Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[ItsDanger]

I don't believe the hip surgery was ever announced publicly in summer 2022 from brief online search. Hmmm

His camp kept it a secret. Shady stuff from them but understandable considering he was in a contract year.

However this makes Masai's reluctance to trade him earlier even more questionable. Hips can be a difficult injury to fully recover from, especially at the end of a long season, i.e. not reliable.

[Los_29]

I mean ****, he been a shell of himself after he made that all star campaign for those 3-4 months.

His trainer literally said he had to get hip surgery after that season.

This is interesting. What did his trainer say and where did you read this?

I'm glad Nurse is gone, he was 100% playing these guys through injuries.

Okay, so nothing then. I thought there was some groundbreaking news that helps support your argument.

The trainer “literally said he had surgery.” What earth shattering news.

[ConSarnit]

I mean ****, he been a shell of himself after he made that all star campaign for those 3-4 months.

His trainer literally said he had to get hip surgery after that season.

This is interesting. What did his trainer say and where did you read this?

I don't think the level Fred was playing at was the problem per se moreso the team had virtually no back up point guard and a terrible bench. So I know it's taboo to say but the team actually played better with him on the court verse off it. Which gets back to Masai asking for wins and not giving the coaching staff the tools for it. Especially when the alternatives are fringe nba players like Flynn, dowtin, and Dalano.

I guess we’ll get answers on FVV this season. Did Fred wear down here because of minutes or is this now who he is because of injury? I’m going to assume Houston isn’t going to play him 36mpg so there’s a chance he’s back to high 30’s 3pt shooter + good defense if it really was the minutes causing problems.

Either way I think there is a real chance this team’s offense looks bad again and I wonder who the FVV haters will move onto as their next scapegoat? Without FVV a lot of posters are going to need to find a new schtick if for some miraculous reason our offensive woes haven’t been fixed by his removal. All I know is that whatever happens it’s still going to be real annoying.

[sbsat]

Either way I think there is a real chance this team’s offense looks bad again and I wonder who the FVV haters will move onto as their next scapegoat? Without FVV a lot of posters are going to need to find a new schtick if for some miraculous reason our offensive woes haven’t been fixed by his removal. All I know is that whatever happens it’s still going to be real annoying.

without a doubt, siakam will be the new target

[HumbleRen]

This is interesting. What did his trainer say and where did you read this?

I'm glad Nurse is gone, he was 100% playing these guys through injuries.

Okay, so nothing then. I thought there was some groundbreaking news that helps support your argument.

The trainer “literally said he had surgery.” What earth shattering news.

Um, considering you spent that entire off season saying FVV did not get surgery, I reckon it’s breaking news to you.

Seems like you’ve been wrong about a lot of things these last 2 years.

[will]

Not sure why there’s a blame game going on. FVV and Scottie were both dog **** last year. Scottie was immature and FVV’s body just broke down on him. That’s why you don’t ask average players to play at an all star level, their bodies can’t maintain that level of load on them.

This whole narrative that Scottie can’t play well without Siakam or FVV is also silly.

Scottie averaged 16.5/8/3 and shot 53% from the FG without Siakam. Averaged 15.5/7.5/4 and shot 50% FG without FVV. This was his rookie year where the sample size was larger than last years sample size. Do we just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn’t play well without one of them ? Of course not.

Some people do just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn't play well without one of them.

That's why I laugh at them.

[HumbleRen]

I don't believe the hip surgery was ever announced publicly in summer 2022 from brief online search. Hmmm

His camp kept it a secret. Shady stuff from them but understandable considering he was in a contract year.

However this makes Masai's reluctance to trade him earlier even more questionable. Hips can be a difficult injury to fully recover from, especially at the end of a long season, i.e. not reliable.

Who knows. I’m frankly tired of trying to understand Masai’s thought process.

He’s clearly just winging it, as long as he’s staying in the middle of the pack, he’s content with the direction I guess.

[will]

Either way I think there is a real chance this team’s offense looks bad again and I wonder who the FVV haters will move onto as their next scapegoat? Without FVV a lot of posters are going to need to find a new schtick if for some miraculous reason our offensive woes haven’t been fixed by his removal. All I know is that whatever happens it’s still going to be real annoying.

without a doubt, siakam will be the new target

I done been targeting him for constantly going 1 for 2 at the line, and yelling aaaayYYYYYyEEEEeee when he drives weakly to the rim.

