Raptors should announce retiring Vince Carter's jersey soon

[Zeno]

I’ve changed my mind on this. I’d rather not retire it.

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

[Drakeem]

It's always funny to me that we're going to probably retire his jersey here when someone like Carmelo stayed for longer with Denver, had more success with Denver, had a less ugly departure (Nuggets definitely got more out of the trade request) and yet ownership was very much of the opinion that no, we're not going to put that legacy in the rafters.

I guess they have higher standards. We are the Raptors fanbase, we celebrate losing and Carter allowed us to be recognized by
US media.

As many have mentioned in this thread, Toronto wasn't even on the map and Carter helped give us exposure and validate us Canadians by putting us on American television.

I say put his jersey up there. He didn't represent winning or leadership but did help us to get exposure and be liked by Americans at that time. He put us on the map. Perhaps a future Raptor player will see his jersey up there and use it as a symbolic gesture one day as an inspiration to emulate Carter's leadership, attitude and success.

I think if you line up Team Canada (SGA, Murray, Brooks, Alexander-Walker, Olynyk, etc) at the eventual ceremony, we all would see what VC has done to this Country. I haven't looked, but I'm also willing to bet that most are born and grew up with the GTA, which is not a coincidence. No one remembered the dark times Vancouver is having with Grizzlies, they never found 'VC' and eventually the city lost the team.

Instead we look at how VC behaved for the few months while he asked out, he was probably mid to going to late 20s' and wanted to win, while we drafted Chris Bosh and is looking to retool/rebuild.

It's not about how he left fully. He also just didn't accomplish much. He went to the 2nd round once, won a dunk contest, and another first round appearance or two. He didn't spend a long period of time like a Garnett either. By almost any metric, his career doesn't land him a jersey retirement for any other franchise. I understand that being our first real star elevates his status a bit, but we gotta pump the brakes on this one.

Let him go to the Hall of Fame to talk about his contribution to basketball in Canada. His contributions to the Raptors team as a whole isn't all that much.

[Reeko]

I’ve changed my mind on this. I’d rather not retire it.

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

[C_Money]

It’s a super controversial subject and I think they won’t do it for that reason. The fans are already pissed at the basketball decision lately. Don’t need to add more fuel to the fire.

[HiJiNX]

I’ve changed my mind on this. I’d rather not retire it.

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

Yup Lowry and Derozan. Probably Pascal down the line. Maybe Fred (but also maybe not). That’s it at this point. Hopefully Barnes becomes that quality of player and has longevity here.

[_MidNight_]

I say absolutely not. I came to Toronto in 1996 and immediately became a fan of this team as I lived right by union station on the Esplanade.
I lived through the crap this dude put us through on his way out the door and I'm still disgusted to this day. The way he tanked his value and then immediately started playing again when he was a few hrs away in New Jersey will never be forgiven. I'm not going to go over everything he did but my answer will always be no to Wince.

[Corson27]

I’ve changed my mind on this. I’d rather not retire it.

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

One thing I don't see discussed much is that the perception by a subset of fans does not equal perception amongst players. And perception of the franchise by players obviously matters in a players league. Vince is generally well respected amongst the player population (guy was even voted NBA Teammate of the Year by the players) and you have Canadian and American players saying they grew up with his poster on their walls. Masai, Lowry (these guys are close; Kyle literally custom made a golf bag for Vince) and Derozan all have relationships with him. He now has a career in national media covering the NBA and I highly doubt this will be the last time this topic is broached. So what will the perception of the Raptors (not a dig but truthfully probably not considered any sort of prestige franchise outside of Canada) be if they don't honor their "first true superstar" in Larry Tanenbaum's own words?

Our first inclination would be who cares, **** what others think. But organizations care. Businesses care. So, will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

[Kingsway_fan]

Long overdue.

Raise #15 Vince Carter, superstar and GROAT...

[Raptors Realtor]

Carter will be retired along with Lowry, and possibly DeRozan and Siakam... The way Vince left was immature & hurtful to both the fans and the organization. However, he did put the Raptors on the map, he elevated basketball in Canada in terms of fan interest and people playing the sport... His impact on the organization and the sport in Canada in general can't be overstated... Say what you will, he's the closest thing the Raptors have had to a homegrown superstar.

