worth thinking about although his defense is a bit spotty compared to Black and Wallace.

I still have Wallace as the top option in our range, but I am guessing he goes higher than 9th in the draft.

[Rapsfan07]

Can I ask why you are low on Cissoko? He seems far superior to Coulibaly and his advanced stats were better than Scoot's.

I'd like to look deeper into Cissoko's advanced stats. Where are you finding these?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/c/cissosi01d.html

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[Psubs]

A young Rubio would be great for this squad. 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Facilitator and great defensive guard. The closest thing to that type is Cason Wallace but I would prefer Rubio's vision. Another good fit would be one of the Balls. Lonzo or LaMelo. Tall, creative passers, pesky defenders with a long wingspan. The closest in this draft might be Sidy.

We have more options if we want to go lanky shooter/ scorer that can defend.

By that criteria, I'd argue that Anthony Black is a better facilitator and just bigger than Wallace. Jalen Hood-Schifino is also going to be worth thinking about although his defense is a bit spotty compared to Black and Wallace.

I still have Wallace as the top option in our range, but I am guessing he goes higher than 9th in the draft.

3 - Wemby, Brandon Miller, Scoot

Other players that could go before Cason Wallace:

Jarace, Hendricks, Nick Smith, Thompsons x 2, Black, Whitmore, Dick. That would put him at #12.

[Dalek]

A young Rubio would be great for this squad. 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Facilitator and great defensive guard. The closest thing to that type is Cason Wallace but I would prefer Rubio's vision. Another good fit would be one of the Balls. Lonzo or LaMelo. Tall, creative passers, pesky defenders with a long wingspan. The closest in this draft might be Sidy.

We have more options if we want to go lanky shooter/ scorer that can defend.

By that criteria, I'd argue that Anthony Black is a better facilitator and just bigger than Wallace. Jalen Hood-Schifino is also going to be worth thinking about although his defense is a bit spotty compared to Black and Wallace.

I still have Wallace as the top option in our range, but I am guessing he goes higher than 9th in the draft.

3 - Wemby, Brandon Miller, Scoot

Other players that could go before Cason Wallace:

Jarace, Hendricks, Nick Smith, Thompsons x 2, Black, Whitmore, Dick. That would put him at #12.

Totally possible as the mocks looks that way, but Nick Smith Jr. stock took a hit this year and it is about his lack of freethrows. Kind of low for a SG so I bump him past 12 because it was a very shakey year and the knee issues are concerning.

Black seems like a stretch to be in the top ten because of the lack of three - only Masai can think he can heal a poor 3P shooter (see Scottie).

Personally I think it is the top three plus Amen Thompson and then Cason Wallace or Jarace Walker in the 5/6 spot. I put Amen in that first tier, but then it becomes who can be a valuable role player. Jarace and Cason are those defensive/playmaking types that might intrigue teams beause they have some real outlier skills to defend and be high level starters.

After that, I feel like it is a flat third tier of role players. Shooters (Dick, Murray, Howard), combos (Bufkin, Smith, JHS), 3 and D guys (Hendricks, Whitmore, Whitehead). Anthony Black is the Raptor's man of mystery who probably has the widest range of draft value.

[BoyzNTheHood]

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We haven't discussed undrafted signings that much. Here a list of prospects who might go undrafted that mgmt should consider signing or an invite to SL.

Mike Miles jr.
Ben Sheppard
Oso Ighodaro 
Jalen Pickett
Isaiah Wong
Jordan Miller

I've mentioned Wong and Miller pre-tourney. I think at 6'7 Miller might be the better choice. Also him going for 29 points on perfect shooting helped. He's 23 but ready to play.

Jalen Pickett should be taken in 2nd.

I have Pickett in front of Miller and Wong, but I like all 3 of them.

[Rapsfan07]

A young Rubio would be great for this squad. 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Facilitator and great defensive guard. The closest thing to that type is Cason Wallace but I would prefer Rubio's vision. Another good fit would be one of the Balls. Lonzo or LaMelo. Tall, creative passers, pesky defenders with a long wingspan. The closest in this draft might be Sidy.

We have more options if we want to go lanky shooter/ scorer that can defend.

By that criteria, I'd argue that Anthony Black is a better facilitator and just bigger than Wallace. Jalen Hood-Schifino is also going to be worth thinking about although his defense is a bit spotty compared to Black and Wallace.

I still have Wallace as the top option in our range, but I am guessing he goes higher than 9th in the draft.

3 - Wemby, Brandon Miller, Scoot

Other players that could go before Cason Wallace:

Jarace, Hendricks, Nick Smith, Thompsons x 2, Black, Whitmore, Dick. That would put him at #12.

Yeah I can't see Wallace at #12.

1. Wemby
2. Henderson
3. Miller
4. Amen

After this it gets tricky.

5. Walker/Whitmore/Ausar
6. Whitmore/Walker/Ausar
7. Ausar/Whitmore
8. Wallace/Hendricks
9. Hendricks/Wallace
10. Black
11. Dick
12. George
13. Smith Jr
14. ???

#14 could literally be ANYBODY. Sensabaugh, Howard, Rupert, Hawkins... its anyone's guess. Picks 5-7 are all interchangeable and picks 10-13 are as well. But I am pretty confident that Wallace and Hendricks are the best players in that third tier. IMO Smith Jr is guaranteed to slide but at that 13-14 range, you pretty much have to take him or move back.