[VanWest82]

I remain surprised at all these complaints that Scottie should’ve gotten the ball more last year. He very clearly lacked the skill development to be any kind of offensive hub.

Hopefully, this year will be different. Hopefully, his handle will be tighter and he’ll be able to create a shot off the bounce. Either way, Scottie needs to earn his reps and I think he will eventually. We just have to have some patience. We drafted Scottie not Cade.

[pingpongrac]

Not sure why there’s a blame game going on. FVV and Scottie were both dog **** last year. Scottie was immature and FVV’s body just broke down on him. That’s why you don’t ask average players to play at an all star level, their bodies can’t maintain that level of load on them.

This whole narrative that Scottie can’t play well without Siakam or FVV is also silly.

Scottie averaged 16.5/8/3 and shot 53% from the FG without Siakam. Averaged 15.5/7.5/4 and shot 50% FG without FVV. This was his rookie year where the sample size was larger than last years sample size. Do we just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn’t play well without one of them ? Of course not.

No, but you also don't completely ignore the data (and what everyone saw) from last season either.

21/22
With Siakam: 1849 MIN, 800 PTS (55.9 TS%)
Without Siakam: 870 MIN, 379 PTS (54.3 TS%)

With FVV: 1723 MIN, 762 PTS (55.5 TS%)
Without FVV: 996 MIN, 417 PTS (55.4 TS%)

With both: 1146 MIN, 496 PTS (56.1 TS%)
Without both: 293 MIN, 113 PTS (54.3 TS%)

22/23
With Siakam: 1746 MIN, 788 PTS (55.3 TS%)
Without Siakam: 807 MIN, 336 PTS (46.8 TS%)

With FVV: 1674 MIN, 787 PTS (55.6 TS%)
Without FVV: 879, 337 PTS (46.3 TS%)

With both: 1247 MIN, 612 PTS (58.6 TS%)
Without both: 380 MIN, 161 PTS (46.5 TS%)

Scottie struggled mightily without Siakam and/or FVV last season and he often just deferred to other (worse) players in those minutes, which was disappointing considering what we saw from him in limited minutes as "the guy" or option #2 in his rookie season. The sample sizes (with/without Siakam, with/without FVV, with/without both) are damn near identical in both his rookie and sophomore seasons too, so the argument that the sample size in his rookie season holds more weight is false. The only notable difference in any of those sample sizes was ~100 more minutes (or an increase of 30%) without both Siakam and FVV last season in large part due to the fact that he just played a bit more minutes overall.

We have ~3500 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing with Siakam or FVV – and ~2400 minutes with both – where he scores more on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 56 to 57 range whereas we have ~1800 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing without Siakam or FVV – and ~700 minutes without both – where he scores less on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 50 to 51 range. One should expect a drop-off in a player's efficiency when he (who was typically the 3rd/4th option) is playing without one or two of the best offensive players on his team, but the difference we saw in Scottie last season with/without Siakam and/or FVV was stark. A bit of it can be chalked up to the fact that he was hobbled and just off for most of the first ~30 games last year (which was also during a time where a large chunk of minutes came without Siakam and/or FVV), but more than anything Scottie just didn't improve enough over his first offseason to keep up with the league. It was a let-down because of the high expectations that a lot of people had for Scottie last season, but it's something we see in nearly every future star's second season. He looked very good in our first preseason game the other night – and most importantly, he looked like he wanted to be the best player on the court – so I don't think the numbers of the past are going to mean much for this season and beyond, but Scottie did very little last season to warrant an increased role.

[tsherkin]

He had some months last year where he nailed around 3 threes a game at 36-38%. Teams respected his shot all year. A couple dreadful months shooting the ball does not erase 4 years of good-great three point shooting.

You attack a slump. He shot well in 2 full months of the year and was crap outside of that. He was also worse than usual at getting to the rim and finishing inside the arc. He had a bad year. An uncharacteristically bad year. If you don't think teams adjusted to that, you're deluding yourself. Slump years happen, man, and defenses will adjust if you're not punishing them... and Fred was shooting a percentage he'd shot before from above the break, as I've outlined earlier.

[HumbleRen]

Not sure why there’s a blame game going on. FVV and Scottie were both dog **** last year. Scottie was immature and FVV’s body just broke down on him. That’s why you don’t ask average players to play at an all star level, their bodies can’t maintain that level of load on them.

This whole narrative that Scottie can’t play well without Siakam or FVV is also silly.