[Reeko]

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

One thing I don't see discussed much is that the perception by a subset of fans does not equal perception amongst players. And perception of the franchise by players obviously matters in a players league. Vince is generally well respected amongst the player population (guy was even voted NBA Teammate of the Year by the players) and you have Canadian and American players saying they grew up with his poster on their walls. Masai, Lowry (these guys are close; Kyle literally custom made a golf bag for Vince) and Derozan all have relationships with him. He now has a career in national media covering the NBA and I highly doubt this will be the last time this topic is broached. So what will the perception of the Raptors (not a dig but truthfully probably not considered any sort of prestige franchise outside of Canada) be if they don't honor their "first true superstar" in Larry Tanenbaum's own words?

Our first inclination would be who cares, **** what others think. But organizations care. Businesses care. So, will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I don't care about how he's viewed by basketball people. The team doesn't belong them. It doesn't belong to Lowry, Masai and not even Larry Tanenbaum. It belongs to the fans, and our collective opinion matters more. And I care even less about the perception of US media, we've never been celebrated by them to begin with so why would I give two **** about how they feel about Vince not getting his jersey retired? What's going to happen? A pending superstar free agent is going to hear about how the franchise "disrespected" Vince and decide that they don't want to sign with Toronto? If he wants to use his platform in the national media to gripe about not having his jersey retired by the Raptors, then that would be truly pathetic. Imagine a grown man trying to whine his way into the rafters.

[C_Money]

I say absolutely not. I came to Toronto in 1996 and immediately became a fan of this team as I lived right by union station on the Esplanade.
I lived through the crap this dude put us through on his way out the door and I'm still disgusted to this day. The way he tanked his value and then immediately started playing again when he was a few hrs away in New Jersey will never be forgiven. I'm not going to go over everything he did but my answer will always be no to Wince.

Yeah if this question was asked back in 2004 it would be a “no chance in hell” response from everybody. In fact his jersey number was given to Garbajosa pretty quickly after he left.

[PerfectJab]

It's always funny to me that we're going to probably retire his jersey here when someone like Carmelo stayed for longer with Denver, had more success with Denver, had a less ugly departure (Nuggets definitely got more out of the trade request) and yet ownership was very much of the opinion that no, we're not going to put that legacy in the rafters.

I guess they have higher standards. We are the Raptors fanbase, we celebrate losing and Carter allowed us to be recognized by
US media.

As many have mentioned in this thread, Toronto wasn't even on the map and Carter helped give us exposure and validate us Canadians by putting us on American television.

I say put his jersey up there. He didn't represent winning or leadership but did help us to get exposure and be liked by Americans at that time. He put us on the map. Perhaps a future Raptor player will see his jersey up there and use it as a symbolic gesture one day as an inspiration to emulate Carter's leadership, attitude and success.

I think if you line up Team Canada (SGA, Murray, Brooks, Alexander-Walker, Olynyk, etc) at the eventual ceremony, we all would see what VC has done to this Country. I haven't looked, but I'm also willing to bet that most are born and grew up with the GTA, which is not a coincidence. No one remembered the dark times Vancouver is having with Grizzlies, they never found 'VC' and eventually the city lost the team.

Instead we look at how VC behaved for the few months while he asked out, he was probably mid to going to late 20s' and wanted to win, while we drafted Chris Bosh and is looking to retool/rebuild.

Carter did that? Wow! Here I thought he was lucky to be the best player at that time on the Canadian basketball team that saw an increase in games shown on Canadian television as a result of there actually being a franchise in Canada. Who would think that being restricted to nationally televised games on NBC vs access to 82 games in a season focusing on one team and its players would lead to a change in exposure.

How can you compare Vancouver to Toronto? Firstly, they are 3.3k km apart so we are not even talking about the same demographics. The population and corporate sponsorship opportunities are not even close. GDP in BC is 281 billion w/ a 5.4 million pop in Van vs 800 billion, 15.4 million pop in Toronto. The only thing that makes them the same is that they are both Canadian.

[Corson27]

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

One thing I don't see discussed much is that the perception by a subset of fans does not equal perception amongst players. And perception of the franchise by players obviously matters in a players league. Vince is generally well respected amongst the player population (guy was even voted NBA Teammate of the Year by the players) and you have Canadian and American players saying they grew up with his poster on their walls. Masai, Lowry (these guys are close; Kyle literally custom made a golf bag for Vince) and Derozan all have relationships with him. He now has a career in national media covering the NBA and I highly doubt this will be the last time this topic is broached. So what will the perception of the Raptors (not a dig but truthfully probably not considered any sort of prestige franchise outside of Canada) be if they don't honor their "first true superstar" in Larry Tanenbaum's own words?