We could be picking in that range and honestly there is very little separating picks 14-30 if the draft shakes out like the mocks. Later in the draft there could be guys like Colby Jones, Kobe Bufkin, Brandin Podziemski, Kris Murray, Sidy Cissoko, Marcus Sasser and Trayce Jackson-Davis depending on how workouts and combine go. But as of right now, I really can't see a reality where all of these guys are not first round picks when it's all said and done. Although they all have varying degrees of talent and potential, I would take them all over guys like Hood-Schifino, GG Jackson, Maxwell Lewis, Dariq Whitehead, Derrick Lively and the other guys projected to go 20-30.

[KL78192020]

has Leonard miller improved?

[Kevin Willis]

has Leonard miller improved?

Definitely. By a good amount.

[WuTang_CMB]

A young Rubio would be great for this squad. 6'4" with a 6'9" wingspan. Facilitator and great defensive guard. The closest thing to that type is Cason Wallace but I would prefer Rubio's vision. Another good fit would be one of the Balls. Lonzo or LaMelo. Tall, creative passers, pesky defenders with a long wingspan. The closest in this draft might be Sidy.

We have more options if we want to go lanky shooter/ scorer that can defend.

I tend to agree. We lack real nba guard depth. Having a 19 yr old guard/forward that can play make like Sidy would be a nice added addition. I watched more tape last night, full games... and he looked like an NBA player out there. Highly skilled.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'd like to look deeper into Cissoko's advanced stats. Where are you finding these?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/c/cissosi01d.html

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Looking at these, Cissoko's WS/48 is a red flag.

.008 and -.041 in the showcase games. I know his rebounding is garbage, but he should be considered more of a project and a multi-year Gleague player.

I'm higher on Miller, who is a stringbean that eats glass and finishes in the paint. Motor and toughness travel.

[Rapsfan07]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/c/cissosi01d.html

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Looking at these, Cissoko's WS/48 is a red flag.

.008 and -.041 in the showcase games. I know his rebounding is garbage, but he should be considered more of a project and a multi-year Gleague player.

I'm higher on Miller, who is a stringbean that eats glass and finishes in the paint. Motor and toughness travel.

Yeah, I don't get the Cissoko hype. I think he has some tools and the potential be a decent NBA rotation guy if he lands with the right team and puts in the work but if I'm going to make that sort of a gamble, I've come around on Leonard Miller. A huge wing player who can rebound and score in the paint with relative ease.

His shooting isn't great but if he can get to 35-36 3ptFG and adequate perimeter defense, I think he could return great value compared to where he was taken, which I anticipate to be 25-30. I do think he could be a riser come workouts and combine though; NBA GMs love their big wings.

I do like Cissoko but I can't rationalize taking him over guys like Colby Jones or Kobe Bufkin. But if those guys are off the board and you want to take a chance on an SG, he's your guy for sure.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

You know I really hate how people at Uconn are saying Hawkins is up there with the best shooters in Uconn history and alluding to guys like Ray Allen.

Allen shot 52/45 and outperformed Hawkins in every way imaginable and yet people are now making the comparison and it's not fair to either of them. Hawkins isn't even close to where Allen was at the same age.

[dozo]

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[Kevin Willis]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Looking at these, Cissoko's WS/48 is a red flag.

.008 and -.041 in the showcase games. I know his rebounding is garbage, but he should be considered more of a project and a multi-year Gleague player.

I'm higher on Miller, who is a stringbean that eats glass and finishes in the paint. Motor and toughness travel.

Yeah, I don't get the Cissoko hype. I think he has some tools and the potential be a decent NBA rotation guy if he lands with the right team and puts in the work but if I'm going to make that sort of a gamble, I've come around on Leonard Miller. A huge wing player who can rebound and score in the paint with relative ease.

His shooting isn't great but if he can get to 35-36 3ptFG and adequate perimeter defense, I think he could return great value compared to where he was taken, which I anticipate to be 25-30. I do think he could be a riser come workouts and combine though; NBA GMs love their big wings.

I do like Cissoko but I can't rationalize taking him over guys like Colby Jones or Kobe Bufkin. But if those guys are off the board and you want to take a chance on an SG, he's your guy for sure.

But I have a question for both of you, would Miller be redundant on this team?

Colby Jones makes sense. We can get an older version of what we need OR a younger version that has the potential to full what we need. That's where we are for our pick right now. No Cason. No Black. No Gradey. No Wallace. None of those guys will be around.

[HumbleRen]

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Damn. His game is really aesthetically pleasing to the eye lol.

[Dalek]

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Damn. His game is really aesthetically pleasing to the eye lol.

I really like his floor game, and he knows how to work with a Jak-like big in pick and roll. I just don't think his defense was as good as it should have been - especially against smaller quick guards. Also, he almost always goes for a pull-up two rather than going into contact. He is solid, but I do want Toronto's next guard to have some real rim pressure.

[Psubs]

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Damn. His game is really aesthetically pleasing to the eye lol.

He looks smooth in the highlights and the %'s were okay but it's BAFFLING why they were so worse on offense when he's on the court. Any other guard filled in and was better. TJD must've had so much gravity and influence that played better with the others. It's like he was just filling space. So weird.

[Dalek]

In honour of him declaring, and to remind folks of what he was before his injuries this year: Dariq Whitehead at Monteverde:

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Former Scottie and Precious teammate
At Duke despite injuries still averaged 42% from three and 79 FT%
Still only 18YO

Dariq could be the next draftee who was probably top five coming into the class but injuries derailed his outlook.

People look back at OG and his injuries that led to him being 20s pick. To me, we didn't see a healthy Whitehead all year. Could be a steal in our range. Watching him play, he reminds me a lot of Harrison Barnes. Just a shooting guard/forward who will have a long career in the NBA assuming his injuries aren't a long-term concern.