Scottie averaged 16.5/8/3 and shot 53% from the FG without Siakam. Averaged 15.5/7.5/4 and shot 50% FG without FVV. This was his rookie year where the sample size was larger than last years sample size. Do we just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn’t play well without one of them ? Of course not.

No, but you also don't completely ignore the data (and what everyone saw) from last season either.

21/22
With Siakam: 1849 MIN, 800 PTS (55.9 TS%)
Without Siakam: 870 MIN, 379 PTS (54.3 TS%)

With FVV: 1723 MIN, 762 PTS (55.5 TS%)
Without FVV: 996 MIN, 417 PTS (55.4 TS%)

With both: 1146 MIN, 496 PTS (56.1 TS%)
Without both: 293 MIN, 113 PTS (54.3 TS%)

22/23
With Siakam: 1746 MIN, 788 PTS (55.3 TS%)
Without Siakam: 807 MIN, 336 PTS (46.8 TS%)

With FVV: 1674 MIN, 787 PTS (55.6 TS%)
Without FVV: 879, 337 PTS (46.3 TS%)

With both: 1247 MIN, 612 PTS (58.6 TS%)
Without both: 380 MIN, 161 PTS (46.5 TS%)

Scottie struggled mightily without Siakam and/or FVV last season and he often just deferred to other (worse) players in those minutes, which was disappointing considering what we saw from him in limited minutes as "the guy" or option #2 in his rookie season. The sample sizes (with/without Siakam, with/without FVV, with/without both) are damn near identical in both his rookie and sophomore seasons too, so the argument that the sample size in his rookie season holds more weight is false. The only notable difference in any of those sample sizes was ~100 more minutes (or an increase of 30%) without both Siakam and FVV last season in large part due to the fact that he just played a bit more minutes overall.

We have ~3500 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing with Siakam or FVV – and ~2400 minutes with both – where he scores more on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 56 to 57 range whereas we have ~1800 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing without Siakam or FVV – and ~700 minutes without both – where he scores less on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 50 to 51 range. One should expect a drop-off in a player's efficiency when he (who was typically the 3rd/4th option) is playing without one or two of the best offensive players on his team, but the difference we saw in Scottie last season with/without Siakam and/or FVV was stark. A bit of it can be chalked up to the fact that he was hobbled and just off for most of the first ~30 games last year (which was also during a time where a large chunk of minutes came without Siakam and/or FVV), but more than anything Scottie just didn't improve enough over his first offseason to keep up with the league. It was a let-down because of the high expectations that a lot of people had for Scottie last season, but it's something we see in nearly every future star's second season. He looked very good in our first preseason game the other night – and most importantly, he looked like he wanted to be the best player on the court – so I don't think the numbers of the past are going to mean much for this season and beyond, but Scottie did very little last season to warrant an increased role.

Brother I appreciate the data but you did not need to type all of that. I started off with saying Scottie was dog **** last year lol. We’re in agreement.

I just don’t think last year is the end all be all. Team was ass, chemistry ass, players clearly didn’t like playing for Nurse or for each other.

Like you pointed out, his efficiency barely dropped in his rookie year, I just want people to remember that when bringing up data solely from last year.

[pingpongrac]

Not sure why there’s a blame game going on. FVV and Scottie were both dog **** last year. Scottie was immature and FVV’s body just broke down on him. That’s why you don’t ask average players to play at an all star level, their bodies can’t maintain that level of load on them.

This whole narrative that Scottie can’t play well without Siakam or FVV is also silly.

Scottie averaged 16.5/8/3 and shot 53% from the FG without Siakam. Averaged 15.5/7.5/4 and shot 50% FG without FVV. This was his rookie year where the sample size was larger than last years sample size. Do we just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn’t play well without one of them ? Of course not.

No, but you also don't completely ignore the data (and what everyone saw) from last season either.