Our first inclination would be who cares, **** what others think. But organizations care. Businesses care. So, will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I don't care about how he's viewed by basketball people. The team doesn't belong them. It doesn't belong to Lowry, Masai and not even Larry Tanenbaum. It belongs to the fans, and our collective opinion matters more. And I care even less about the perception of US media, we've never been celebrated by them to begin with so why would I give two **** about how they feel about Vince not getting his jersey retired? What's going to happen? A pending superstar free agent is going to hear about how the franchise "disrespected" Vince and decide that they don't want to sign with Toronto? If he wants to use his platform in the national media to gripe about not having his jersey retired by the Raptors, then that would be truly pathetic. Imagine a grown man trying to whine his way into the rafters.

As I said, expected response for fans like us. But just in general, the fans don't make decisions when it comes to multi million dollar sports organizations. And sports is littered with teams whose management teams make decisions that definitely do not take a subset of fan sentiment into consideration (see: Toronto Blue Jays, whose fanbase universally hate Ross Atkins, but he keeps doing his own thing regardless). And even with this specific 'honoring' decision, you'd be hardpressed to find universal agreement on this topic amongst fans.

And nah, Carter is not the type to gripe; he does straight boring (often unwatchable because it's so bland) analysis on TV. But I'm sure people will pose the question to him.

[Reeko]

One thing I don't see discussed much is that the perception by a subset of fans does not equal perception amongst players. And perception of the franchise by players obviously matters in a players league. Vince is generally well respected amongst the player population (guy was even voted NBA Teammate of the Year by the players) and you have Canadian and American players saying they grew up with his poster on their walls. Masai, Lowry (these guys are close; Kyle literally custom made a golf bag for Vince) and Derozan all have relationships with him. He now has a career in national media covering the NBA and I highly doubt this will be the last time this topic is broached. So what will the perception of the Raptors (not a dig but truthfully probably not considered any sort of prestige franchise outside of Canada) be if they don't honor their "first true superstar" in Larry Tanenbaum's own words?

Our first inclination would be who cares, **** what others think. But organizations care. Businesses care. So, will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I don't care about how he's viewed by basketball people. The team doesn't belong them. It doesn't belong to Lowry, Masai and not even Larry Tanenbaum. It belongs to the fans, and our collective opinion matters more. And I care even less about the perception of US media, we've never been celebrated by them to begin with so why would I give two **** about how they feel about Vince not getting his jersey retired? What's going to happen? A pending superstar free agent is going to hear about how the franchise "disrespected" Vince and decide that they don't want to sign with Toronto? If he wants to use his platform in the national media to gripe about not having his jersey retired by the Raptors, then that would be truly pathetic. Imagine a grown man trying to whine his way into the rafters.

As I said, expected response for fans like us. But just in general, the fans don't make decisions when it comes to multi million dollar sports organizations. And sports is littered with teams whose management teams make decisions that definitely do not take a subset of fan sentiment into consideration (see: Toronto Blue Jays, whose fanbase universally hate Ross Atkins, but he keeps doing his own thing regardless). And even with this specific 'honoring' decision, you'd be hardpressed to find universal agreement on this topic amongst fans.

And nah, Carter is not the type to gripe; he does straight boring (often unwatchable because it's so bland) analysis on TV. But I'm sure people will pose the question to him.

Whether or not the organization will decide to retire his jersey is pretty much out of our hands, of course Larry and Masai and all the other suits are the ones will ultimately make that decision, whether we like it or not. There is no consensus on the topic, but I would wager that most hardcore fans who have been following the team for the last 20+ years would say NO to Vince's jersey retirement. Most people here are arguing about whether this should or shouldn't happen, if asked will or won't it happen then that's a different story. I just feel very strongly about this, if you want to honor him in some way and recognize his contribution to the sport in Canada that's fine, I'm just not of the opinion that you do that by retiring his jersey.

[Scase]

I don’t mind retiring it eventually but Lowry needs to be first and since he’s still going, I see no problem in waiting to retire his number a few years from now. They can do some nod to him with a city edition jersey if they want.

You can't set that precedent. If you do that then any star that we develop and has any modicum of success will feel entitled to having their jersey retired even if they **** off the franchise and the city. It will be "Well look at how Vince left and they still retired his jersey". Management sucking was an unfortunate reality during Vince's time here, but I don't think it excuses the way he left. It's a no for him and Bosh. It's Lowry and maybe DeRozan who I lean more towards having his jersey retired. Nobody else at this point, not even Kawhi as legendary as he is in this city.

Yup Lowry and Derozan. Probably Pascal down the line. Maybe Fred (but also maybe not). That’s it at this point. Hopefully Barnes becomes that quality of player and has longevity here.

Retiring FVVs would be the most pathetic thing the franchise could do lol. I don't even think DD deserves to have his retired, but at least I can see the argument some people make for it. But FVV?

[SpezNc]

I think there is argument for both Retiring and not retiring.

I am definitely in the Team Retiring because IMO it’s important that we recognize players with a Legacy. For me VC an a huge impact .

But I understand it’s not a slam dunk decision because of all the history .

I even suspect it’s not unanimous in the Raptors front office . Would not be surprise if some members in the FO are against and some are in favours .

But I am surprised that this position is seen as highly controversial by some. So much there is an Anti VC Bench Mob.

To illustrate my point , I recently create an account on Reddit. Took me a while to be able to post on Raptors board because there is some milestone we need to hit before posting (days and upvotes)

I got downvoted (double digit ) because I was in the opinion that VC should get his jersey retired and his recent comments does not change a thing for me. Result : I can’t write any more on that Reddit Raptors board because my post was downvoted so much that I am now below the threshold to comments.

It’s quite annoying but I will survive haha . The sun will rise tomorrow.

But it’s looking like “Team Do NOT retired” has a super hyper strong and loud opinion.

I am curious if that’s the case on a larger population scale

[rapluva]

For the ones who don't remember.. VC put the Raptors on the NBA map. Raptors were selling out arenas in all 30 cities.. yes it was to see Vince dunk the basketball.. but it was more than that.. the team itself was half decent as well..

Antonio Davis
Kevin Willis
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carter
Mugsy Bogues
Dell Curry
Charles Oakley
Morris Peterson
Alvin Williams
Keon Clark

This team was making a noise..and it was when Kobe and Shaq were on the Lakers.. Raptors were sold out..and mainly because of Vince putting on a show. He deserves to have his jersey retired.. but honestly..it seems Brooklyn will be doing it before us. Also.. fans are so obsessed with Lowry.. yes he deserves to have his jersey retired..but dude .. he really didn't want to be in Toronto at one point.. and I keep saying if 2019 doesn't happen.. would the fans still retire Lowrys jersey.. I felt the tone changed after the championship.. I'm not talking about the tone of fans..but Lowry himself.

[kalel123]

I say absolutely not. I came to Toronto in 1996 and immediately became a fan of this team as I lived right by union station on the Esplanade.
I lived through the crap this dude put us through on his way out the door and I'm still disgusted to this day. The way he tanked his value and then immediately started playing again when he was a few hrs away in New Jersey will never be forgiven. I'm not going to go over everything he did but my answer will always be no to Wince.

Wholeheartedly agree. Not sure how you can just sweep this part under the rug if you actually lived through the entire experience. The negative happened just as much as the positive, it is real, just as prominent and more recent. At some point, you just shrug and move on but not when it comes to something like a jersey retirement.

[grimlock]

I said it before and I'll say it again. At the time, our franchise was run by a bunch of clowns. If I were him, and we drafted Araujo, and hired Kevin Oniel / Sam Mitchell, I'd be calling my agent every day demanding my way out, and if that didn't work I'd just call in sick or stop dunking. Ya, professional athletes get paid millions, but they are also not free to leave whenever they want or quit a bad situation like us plebs. Everyone's holding onto their childhood / teen feelings of betrayal by their hero and need to let it go and look at it like an adult. Our franchise was a poorly run, amateur hour joke.

If we had the management, facilities and culture we do now, Vince would have never left.

[Fairview4Life]

and I keep saying if 2019 doesn't happen..

Let me stop you right there. The thing is, 2019 did happen.