21/22
With Siakam: 1849 MIN, 800 PTS (55.9 TS%)
Without Siakam: 870 MIN, 379 PTS (54.3 TS%)

With FVV: 1723 MIN, 762 PTS (55.5 TS%)
Without FVV: 996 MIN, 417 PTS (55.4 TS%)

With both: 1146 MIN, 496 PTS (56.1 TS%)
Without both: 293 MIN, 113 PTS (54.3 TS%)

22/23
With Siakam: 1746 MIN, 788 PTS (55.3 TS%)
Without Siakam: 807 MIN, 336 PTS (46.8 TS%)

With FVV: 1674 MIN, 787 PTS (55.6 TS%)
Without FVV: 879, 337 PTS (46.3 TS%)

With both: 1247 MIN, 612 PTS (58.6 TS%)
Without both: 380 MIN, 161 PTS (46.5 TS%)

Scottie struggled mightily without Siakam and/or FVV last season and he often just deferred to other (worse) players in those minutes, which was disappointing considering what we saw from him in limited minutes as "the guy" or option #2 in his rookie season. The sample sizes (with/without Siakam, with/without FVV, with/without both) are damn near identical in both his rookie and sophomore seasons too, so the argument that the sample size in his rookie season holds more weight is false. The only notable difference in any of those sample sizes was ~100 more minutes (or an increase of 30%) without both Siakam and FVV last season in large part due to the fact that he just played a bit more minutes overall.

We have ~3500 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing with Siakam or FVV – and ~2400 minutes with both – where he scores more on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 56 to 57 range whereas we have ~1800 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing without Siakam or FVV – and ~700 minutes without both – where he scores less on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 50 to 51 range. One should expect a drop-off in a player's efficiency when he (who was typically the 3rd/4th option) is playing without one or two of the best offensive players on his team, but the difference we saw in Scottie last season with/without Siakam and/or FVV was stark. A bit of it can be chalked up to the fact that he was hobbled and just off for most of the first ~30 games last year (which was also during a time where a large chunk of minutes came without Siakam and/or FVV), but more than anything Scottie just didn't improve enough over his first offseason to keep up with the league. It was a let-down because of the high expectations that a lot of people had for Scottie last season, but it's something we see in nearly every future star's second season. He looked very good in our first preseason game the other night – and most importantly, he looked like he wanted to be the best player on the court – so I don't think the numbers of the past are going to mean much for this season and beyond, but Scottie did very little last season to warrant an increased role.

Brother I appreciate the data but you did not need to type all of that. I started off with saying Scottie was dog **** last year lol. We’re in agreement.

I just don’t think last year is the end all be all. Team was ass, chemistry ass, players clearly didn’t like playing for Nurse or for each other.

Like you pointed out, his efficiency barely dropped in his rookie year, I just want people to remember that when bringing up data solely from last year.

It wasn't just in response to you. My first sentence was basically the only reason I quoted you lol. I just wanted some data out there so people who wanted a bigger role for Scottie last season can see just how badly he fell off without Siakam/FVV.

You can want more touches for Scottie and his development, but just know that means significantly less wins last season. And while that may have been better in the long run, the FO decided to go for it and try to compete, so there is no point in arguing what could/should have been lol.

[Madvillainy2004]

I remain surprised at all these complaints that Scottie should’ve gotten the ball more last year. He very clearly lacked the skill development to be any kind of offensive hub.

Hopefully, this year will be different. Hopefully, his handle will be tighter and he’ll be able to create a shot off the bounce. Either way, Scottie needs to earn his reps and I think he will eventually. We just have to have some patience. We drafted Scottie not Cade.

Scottie has never been a guy that's never been a first option hub even dating back to highschool and at FSU was their back up PG (tho he played a lot still). My whole thesis wasn't trying to write him off as a player. Tons of guys that had good rookie years struggled as sophomores (Ja and Tatum for a couple recent examples). But last season he just wasn't all that good with the increased opportunity. And just forcing him to be a 20 8 guy on 46-47 TS% isn't great for his development imo. Well maybe if Masai decided to tank but based on everything that's been said about the team they were trying to win and Fred/Siakam were superior offensive players last year. And they traded for more help with Yak at the deadline. So that was never in the cards anyways.

This year I expect a leap and his first preseason game was an A+ and I'm still super high on him as a prospect. I think he's the best Raps prospect since Vince Carter. But the whispers of him not working seriously enough and Masai having to talk to him made me a tad skeptical and he had long stretches of just poor play. I'm willing to put all that under the bridge and hoping his effort/conditioning is engaged enough that he takes that big 3rd year leap and it looks promising so far.

[HumbleRen]

No, but you also don't completely ignore the data (and what everyone saw) from last season either.

21/22
With Siakam: 1849 MIN, 800 PTS (55.9 TS%)
Without Siakam: 870 MIN, 379 PTS (54.3 TS%)

With FVV: 1723 MIN, 762 PTS (55.5 TS%)
Without FVV: 996 MIN, 417 PTS (55.4 TS%)

With both: 1146 MIN, 496 PTS (56.1 TS%)
Without both: 293 MIN, 113 PTS (54.3 TS%)

22/23
With Siakam: 1746 MIN, 788 PTS (55.3 TS%)
Without Siakam: 807 MIN, 336 PTS (46.8 TS%)

With FVV: 1674 MIN, 787 PTS (55.6 TS%)
Without FVV: 879, 337 PTS (46.3 TS%)

With both: 1247 MIN, 612 PTS (58.6 TS%)
Without both: 380 MIN, 161 PTS (46.5 TS%)

Scottie struggled mightily without Siakam and/or FVV last season and he often just deferred to other (worse) players in those minutes, which was disappointing considering what we saw from him in limited minutes as "the guy" or option #2 in his rookie season. The sample sizes (with/without Siakam, with/without FVV, with/without both) are damn near identical in both his rookie and sophomore seasons too, so the argument that the sample size in his rookie season holds more weight is false. The only notable difference in any of those sample sizes was ~100 more minutes (or an increase of 30%) without both Siakam and FVV last season in large part due to the fact that he just played a bit more minutes overall.

We have ~3500 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing with Siakam or FVV – and ~2400 minutes with both – where he scores more on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 56 to 57 range whereas we have ~1800 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing without Siakam or FVV – and ~700 minutes without both – where he scores less on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 50 to 51 range. One should expect a drop-off in a player's efficiency when he (who was typically the 3rd/4th option) is playing without one or two of the best offensive players on his team, but the difference we saw in Scottie last season with/without Siakam and/or FVV was stark. A bit of it can be chalked up to the fact that he was hobbled and just off for most of the first ~30 games last year (which was also during a time where a large chunk of minutes came without Siakam and/or FVV), but more than anything Scottie just didn't improve enough over his first offseason to keep up with the league. It was a let-down because of the high expectations that a lot of people had for Scottie last season, but it's something we see in nearly every future star's second season. He looked very good in our first preseason game the other night – and most importantly, he looked like he wanted to be the best player on the court – so I don't think the numbers of the past are going to mean much for this season and beyond, but Scottie did very little last season to warrant an increased role.

Brother I appreciate the data but you did not need to type all of that. I started off with saying Scottie was dog **** last year lol. We’re in agreement.

I just don’t think last year is the end all be all. Team was ass, chemistry ass, players clearly didn’t like playing for Nurse or for each other.

Like you pointed out, his efficiency barely dropped in his rookie year, I just want people to remember that when bringing up data solely from last year.

It wasn't just in response to you. My first sentence was basically the only reason I quoted you lol. I just wanted some data out there so people who wanted a bigger role for Scottie last season can see just how badly he fell off without Siakam/FVV.

You can want more touches for Scottie and his development, but just know that means significantly less wins last season. And while that may have been better in the long run, the FO decided to go for it and try to compete, so there is no point in arguing what could/should have been lol.

I think most people who want more usage and touches for Scottie acknowledge that the team will not be better for it. Atleast I hope so.

With FVV gone, Scottie and us fans who’ve been wanting him in this role virtually have no excuse now. If he isn’t capable of being a 2nd scoring option on a play in caliber team then people have to seriously reevaluate what Scottie Barnes is in the NBA and what that means going forward for this franchise.

[Tha Cynic]

Not sure why there’s a blame game going on. FVV and Scottie were both dog **** last year. Scottie was immature and FVV’s body just broke down on him. That’s why you don’t ask average players to play at an all star level, their bodies can’t maintain that level of load on them.

This whole narrative that Scottie can’t play well without Siakam or FVV is also silly.

Scottie averaged 16.5/8/3 and shot 53% from the FG without Siakam. Averaged 15.5/7.5/4 and shot 50% FG without FVV. This was his rookie year where the sample size was larger than last years sample size. Do we just throw out that data and automatically say he doesn’t play well without one of them ? Of course not.

No, but you also don't completely ignore the data (and what everyone saw) from last season either.

21/22
With Siakam: 1849 MIN, 800 PTS (55.9 TS%)
Without Siakam: 870 MIN, 379 PTS (54.3 TS%)

With FVV: 1723 MIN, 762 PTS (55.5 TS%)
Without FVV: 996 MIN, 417 PTS (55.4 TS%)

With both: 1146 MIN, 496 PTS (56.1 TS%)
Without both: 293 MIN, 113 PTS (54.3 TS%)

22/23
With Siakam: 1746 MIN, 788 PTS (55.3 TS%)
Without Siakam: 807 MIN, 336 PTS (46.8 TS%)

With FVV: 1674 MIN, 787 PTS (55.6 TS%)
Without FVV: 879, 337 PTS (46.3 TS%)

With both: 1247 MIN, 612 PTS (58.6 TS%)
Without both: 380 MIN, 161 PTS (46.5 TS%)

Scottie struggled mightily without Siakam and/or FVV last season and he often just deferred to other (worse) players in those minutes, which was disappointing considering what we saw from him in limited minutes as "the guy" or option #2 in his rookie season. The sample sizes (with/without Siakam, with/without FVV, with/without both) are damn near identical in both his rookie and sophomore seasons too, so the argument that the sample size in his rookie season holds more weight is false. The only notable difference in any of those sample sizes was ~100 more minutes (or an increase of 30%) without both Siakam and FVV last season in large part due to the fact that he just played a bit more minutes overall.

We have ~3500 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing with Siakam or FVV – and ~2400 minutes with both – where he scores more on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 56 to 57 range whereas we have ~1800 minutes of data and tape on Scottie playing without Siakam or FVV – and ~700 minutes without both – where he scores less on a per-minute basis with a TS% in the 50 to 51 range. One should expect a drop-off in a player's efficiency when he (who was typically the 3rd/4th option) is playing without one or two of the best offensive players on his team, but the difference we saw in Scottie last season with/without Siakam and/or FVV was stark. A bit of it can be chalked up to the fact that he was hobbled and just off for most of the first ~30 games last year (which was also during a time where a large chunk of minutes came without Siakam and/or FVV), but more than anything Scottie just didn't improve enough over his first offseason to keep up with the league. It was a let-down because of the high expectations that a lot of people had for Scottie last season, but it's something we see in nearly every future star's second season. He looked very good in our first preseason game the other night – and most importantly, he looked like he wanted to be the best player on the court – so I don't think the numbers of the past are going to mean much for this season and beyond, but Scottie did very little last season to warrant an increased role.

Brother I appreciate the data but you did not need to type all of that. I started off with saying Scottie was dog **** last year lol. We’re in agreement.

I just don’t think last year is the end all be all. Team was ass, chemistry ass, players clearly didn’t like playing for Nurse or for each other.

Like you pointed out, his efficiency barely dropped in his rookie year, I just want people to remember that when bringing up data solely from last year.

In addition - at some point we have to put human component to this and stop looking at this so black and white as if these guys are robots.

What happens to said player if he's given free reign and playing a style more suited to him rather than in a system that clearly is not a system that's suitable for him. How does the team change around him if they know he's a main ball handler and how does his game change as a main ballhandler?

You can't just take small samples during injuries and project how the player and team will play as a whole for a season. It will be drastically different. This is something I and others here have had difficulty explaining to the small handful who still pull these arbitrary stats. There is a reason why people bring up "reps". It's not just "reps" for said player, but also "reps" for the entire team and coaching staff to adjust.

I have a strong belief that the style Barnes would play vs the FVV/Siakam style is drastically different and will have a huge impact on the overall team.

The good thing is, the President of Basketball operations, the new coach and Scottie Barnes all seem to be aligned on how they want to play.

We can throw all the garbage from last year out. Expect a different GTJ also. Just because he sucked off the bench as the excel files will say, does not mean he will suck this year in this new system with players who are playing together.

Also, Siakam and FVV both had below average TS%. Why is this even used as an argument to argue against Scottie Barnes? FVV shoots the 3 which is heavily skewed positively in the formula, so he should theoretically have an easier chance of achieving a better TS%, but he still struggled.

[tsherkin]

I think most people who want more usage and touches for Scottie acknowledge that the team will not be better for it. Atleast I hope so.

With FVV gone, Scottie and us fans who’ve been wanting him in this role virtually have no excuse now. If he isn’t capable of being a 2nd scoring option on a play in caliber team then people have to seriously reevaluate what Scottie Barnes is in the NBA and what that means going forward for this franchise.

We were a .500 team last year and haven't improved, so yeah, I think this is a pretty clear development year. Giving touches to Scottie to see if he can improve is probably the best long-term course we can take at the moment. Shy of a random conjunction of player improvement, we don't have the offensive tools to do much this year, and we aren't exactly racking up records on D, either.

But yeah, knowing that it likely isn't going to lead to an improvement on O unless Scottie takes a major leap, it seems important to let out the leash a little and see what he's got for the sake of evaluating him going forward.

[canada_dry]

Samson finally put his analysis for "i watched every scottie pick and roll" on video.

Watch on YouTube

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[pingpongrac]

Brother I appreciate the data but you did not need to type all of that. I started off with saying Scottie was dog **** last year lol. We’re in agreement.

I just don’t think last year is the end all be all. Team was ass, chemistry ass, players clearly didn’t like playing for Nurse or for each other.

Like you pointed out, his efficiency barely dropped in his rookie year, I just want people to remember that when bringing up data solely from last year.

It wasn't just in response to you. My first sentence was basically the only reason I quoted you lol. I just wanted some data out there so people who wanted a bigger role for Scottie last season can see just how badly he fell off without Siakam/FVV.

You can want more touches for Scottie and his development, but just know that means significantly less wins last season. And while that may have been better in the long run, the FO decided to go for it and try to compete, so there is no point in arguing what could/should have been lol.

I think most people who want more usage and touches for Scottie acknowledge that the team will not be better for it. Atleast I hope so.

With FVV gone, Scottie and us fans who’ve been wanting him in this role virtually have no excuse now. If he isn’t capable of being a 2nd scoring option on a play in caliber team then people have to seriously reevaluate what Scottie Barnes is in the NBA and what that means going forward for this franchise.

I think what gets lost (or misunderstood) on this forum is that I also want/think Scottie can do a lot more for our offence. That post-ASB run in 2022 starting with 28 points in Charlotte then capped off with his insane 31/17/6 line against the Lakers (which ironically was 13 games lol) was a glimpse into the future. He started off his rookie season very well too, but it wasn't until late February/early March where he really started to take a step. I thought we'd see a similar Scottie last season (one that was taking 15+ shots per game and initiating the offence a fair bit), but it became increasingly obvious that he didn't put in enough off-season work and just wasn't ready for that role in such a short time.

I'm of the belief that you don't put all of your eggs in one basket (Scottie) and just hope that it all works out in the future; you give it some more time and let things come together (like Scottie spending this offseason working on his conditioning, handle and shot or the departure of Nurse/FVV resulting in a new coaching staff and system, etc.) more organically. In the end, I am still a very big fan of Scottie and think he can be a dominant player for years to come if he wants it enough. This season isn't quite make or break for me, but I think it's enough to know if he's just going to be a good role player or an all-star – or potentially a superstar.

[MoMan24]

I remain surprised at all these complaints that Scottie should’ve gotten the ball more last year. He very clearly lacked the skill development to be any kind of offensive hub.

Hopefully, this year will be different. Hopefully, his handle will be tighter and he’ll be able to create a shot off the bounce. Either way, Scottie needs to earn his reps and I think he will eventually. We just have to have some patience. We drafted Scottie not Cade.

Scottie has never been a guy that's never been a first option hub even dating back to highschool and at FSU was their back up PG (tho he played a lot still). My whole thesis wasn't trying to write him off as a player. Tons of guys that had good rookie years struggled as sophomores (Ja and Tatum for a couple recent examples). But last season he just wasn't all that good with the increased opportunity. And just forcing him to be a 20 8 guy on 46-47 TS% isn't great for his development imo. Well maybe if Masai decided to tank but based on everything that's been said about the team they were trying to win and Fred/Siakam were superior offensive players last year. And they traded for more help with Yak at the deadline. So that was never in the cards anyways.

This year I expect a leap and his first preseason game was an A+ and I'm still super high on him as a prospect. I think he's the best Raps prospect since Vince Carter. But the whispers of him not working seriously enough and Masai having to talk to him made me a tad skeptical and he had long stretches of just poor play. I'm willing to put all that under the bridge and hoping his effort/conditioning is engaged enough that he takes that big 3rd year leap and it looks promising so far.

These 'whispers' came from our lazy vulture like media who quoted David Thorpe on Will Lou's show who admitted to now knowing Scottie personally or how hard he works. Also Masai had several talks with players 1v1 last season but the media pointed it out with Scottie and gave it a negative light. Everyone including Scottie wanted a better year from him last season. But last season gave me zero pause. The coaching, the leadership, the culture was rotten to the core. That's why Darko is here, Jama is back, Temple is here and Masai is doubling down on how selfish the team was. First Preseason game confirms my beliefs.